2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Hello Brooklyn]

I still think Otto Porter is the best fit by far.

Call me crazy but I still think he has all-star potential. Amazing shooter, good defender, still very young. He has all the tools he needs to be 20 PPG scorer. And we need someone at his position anyway.

Russell
LeVert
Porter
RHJ
Mozgov

This is my ideal starting lineup for next season. With Jeremy Lin being our 6th man and leading the second unit.

My biggest fear if the Pacers. If its true that Boston isn't offering LA pick, our pick or either Brown or Taytum then I think Otto Porter is the best asset they can acquire.

Hes young and he plays the same position as George. Great fit for a rebuilding team. Smart trade for the Pacers if they want it.

i love the fit too...but i wouldnt call him an amazing shooter or good defender. definitely not a good defender. not a bad one, but he certaily isnt someone you can rely on. he is long though, and i think you can live with him defending PFs i think his value is there.

he is a great catch and shoot guy. i cant call him an amazing shooter when he isnt shooting off the dibble or off screens. great stand still catch and shoot guy but most of his attempts are created for him. and he will get tons of those here. but he isnt like a reddick or klay or korver who is shooting on the move, off the dribble, etc..

Didn't Porter leas the NBA in 3 point shooting last year?

He shot 43% from 3. I know a lot of those were open looks, but thats an insane clip.

Hes definitely a top 5 shooter in the league in my view.

As far as defense thats harder to quantify. But he has the size and strength to do it. I have no doubt that Atkinson could get him to be a pretty good defender.

[Keith Van Horn]

I get that everyone has hesitations about each and every potential free agent we can bring in, but you gotta remember you need to balance

A) what they've shown you so far in their NBA career, with

B) their upside potential, with

C) their fit in Kenny's system (and to add, the culture of Brooklyn basketball)

Yeah Porter disappeared with Bogie and in the playoffs at times, but in a featured starting role with a top-5 3 point shooting team, might he put up way more attempts/makes per game? Isn't he still 3-5 years away from his prime too?

Factoring all that in he would still be enormously overpaid and i think if you give him a featured role and more attempts his stats will go from looking very attractive to just looking solid.

that's your take on it, not a fact.

JJ would create more of a log jam and he'd be the oldest guy on the team at 33, and how do we start him, but aren't we trying to go positionless basketball with guys who can space? Wouldn't he and Lin provide tremendous chemistry and leadership together?

how would porter not create a logjam but reddick would? and reddick creates tons of spacing. few guys create the space he does. porter doesnt give you that. if you play porter at PF he gives you good spacing but nowhere near the elite spcing reddick would give you.

porter doesnt fare well switched on to gaurds.

that was part of my random hypothetical argument that other people are making, not me. I'm just spitballing arguments and counter arguments. I'm not looking to address issues like Redick spacing and Porter playing PF

KCP might look like massive overpay, but he's a great defender at the 2-3 that we need and might not have been used the best of ways in SVG's system. Didn't the Pistons fans say that he was the only one on the court that always cared, even in big losses? Isn't that the kind of attitude you want here in Brooklyn? (hello, Deron "dog" WIlliams) Who's to say he would play up to his big contract too?

To each his own, but I think you gotta take into consideration the whole picture and not just these guys for what they've been so far.

i AM taking the whole thing into consideration. these guys are young great fits. but you can give role players superstar money. i mean even at 18-19 million i wouldnt like the deal.

i wouldnt be so upset because of our age/timeline/fit but thats still massive overpays.

I'd rather swing for the fences then settle for Ingles or Snell. THose guys are good plan B/C options. Yeah massive might be a lot of money but that's what the market commands and, again, see the A, B, and C of my original post. We can take a chance and take a risk now on guys. Now is a good time to do it. We won't we winning the NBA championship in next 3-4 years, let's be real, but we can piece together a fun run and gun squad that competes every night. And we don't have any picks next year either so we should be looking to win games. We need to show players, present and future, we are a desirable destination and put forward max effort nightly. Going in big time on the names being mentioned is probably the best way to do it.
(I screwed up the quoting on this but not going back to fix it lol)

[Hello Brooklyn]

KCP is a horrible idea and I will be pretty upset if we sign him.

Guys like Porter are always movable because they are shooters. They are valuable in this league.

I would WAY rather stand pat then sign KCP to a max deal. I'd even prefer Reddick.

[Keith Van Horn]

KCP is like KJ with a way more polished offensive game. And KJ was doing well and getting 10-12 points a night in our offense

Russell/Lin/Dinwiddie
KCP(?)/Kilpatrick/Goodwin
LeVert/Harris/Wiley
RHJ/Booker/Alexander
Mosgov/Speights(?)/Allen

That's not bad. Plenty of room for the young guys to ball out and maybe make a push for 8th seed.

I think Russell starting and Lin as the 6th man microwave off the bench it can be alot like the 2015 -16 Hornets team

im not paying 25 million for KJ with a jumpshot.

But 3.5 for regular KJ is too expensive? Lol.

