Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIII

[keynote]

Basketball-wise, I think Indiana might be marginally more attractive to Porter than most other teams with max cap space who have been rumored to be interested in Porter. Turner is a brighter star than anyone on the Nets' roster (Russell's a snitch), and the Sixers already have their forwards of the future. Dallas has Barnes. The Clips, Celts, and Heat are holding out for bigger fish.

Denver is a concern. Perhaps Porter would appreciate the pull of returning to the Midwest...?

[keynote]

I am not in favor of this trade. George is better than Porter, but not by too much. The positives don't outweigh the negatives:

Positives:
- George is better than Porter

Negatives:
- George can leave in one year.
- Porter hasn't peaked, he will improve over the next two years. George has peaked. In 2 years, the difference between the two players will be even smaller. And there is a chance that Porter will actually be better than George.
- Porter would be signed long term to $22-25M a year. If George is retained, he'll cost $30-35M a year. That $10-12M a year difference could mean another quality player sacrificed.
- We lose a future 1st round pick.

I'm inclined to agree. That said, the trade might actually signal that Ted is prepared to spend big luxury tax money. So if we...
- trade for George
- trade for Melo (e.g., roll the dice on that Morris/Mahinmi/??? for Melo/Noah package others have floated)
- re-sign Bog
- *and* sign another guy (e.g., a defensive minded backup 4 or a creator combo guard) for the full MLE.

...we might be able to get past CLE and go to the Finals.

Yes, it's short term, risky, and probably not sustainable. But while Porter might end up being a better player than George 2-3 years from now, picking up George (and, possibly, Melo), gets us airtime on Sundays on ABC. It gets us a game on the Christmas schedule. It gets Ted season ticket buys from casual fans and lookie-loos. It moves merch. Etc.

Ted already got a taste of that spotlight for the brief year we had Pierce; I'm sure he wants that again. If we stand pat with Porter, I suspect that we won't have enough star power to motivate Ted to spend the luxury tax $ to pull off other moves.

[JWizmentality]

I'd do it without the guarantee. You have to take a chance in this league. Better to have tried and failed then to lose Wall because we didn't do anything to keep him.

There is 0 chance we lose Wall. Now that he is an All-NBA player, we can offer him so much more money than anybody else.

Unless he asks for a trade.

[Dark Faze]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if John were to be willing to take less money to play for a winning team that might substantially improve his endorsement abilities.

We've seen John's awareness with these matters and his huge risk taking already. He fired his agent and turned down a signature shoe deal because he thought he could do better. You don't just turn down signature shoe deals, that's a big deal. And he already put it out there that he wants to see what we do to improve and that him signing the extension is not a lock. He literally said he's waiting to see what we do.

If you get George, your chance of adding a 4th star to get him to stay here go up considerably. We have a nice combo package that can be moved for a star that has leverage and wants to be traded here. If Cousins informed the Pelicans he wouldn't extend and would like to trade to Washington, the Pelicans would comply. Likewise, something similar could happen with another player.

Turning down this deal is basically a willingness to roll the dice on the quality of Otto Porter at the risk of Wall leaving, who has already put the signal out there that he's watching the FO.

[Ruzious]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if John were to be willing to take less money to play for a winning team that might substantially improve his endorsement abilities.

We've seen John's awareness with these matters and his huge risk taking already. He fired his agent and turned down a signature shoe deal because he thought he could do better. You don't just turn down signature shoe deals, that's a big deal. And he already put it out there that he wants to see what we do to improve and that him signing the extension is not a lock. He literally said he's waiting to see what we do.

If you get George, your chance of adding a 4th star to get him to stay here go up considerably. We have a nice combo package that can be moved for a star that has leverage and wants to be traded here. If Cousins informed the Pelicans he wouldn't extend and would like to trade to Washington, the Pelicans would comply. Likewise, something similar could happen with another player.

Turning down this deal is basically a willingness to roll the dice on the quality of Otto Porter at the risk of Wall leaving, who has already put the signal out there that he's watching the FO.

Interesting points, but as was pointed out, George is going to command over 30 mil to re-sign. Where's the cap money going to come from to attract another free agent? And trading yet another 1st round pick... that's a deal-breaker to me. Ya can't keep doing that every year. No picks means no cheap depth to develop.

