Greatest center

[Landsberger]

Kareem. Not close in my book. Look at the season he had at age 38. Showtime for 3.25 quarters and Cap to close.

[PKABOOICU]

Shaq.
just too dominant. He would eat a rail thin Kareem.
definitely not Russell. He's the most overrated player ever.
Hakeem comes 2nd.

If all those centers played at the same time, every opponents game plan would be against Shaq. There was just no way around the big fella.

[MAMBAEMD]

Kareem.
Hakeem is next for me.
Shaq a close third.

I never saw Russel play.

[gts1]

Shaq.
just too dominant. He would eat a rail thin Kareem.
definitely not Russell. He's the most overrated player ever.
Hakeem comes 2nd.

If all those centers played at the same time, every opponents game plan would be against Shaq. There was just no way around the big fella.

no he wouldn't, Kareem was no pushover, smart smart defender and he'd eat Shaq alive on offense... a lot of great players tried to stop Kareem over his career and nobody ever did... they might have a good game against him now and then but in the end Kareem always prevailed

and his longevity at the top of the game... 2 decades of dominance, never came into camp out of shape, continually improved his game...

[AcecardZ]

Kareem... he was too good for too long.

Kind of interesting there was no Wilt Chamberlain option.

[Beethoven]

Shaq hands down. Also believe it or not, shaq has an arsenal of finesse moves more than Kareem.
Two different eras. Guys were lankier and weaker then, also I don't care about longevity, stats, or legacy. I gauge on the most prime center against the most prime center in one 7 games series. Winner takes all.
Sorry but shaq would destroy them all.






Yeah,if we're talking about greatest in terms of most famous, perhaps Kareem.
Most infamous?? Shaq Diesel

[XXBKXX]

If they're all in their prime... It has to be Shaq..easily... Shaq was so dominant that the NBA had to change the rules just to give the rest of the league a chance to guard against him... I've never seen someone dominate/impact a game the way Shaq did in his prime. He's so disruptive...we would start games by going inside to shaq first few possessions and the opposing center would be on the bench in foul trouble within two mins.. this would then open the lanes for our offense as the opposing teams best rim defender would be out of the game.

Personally, I think Duncan playing as PF his whole career was a response to Shaq.. Pop didn't want Duncan in foul trouble so they would stick some random body at center to foul shaq while Duncan roamed around as a PF.. Then he tried to guard Shaq at the end of games when they were forced to..

I'm a Kobe guy but Shaqs fingerptints on a game was more impactful.. Even in today's style of play. Shaq would force the Dubbs to change change their approach.. Imagine them trying to have Draymond guard Shaq...

With that said, Shaq's biggest foe was himself.. He could have been the GOAT if he had half the drive Kobe had and kept his body in pristine condition....that coupled with his emo-ness were eventually his downfall

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

[Tzar]

It's Kareem, and it's not even close. There's a legitimate debate to had over whether Kareem is the GOAT, period. I think that if you could draft any player in the history of professional basketball and get their entire career as it played out, it would hands down be Kareem. The peak production is right there with any player in history. Longevity. Winner. Top-two offensive player ever. Top-five defensive anchor in his prime. He was a perfect basketball player.

MJ might have had a better 6-year peak (and that's even arguable). But, Kareem was legit dominate/beyond Hall of Fame good for 12 straight seasons. And he was Hall of Fame good for the next five seasons. And, to be that productive at age 38, at that height, with all of the minutes that he played in his career, particualrly in a time when medicine/training were not even close to where they are today, is astounding.

It's actually kind of a shame that he's constantly overlooked as a legit candidate for GOAT. All of the superlatives in the English language would not do justice to how great of a basketball player Kareem was.

[dAdo dA dEvil]

Kareem!

While Shaq is probably the most dominant big basketball is not just about physicality and strength. Smarts counts too and that is there where I think Kareem has the edge.

And people seems to forget that Kareem has the "most difficult shot to stop" in his arsenal. The sky hook.

[Landsberger]

As a more seasoned member of the board I would point you to the seasons/games where an aging Kareem played Houston with Hakeem and Sampson. He averaged over 38 against them one year in 6 games.

As for Shaq, Free throws. Replace Kareem with Shaq on those showtime teams and no one closes those games. Shaq is stoppable late in games Kareem wasn't. Phil Jackson used to take Shaq off the floor in 1 and 2 point games on offensive possessions. That never happened to Kareem.

I also don't think Kareem would have ever yelled "pay me" to Dr. Buss and I know he wouldn't have waited until it was "company time" to get surgery after an offseason of eating everything in sight. Shaq was great but let's not forget the whole package. Greatest ever's don't play for 5 teams.

[Kilroy]

Fairly certain maybe only one person on this forum is old enough to have seen prime Kareem... Even I didn't... Prime Kareem didn't play for the Lakers... Neither did prime Wilt...

If Wilt had better competition in his prime, I'm fairly certain this wouldn't even be a question... Wilt had maybe the best combination of athletic ability and skills of any Center ever... Maybe of any NBA player ever... He was like a 7' MJ...
He just never was forced to use more than about 40% of them... Kareem was the only player that ever pushed him one on one... Russell's super teams were a lot batter but Kareem and Wilt crushed Russell individually.