I just don't understand why you and so many other people are so obsessed with salary. It doesn't impact on court performance. The only people who have to deal with the consequences are Marks and Prok, and both are willing to do so.

How can people say they trust Marks and then all of a sudden not agree with him because of something that doesn't even effect them? You improve the team with a catch, but you don't even have to deal with the catch!

I'm just trying to say these aren't your problems to worry about, so why do they factor into your judgment?

At least if you give KCP 25 mil a year you're getting years 24-28. In an era where players are gonna make 40 mil for their 29-34 years, paying 25M for a players prime years isn't a bad deal.

agreed. these contracts won't be with us forever. We can afford to take big risks on young guys who aren't close to their primes yet. I trust what Marks is doing at this point.

[Prokorov]

Didn't Porter leas the NBA in 3 point shooting last year?

He was 4th behind korver, ingles, and crabbe.

He shot 43% from 3. I know a lot of those were open looks, but thats an insane clip.

Hes definitely a top 5 shooter in the league in my view.

Its not about open looks so much as catch and shoot. he is a great catch and shoot stationary player... but your not a top 5 shooter based of stand still shooting.

Korver, Reddck, Klay, Steph, McCollum, Lowry... these guys all shoot 40+ from three and do it on high volume and they do it off the dribble, they do it off screens, they do it without their feet set on the move. That is much more valuable.

As far as defense thats harder to quantify. But he has the size and strength to do it. I have no doubt that Atkinson could get him to be a pretty good defender.

i mean he is young with physically has tools. he can be a good defender. but people are talking like he is a 3&D guy or very good defender right now. he isnt.

Again ill be rooting for the guy if we get him and he is a fantastic fit but maxing role players rarely works out long term. and i just cant imagine it doesnt eventually give us some kind of issue.

[Paradise]

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[Prokorov]

im not paying 25 million for KJ with a jumpshot.

But 3.5 for regular KJ is too expensive? Lol.

I just don't understand why you and so many other people are so obsessed with salary. It doesn't impact on court performance. The only people who have to deal with the consequences are Marks and Prok, and both are willing to do so.

How can people say they trust Marks and then all of a sudden not agree with him because of something that doesn't even effect them? You improve the team with a catch, but you don't even have to deal with the catch!

I'm just trying to say these aren't your problems to worry about, so why do they factor into your judgment?

At least if you give KCP 25 mil a year you're getting years 24-28. In an era where players are gonna make 40 mil for their 29-34 years, paying 25M for a players prime years isn't a bad deal.

agreed. these contracts won't be with us forever. We can afford to take big risks on young guys who aren't close to their primes yet. I trust what Marks is doing at this point.

What happens after next year when russell and RHJ need an extension? and the year after when Levert needs an extensions.

90-100 million for a team of Dlo, Levert, RHJ, Porter? we would have our picks back but your looking at a team right at the cap, that probably competes for a low seed and needs the draft to improve but wont have a top pick.

its not doom and gloom but you need to consider that scenario and figure out how you pay those 2 guys with porter here and find a way to add talent to a group that wont likely be able to be more then a low seeded team

[Prokorov]

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would LOVE reddick at 16 million

[Prokorov]

KCP is a horrible idea and I will be pretty upset if we sign him.

Guys like Porter are always movable because they are shooters. They are valuable in this league.

I would WAY rather stand pat then sign KCP to a max deal. I'd even prefer Reddick.

Allen Crabbe shot better from three then porter did, will likely be making less then porter after porter signs his contract, and portland doesnt have much luck moving crabbe who is unanimously viewed as a negative asset that would require a pick to move.

teams always want shooters... but its always tought to move a role player on huge money.

[Ror1997]

im not paying 25 million for KJ with a jumpshot.

But 3.5 for regular KJ is too expensive? Lol.

I just don't understand why you and so many other people are so obsessed with salary. It doesn't impact on court performance. The only people who have to deal with the consequences are Marks and Prok, and both are willing to do so.

How can people say they trust Marks and then all of a sudden not agree with him because of something that doesn't even effect them? You improve the team with a catch, but you don't even have to deal with the catch!

I'm just trying to say these aren't your problems to worry about, so why do they factor into your judgment?

At least if you give KCP 25 mil a year you're getting years 24-28. In an era where players are gonna make 40 mil for their 29-34 years, paying 25M for a players prime years isn't a bad deal.

because your going to have cap issues down the road when you are paying role players max money.

and if you follow this thread and the marks thread you know that i DONT trust marks in free agency based on his offers to crabbe/bazemore last offseason.

Like i just said. Those cap issues and flexibility problems is Marks problem. And He's willing to deal with it. Its not like marks doesn't know what He's getting himself into.

And also, Like I said, if you trust Marks ability to find talent in the draft, then you in essence should trust his ability to find talent in FA. So if you're willing to have patience with Marks picks because you trust him, shouldn't you have patience with his ability to find talent in FA? Yeah. And especially given that the money involved is of no importance to you yourself. Yeah.

But no. You're saying that these contracts are top 5 worst in the league before they even play a game.

And I did see your posts about Marks F/A grades. You disagreed with them because....Of the money. Go figure.