[Tricky_Kid]

I'd do it without the guarantee. You have to take a chance in this league. Better to have tried and failed then to lose Wall because we didn't do anything to keep him.

There is 0 chance we lose Wall. Now that he is an All-NBA player, we can offer him so much more money than anybody else.

Unless he asks for a trade.

Everybody said exact thing about CP3. Nothing is guarantee

Sent from my HUAWEI CAM-L21 using RealGM mobile app

[Dark Faze]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/06/30/the-wizards-want-to-extend-john-wall-the-guard-wants-to-wait-and-see/?utm_term=.3fe8854764ce

Very recently from Washington post:

“I just want to kind of see what they do throughout free agency, talk to my family, talk to my agency and my managers and see what we want to do,” Wall told The Washington Post after walking the red carpet Monday night. “It’s definitely a place I want to be … I’ve just got to make sure things are going in the right direction, and make sure we are building the team in the way we want to be, and don’t get locked up in a situation where you might not feel comfortable.

[payitforward]

Porter for George straight up is an awful idea. Porter & a R1 pick is all the worse.

Paul George is going to the Lakers next Summer.

Did you see what the Celtics offered for Paul George, who is going to the Lakers next Summer?

[Rafael122]

I am not in favor of this trade. George is better than Porter, but not by too much. The positives don't outweigh the negatives:

Positives:
- George is better than Porter

Negatives:
- George can leave in one year.
- Porter hasn't peaked, he will improve over the next two years. George has peaked. In 2 years, the difference between the two players will be even smaller. And there is a chance that Porter will actually be better than George.
- Porter would be signed long term to $22-25M a year. If George is retained, he'll cost $30-35M a year. That $10-12M a year difference could mean another quality player sacrificed.
- We lose a future 1st round pick.

I get this aspect, but to argue your cons, just to play devil's advocate a bit:

There was something out there that depending on the team, George could stay and extend. But it has to be the right circumstance. No one knows if the Lakers can get back to where they were unless they got Russ and George. George and Wall are good friends, the West is a bloodbath. Again, unless the plan is for the Lakers to get two super max guys I just don't see how this makes sense for him, especially if he wants a ring.

Completely agree, George will probably be on the downward slope of his career in 2 years. BUT....by the time Porter becomes a complete player, it will fall in line with Wall's downward slope. Wall is turning 27 this season, he'll be pushing 30. Basically Porter's rise doesn't match with Wall's prime.

I agree with your two other points. I'm truly torn, b/c if it ain't George, it's trading Porter and possibly Gortat on the last year of his deal for Cousins if the Pelicans decide DMC/AD can't work. Either way Otto becomes our best trading chip, as he is now. You need 3 guys at this point to do anything in this league, I think a lot of us are unsure if Otto is that #3 when we're paying him to be a #1 or #2.

[Dark Faze]

Porter for George straight up is an awful idea. Porter & a R1 pick is all the worse.

Paul George is going to the Lakers next Summer.

Did you see what the Celtics offered for Paul George, who is going to the Lakers next Summer?

The offer was Smart + Crowder + a Memphis or other similar mid graded first for him. I think Otto + lightly protected first beats that offer. Ainge doesn't want to give anything of value up without an extend and trade. The Rockets have nearly no assets left. The Cavs never had assets to begin with.

If we get George we use the celebrity of Wall/Beal/George to immediately grind to find a 4th star. At that point, all Cousins would have to do is inform the Pelicans he won't be extending with them and would like a trade to DC. We send Oubre and Gortat. Boom, done. Superteam formed.

Obviously I make it sound easy, but this is always how it happens. Nobody wants to be the missing piece that puts you on the same level as the other top teams. People want to be the piece that gives them the ADVANTAGE over other teams. Once you get that huge star, it's like you credit score goes from being in the dumps to being maxed out.

[Dat2U]

Porter for George straight up is an awful idea. Porter & a R1 pick is all the worse.

Paul George is going to the Lakers next Summer.

Did you see what the Celtics offered for Paul George, who is going to the Lakers next Summer?