When people talk about "Prime Shaq" they're pretty much thinking of '00-'01 Shaq... And rightly so... For that season and maybe that season only, Shaq was maybe the most dominant NBA player since Wilt. But he never really reached that level of dominance before or after... He was still dominant as hell, but before that season, he was a little streaky and after that, he never put the effort in for a whole season again...

00-01 Shaq vs Bucks Kareem would have been a hell of a battle... Kareem was a hell of a lot stronger than he looked. I have no doubt his strength coupled with his superior skills would allow him to post Shaq and Skyhook over him at will. Especially if they played with 00-01 rules.
On the other hand, Shaq could wear him down and eventually it would probably be a dunk line...

But Kareem was a better basketball player. So I'd go with him. Kareem is probably the best all around basketball player the C position has ever seen. And I doubt will ever see anything like him again.

Shaq was a physical freak of nature and immovable force... We probably won't see anything like him again either, but like Wilt, he seemed to get a little bored with the grind.

[Beethoven]

I've never seen anyone else in history have an entire team (quintiple-team) swarm a player when he had the ball and then still dunk on that crowd.
Shaq is the only one. And multiple times I have seen this phenomenon.

[NBAWestFan]

I would say for the career it was Kareem.

Players in their Prime it would be Hakeem.

Dominated the Paint Shaq


Hate to point the negatives but it has to be.

Hakeem was in the best condition out of these three. He was the Best Defensive Player in his Prime.
Kareem was probably the best college defensive Center.
Shaq could not run up the court fast enough.

Both Kareem and Shaq had conditioning issues.
Wilt did not play in the right Era. It played with a alot of small guys that were not that athletic.

Kareem and Hakeem I believe had the better finese moves. Kareem had the hook and Hakeem perfected Kareems move and
had a good jumper.

Kareem and Hakeem could make free throws in a high percentage while Shaq could not.
Hack a Shaq was kinda embarrassing and runied the flow of the game.

Shaq Dominated the paint but was not the best rebounder for his size.


They were all dominating in someway.

But for the Career It would be Kareem

But for one game or a series in their prime it would be Hakeem the Dream.
He had a better motor and this can be proven in the Houston sweep of Orlando in the finals.

Hakeem just flat out played Shaq. He stayed Hungry while Shaq lack the condtiioning too.

A Wilt vs Hakeem would have been more interesting to see.
That is the match-up I would rather watch.

[Landsberger]

Fairly certain maybe only one person on this forum is old enough to have seen prime Kareem... Even I didn't... Prime Kareem didn't play for the Lakers... Neither did prime Wilt...

If Wilt had better competition in his prime, I'm fairly certain this wouldn't even be a question... Wilt had maybe the best combination of athletic ability and skills of any Center ever... Maybe of any NBA player ever... He was like a 7' MJ...
He just never was forced to use more than about 40% of them... Kareem was the only player that ever pushed him one on one... Russell's super teams were a lot batter but Kareem and Wilt crushed Russell individually.

When people talk about "Prime Shaq" they're pretty much thinking of '00-'01 Shaq... And rightly so... For that season and maybe that season only, Shaq was maybe the most dominant NBA player since Wilt. But he never really reached that level of dominance before or after... He was still dominant as hell, but before that season, he was a little streaky and after that, he never put the effort in for a whole season again...

00-01 Shaq vs Bucks Kareem would have been a hell of a battle... Kareem was a hell of a lot stronger than he looked. I have no doubt his strength coupled with his superior skills would allow him to post Shaq and Skyhook over him at will. Especially if they played with 00-01 rules.
On the other hand, Shaq could wear him down and eventually it would probably be a dunk line...

But Kareem was a better basketball player. So I'd go with him. Kareem is probably the best all around basketball player the C position has ever seen. And I doubt will ever see anything like him again.

Shaq was a physical freak of nature and immovable force... We probably won't see anything like him again either, but like Wilt, he seemed to get a little bored with the grind.

I started following the NBA in 72 when I was 7. I saw him play in his prime both live as a kid in LA and on TV. He used to coast to 30-15 nights looking bored. Earlier in his career he used to shoot the skyhook from 2 to 3 feet off the floor down into the hoop at times. There is a youtube of him sinking a game winning 17 foot Skyhook against Boston in the Finals where he showed his athleticism. You have to remember that in those days centers were not trained to be much more than a back to the basket players and push other guys around. He had very advanced fundamentals compared to almost all front court players. To this day I'll debate anyone that Kareem was a better ball handler than Worthy.

I think his most impressive stretch was later in his career when the media kept putting every new center in the league up as the one taking the torch from him. I almost felt sorry for Hakeem and Sampson... at age 38 he dropped over 40 on them 2 times(46 and 43) and 35 a 3rd time. The year before he averaged over 30 against them in 6 games. As athletic as both of those guys were they had no answer. One was quicker and more athletic (especially by that time) and one was taller and longer. Neither had an answer. He had some little quips after the games as well about it's not their time yet. He had a "streak" in him as well. You never got him mad because he'd go off. He was probably the best "mad" player I've ever seen. If focused him like nothing else.