Prok I agree with alot of the things you say, but you're about 5 years behind when it comes to contracts.

[CalamityX12]

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would LOVE reddick at 16 million

Injuries aside,(although it does affect contract with Gallo) whats the difference in Gallo n Reddick for you? in terms of adding to the offense.

[Mkdaman1818]

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Wonder if THJ would fit on our team...

[CalamityX12]

THJ would fit our team... but again its at G... we're a bit crowded there for better or worse....

SF/PF are the positions of need IMO.

[Ror1997]

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Wonder if THJ would fit on our team...

His tweets are more like a mailbag of his opinions, that people just misinterpret as inside info. Although I fully expect to see his name linked to BK over the next few days. I don't think well sign him though

Edit: nvm didn't see that you were proposing a question with the tweet. Thought you were posting it as news. My bad bro

[Prokorov]

Like i just said. Those cap issues and flexibility problems is Marks problem. And He's willing to deal with it. Its not like marks doesn't know what He's getting himself into.

but its not just marks problem... thats like saying billy king trading away all our picks doesnt effect us and that was billy kings problem. if you are a nets fan things that effect the product on the floor should concern you i would think

And also, Like I said, if you trust Marks ability to find talent in the draft, then you in essence should trust his ability to find talent in FA. So if you're willing to have patience with Marks picks because you trust him, shouldn't you have patience with his ability to find talent in FA? Yeah. And especially given that the money involved is of no importance to you yourself. Yeah.

I dont believe this to be true either. when you draft someone their contract is set. I like porter, i like KCP. but you have to factor what they cost and how much that cost effects our future.

But no. You're saying that these contracts are top 5 worst in the league before they even play a game.

And I did see your posts about Marks F/A grades. You disagreed with them because....Of the money. Go figure.

Prok I agree with alot of the things you say, but you're about 5 years behind when it comes to contracts.

I'm really not. and id point to bazemore and crabbe and just signed last year as highly regretable by their current teams. Go back one year further... the lakers signed a role player (mozgov) to a big contract and they had to pay heavily to dump it. Look at Mahinmi as well.

Are their role players making big money? YES.

Do nearly every one of those teams regret those contracts just a year or so later? YES.

you cant just ignore the salary cap. or else you end up in the blazers situation (or worse if you dont have allstars liek lillard/CJ)

[Prokorov]

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would LOVE reddick at 16 million

Injuries aside,(although it does affect contract with Gallo) whats the difference in Gallo n Reddick for you? in terms of adding to the offense.

reddick is an elite floor spacer. you just dont find guys who shoot it that well from three while on the move/off screens/off balance. its enormous for spacing

i also cant overlook injuries. thats a huge part of it for me.

[Mkdaman1818]

Like i just said. Those cap issues and flexibility problems is Marks problem. And He's willing to deal with it. Its not like marks doesn't know what He's getting himself into.

but its not just marks problem... thats like saying billy king trading away all our picks doesnt effect us and that was billy kings problem. if you are a nets fan things that effect the product on the floor should concern you i would think

And also, Like I said, if you trust Marks ability to find talent in the draft, then you in essence should trust his ability to find talent in FA. So if you're willing to have patience with Marks picks because you trust him, shouldn't you have patience with his ability to find talent in FA? Yeah. And especially given that the money involved is of no importance to you yourself. Yeah.

I dont believe this to be true either. when you draft someone their contract is set. I like porter, i like KCP. but you have to factor what they cost and how much that cost effects our future.

But no. You're saying that these contracts are top 5 worst in the league before they even play a game.

And I did see your posts about Marks F/A grades. You disagreed with them because....Of the money. Go figure.

Prok I agree with alot of the things you say, but you're about 5 years behind when it comes to contracts.

I'm really not. and id point to bazemore and crabbe and just signed last year as highly regretable by their current teams. Go back one year further... the lakers signed a role player (mozgov) to a big contract and they had to pay heavily to dump it. Look at Mahinmi as well.

Are their role players making big money? YES.

Do nearly every one of those teams regret those contracts just a year or so later? YES.

you cant just ignore the salary cap. or else you end up in the blazers situation (or worse if you dont have allstars liek lillard/CJ)

The big difference is that porter (or crabbe last year) wouldn't be a role player on our team if we signed him to a $20mm deal... we're paying that money with the expectation that under our coaches theyd blossom into a starter role. You can't look at crabbe on Portland as a measuring stick because they matched the offer sheet to make him a role player (since they already have Lillard and CJ). Marks isn't doing that, the teams that are matching are. Big difference.

[Mkdaman1818]

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[Prokorov]

The big difference is that porter (or crabbe last year) wouldn't be a role player on our team if we signed him to a $20mm deal... we're paying that money with the expectation that under our coaches theyd blossom into a starter role. You can't look at crabbe on Portland as a measuring stick because they matched the offer sheet to make him a role player (since they already have Lillard and CJ). Marks isn't doing that, the teams that are matching are. Big difference.

Thats the point... your asking a role player to be a feature high salary franchise player. thats not a recipe for success.