I don't think we have anything to worry about. I personally believe this was a weak effort put out by the Wizards front office to let John Wall know that the front office is trying to improve the roster. Not only is our package a joke compared to what the Celts can offer, Porter and his agent David Falk have little reason to go along with this.

I feel like a broken record telling folks this on here and social media, but the only plausible option for George is a combo of Oubre, Gortat & picks. Again, a poo-poo platter of assets compared to what other teams can offer.

[Dat2U]

I am not in favor of this trade. George is better than Porter, but not by too much. The positives don't outweigh the negatives:

Positives:
- George is better than Porter

Negatives:
- George can leave in one year.
- Porter hasn't peaked, he will improve over the next two years. George has peaked. In 2 years, the difference between the two players will be even smaller. And there is a chance that Porter will actually be better than George.
- Porter would be signed long term to $22-25M a year. If George is retained, he'll cost $30-35M a year. That $10-12M a year difference could mean another quality player sacrificed.
- We lose a future 1st round pick.

I get this aspect, but to argue your cons, just to play devil's advocate a bit:

There was something out there that depending on the team, George could stay and extend. But it has to be the right circumstance. No one knows if the Lakers can get back to where they were unless they got Russ and George. George and Wall are good friends, the West is a bloodbath. Again, unless the plan is for the Lakers to get two super max guys I just don't see how this makes sense for him, especially if he wants a ring.

Completely agree, George will probably be on the downward slope of his career in 2 years. BUT....by the time Porter becomes a complete player, it will fall in line with Wall's downward slope. Wall is turning 27 this season, he'll be pushing 30. Basically Porter's rise doesn't match with Wall's prime.

I agree with your two other points. I'm truly torn, b/c if it ain't George, it's trading Porter and possibly Gortat on the last year of his deal for Cousins if the Pelicans decide DMC/AD can't work. Either way Otto becomes our best trading chip, as he is now. You need 3 guys at this point to do anything in this league, I think a lot of us are unsure if Otto is that #3 when we're paying him to be a #1 or #2.

This is just silly. Porter is already a heckuva a player but since were too busy judging folks' impact by the PPG measurement, Porter's fairly substantial impact gets overlooked.

[Dark Faze]

Otto got either matched or outplayed by Jae Crowder and rookie Taurean Prince this postseason. He's not only being judged by offense. He's not an answer to virtually anything on the defensive end at one of the most important positions for defense in the sport.

[Dat2U]

Otto got either matched or outplayed by Jae Crowder and rookie Taurean Prince this postseason. He's not only being judged by offense. He's not an answer to virtually anything on the defensive end at one of the most important positions for defense in the sport.

Actually he wasn't outplayed.

The C & PF positions respectively are the most important positions defensively in basketball.

He's a very good team defender... which is more important than being a standout lockdown defender.

He's gotten significantly better each year. He's become an elite shooter and finisher in the league. He's a great decision maker who doesn't turn the ball over.

And best of yet, he just turned 24 years old and we can lock him up until he's 29.

[payitforward]

Porter for George straight up is an awful idea. Porter & a R1 pick is all the worse.

Paul George is going to the Lakers next Summer.

Did you see what the Celtics offered for Paul George, who is going to the Lakers next Summer?

The offer was Smart + Crowder + a Memphis or other similar mid graded first for him. I think Otto + lightly protected first beats that offer. Ainge doesn't want to give anything of value up without an extend and trade. The Rockets have nearly no assets left. The Cavs never had assets to begin with.

If we get George we use the celebrity of Wall/Beal/George to immediately grind to find a 4th star. At that point, all Cousins would have to do is inform the Pelicans he won't be extending with them and would like a trade to DC. We send Oubre and Gortat. Boom, done. Superteam formed.

Obviously I make it sound easy, but this is always how it happens. Nobody wants to be the missing piece that puts you on the same level as the other top teams. People want to be the piece that gives them the ADVANTAGE over other teams. Once you get that huge star, it's like you credit score goes from being in the dumps to being maxed out.

Sorry faze, but no.

Lets just start w/ the fact that you now have 10 players (with Sheldon Mac) for @ $116m. Good luck filling out the team.