[Landsberger]

Both Kareem and Shaq had conditioning issues.

How did you come to this conclusion? Kareem played in the 3 in a row days (they played 82 in 6 week shorter seasons) and averaged 40 minutes a game in his first 10 seasons.

Shaq had one season at over 40 minutes in the era where back to back was a big deal. Hakeem only had one season over 40 minutes as well.

Kareem was in fantastic condition. Shaq got fat and started breaking down in his early 30's

Shaq at 32 played 34 minutes and scored 22 pts. Kareem at 38 played played 33.4 minutes and averaged 23.4 At 38 Shaq was done and Hakeem was playing 26 minutes getting 12 ppg.

Kareem took care of his body and stayed in shape year round back when few did. I'd say Kareem was every bit as well conditioned as Hakeem at the same ages.

[AcecardZ]

The only time Kareem was ever accused of having conditioning issues was when he was in his late 30's playing in the fastest paced offense in the league.

Kareem had to be in the best shape of any 7'2" player to ever play the game. His longevity was unbelievable!!! Even Kobe couldn't match Kareem's longevity and Kobe was an extreme fitness freak!

[NBAWestFan]

Both Kareem and Shaq had conditioning issues.

How did you come to this conclusion? Kareem played in the 3 in a row days (they played 82 in 6 week shorter seasons) and averaged 40 minutes a game in his first 10 seasons.

Shaq had one season at over 40 minutes in the era where back to back was a big deal. Hakeem only had one season over 40 minutes as well.

Kareem was in fantastic condition. Shaq got fat and started breaking down in his early 30's

Shaq at 32 played 34 minutes and scored 22 pts. Kareem at 38 played played 33.4 minutes and averaged 23.4 At 38 Shaq was done and Hakeem was playing 26 minutes getting 12 ppg.

Kareem took care of his body and stayed in shape year round back when few did. I'd say Kareem was every bit as well conditioned as Hakeem at the same ages.

Watched him play for years he was no where near the motor of a Hakeem.
He played a lot and did great but did not have the intensity of a Hakeem.

I watched them all play and Kareem played a half court game.
He did not have the stamina of Hakeem.

[VIPER8382]

Stop living in the past, it is Brook Lopez.

Just having some fun, not making fun as I think Lopez is elite in today's NBA, but nowhere close to the greats of course.

It is really hard to compare eras due to the fact that we don't know how Kareem would have turned out if he would have turned 20 in the nineties. We don't know if Kareem would have become more physically dominant and just as skilled, been basically the same player, or been more physically dominant, but lost skill. It is even possible that he would have devoted more time to basketball and been more skilled and more physically dominant, or become a great piano player, who knows.

As it is, I would take Shaq over Kareem regardless of Era, but feel Kareem was more dominant in his. There were far more centers that were very close to Shaq than there were close to Kareem. So there is my ambiguous answer.

[Landsberger]

Both Kareem and Shaq had conditioning issues.

How did you come to this conclusion? Kareem played in the 3 in a row days (they played 82 in 6 week shorter seasons) and averaged 40 minutes a game in his first 10 seasons.

Shaq had one season at over 40 minutes in the era where back to back was a big deal. Hakeem only had one season over 40 minutes as well.

Kareem was in fantastic condition. Shaq got fat and started breaking down in his early 30's

Shaq at 32 played 34 minutes and scored 22 pts. Kareem at 38 played played 33.4 minutes and averaged 23.4 At 38 Shaq was done and Hakeem was playing 26 minutes getting 12 ppg.

Kareem took care of his body and stayed in shape year round back when few did. I'd say Kareem was every bit as well conditioned as Hakeem at the same ages.

Watched him play for years he was no where near the motor of a Hakeem.
He played a lot and did great but did not have the intensity of a Hakeem.

I watched them all play and Kareem played a half court game.
He did not have the stamina of Hakeem.

Motor is one thing. Stamina is another. Hakeem was nearly done when Kareem was still in the top 4 in MVP voting. If that isn't "conditioning" I'm not sure what it. Somehow at the same ages Kareem was playing more minutes with less stamina. Stupid coaching I guess.

"Intensity"? You need to define what you mean by this. If it's mental intensity then I'd say Kareem is right there with Kobe, Jordan, Havlicek and Bird as the most mentally intense and focused players I've ever seen. He wasn't demonstrative but he was very intense.

They had different styles of playing but lumping Kareem in with Shaq in terms of conditioning is just not accurate at all. He was extremely effective at ages with other centers (including Hakeem) were nearing the end. That was the result of staying in fantastic condition year round.

[Landsberger]

Stop living in the past, it is Brook Lopez.
As it is, I would take Shaq over Kareem regardless of Era, but feel Kareem was more dominant in his. There were far more centers that were very close to Shaq than there were close to Kareem. So there is my ambiguous answer.

Kareem's era was the era of the center. He played against 15 HOF centers and like you said dominated his era. Shaq's era didn't have nearly the level of center play in relation to the rest of the league as Kareem's and like you said there were more closer to Shaq.