Plus, you are still starting Morris at the 4. You have no back up 3 at all. Your backup 4 is Chris McCullough. Your backup PG situation hasn't changed. Ditto your backup at the 2.

"Super team" my a$$. This isn't a "super-team" even for the one year George is on board! Cousins is colossally over-rated. Paul George is good, but he's not a superstar. & you just gave away 2500+ of the most productive minutes anyone on your team played.

It's one thing if you add George to a team with Porter; you get all he has to give, & you give up nothing. Trading Porter for him, you get whatever the delta is between them -- for my money you lose on the direct trade, but even if you think PG is better than Porter, the gain is only the amount better, not a whole additional player. Oh, & then tell me where the extra shots for him are going to come from?

Then there's the fact that Paul George will be gone in a year, & you have given away a R1 pick. You're way worse off than you were -- a lot!!

[payitforward]

I am not in favor of this trade. George is better than Porter, but not by too much. The positives don't outweigh the negatives:

Positives:
- George is better than Porter

Negatives:
- George can leave in one year.
- Porter hasn't peaked, he will improve over the next two years. George has peaked. In 2 years, the difference between the two players will be even smaller. And there is a chance that Porter will actually be better than George.
- Porter would be signed long term to $22-25M a year. If George is retained, he'll cost $30-35M a year. That $10-12M a year difference could mean another quality player sacrificed.
- We lose a future 1st round pick.

I get this aspect, but to argue your cons, just to play devil's advocate a bit:

There was something out there that depending on the team, George could stay and extend. But it has to be the right circumstance. No one knows if the Lakers can get back to where they were unless they got Russ and George. George and Wall are good friends, the West is a bloodbath. Again, unless the plan is for the Lakers to get two super max guys I just don't see how this makes sense for him, especially if he wants a ring.

Completely agree, George will probably be on the downward slope of his career in 2 years. BUT....by the time Porter becomes a complete player, it will fall in line with Wall's downward slope. Wall is turning 27 this season, he'll be pushing 30. Basically Porter's rise doesn't match with Wall's prime.

I agree with your two other points. I'm truly torn, b/c if it ain't George, it's trading Porter and possibly Gortat on the last year of his deal for Cousins if the Pelicans decide DMC/AD can't work. Either way Otto becomes our best trading chip, as he is now. You need 3 guys at this point to do anything in this league, I think a lot of us are unsure if Otto is that #3 when we're paying him to be a #1 or #2.

This is just silly. Porter is already a heckuva a player but since were too busy judging folks' impact by the PPG measurement, Porter's fairly substantial impact gets overlooked.

Bingo.

[payitforward]

Otto got either matched or outplayed by Jae Crowder and rookie Taurean Prince this postseason. He's not only being judged by offense. He's not an answer to virtually anything on the defensive end at one of the most important positions for defense in the sport.

Actually he wasn't outplayed.

The C & PF positions respectively are the most important positions defensively in basketball.

He's a very good team defender... which is more important than being a standout lockdown defender.

He's gotten significantly better each year. He's become an elite shooter and finisher in the league. He's a great decision maker who doesn't turn the ball over.

And best of yet, he just turned 24 years old and we can lock him up until he's 29.

You said it better than I could have. Going forward, Porter is one of the most valuable players in the league. Locking him up would be the smartest move Ernie has made in a long time, smarter than locking up Beal for example -- by a lot.

The only people who don't understand this are those who think that how good a player is = how many points a game he scores. Period. We seem to have a cohort of those.

I have to commend Nat, btw; whatever ideas he has that seem off, at least he understands how dumb it would be to let Otto Porter go.

[sogood]

Read on Twitter

[NatP4]

Just offer Gortat and Oubre and a 1st rounder and wait then out.

[pcbothwel]

Just offer Gortat and Oubre and a 1st rounder and wait then out.

Yeah, This is the real Home Run threat that beats the East. I also think we have to take into the account the money we save with Porter. He is the consummate pro. I would tell him and Falk straight up,
'we think we can trade for George and keep all 4 stars together for the next 5 years... But its not going to be easy, so every bit you can save us helps us make that possible. 5/100 has a great ring to is...sign it Otto'