Ranking the best young core's in the League right now

[Preacherpj]

I'm not reading ridiculousness. You can interpret data however you please, there is no data saying Jokic is a better fit for today's game than Booker. They play two different positions, so using data to support your opinion is flawed. The only data that matters is not one team that is competing for a title is being lead by a slow footed inside playing PF/C that cannot guard anything outside of Marc Gasol.....

Jokic is horrible for today's game. Good stat stuffer, but yesterday's news. Glad you aren't building this team. You'd trade Booker for Jokic.....yuck!!

the idea that you truly believe;

"Jokic is horrible for today's game, good stat stuffer, but yesterday's news"................. is crazy to me. I don't even know how to respond to that level of silliness.

And yes, I probably would trade Booker straight up for him in a vacuum, its much harder to find 6-10 guys like Jokic than it is to find 6-6 guys like Booker, it just is. SGs are easier to find. Now because he's in Phoenix, the FO has put his face everywhere, the fans have over the top man-crushes on him (looking at you!)... I probably wouldn't do that deal anymore..... but you'd be hard-pressed to find many non-Phoenix fans who watch basketball that would agree with you.

You really need to watch him more if you think he's a horrible fit for today's game, as I've already said his TS% is ridiculous and his ability to pass and be a playmaker as a 6-10 forwards opens up a lot of offense for teams that want to space the floor.

You continue with that TS% all you want. I am not trying to convince you to want Booker or any other non-Phoenix fans (my favorite saying when someone here doesn't agree with a Suns' fan here). I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. I don't like Jokic over Booker. Why do you insist on going over this? I saw Jokic play and he didn't move the needle with me. KP does, even though I prefer Booker. KAT does. Wiggins does. Embiid does. Jokic does not. I have been around long enough to know what I like and who makes me go damn! Not Jokic. If you think it is because he is white and slow......wrong. BIrd was the ****. He made me go Damn....lol....damn..I can't believe he did that, that dude is one of the best.

Jokic ain't Shaq. Hakeem. Ewing. Duncan. Barkley. Malone. KG. Kat. KP. Cousins. AD. etc etc etc... He is Jokic. He average 18.7 pts per game and 9.8 rebs... Pick him all you want because of his WORP, TS, RPM, DSD, KPR, what ever else PER... I don't care.

He doesn't move the needle. Booker does... he is a SG and he SHOOTS. I know people have problems with his effeciecny and would love to get rid of him, as they would have a young KD or Kobe or Harden or AI or any other young gunner who had to learn the game before they could become a better ball player.

Take Jokic 2 foot bunny shooting, slow footed, no jumping, boring, slow pace, feed him in the post stagnant playing ass and enjoy! And you can get everyone outside of this forum to join you, I don't care.

Me thinking Jokic>Booker does not mean I want to get rid of him or think he's trash.

[JMac1]

the idea that you truly believe;

"Jokic is horrible for today's game, good stat stuffer, but yesterday's news"................. is crazy to me. I don't even know how to respond to that level of silliness.

And yes, I probably would trade Booker straight up for him in a vacuum, its much harder to find 6-10 guys like Jokic than it is to find 6-6 guys like Booker, it just is. SGs are easier to find. Now because he's in Phoenix, the FO has put his face everywhere, the fans have over the top man-crushes on him (looking at you!)... I probably wouldn't do that deal anymore..... but you'd be hard-pressed to find many non-Phoenix fans who watch basketball that would agree with you.

You really need to watch him more if you think he's a horrible fit for today's game, as I've already said his TS% is ridiculous and his ability to pass and be a playmaker as a 6-10 forwards opens up a lot of offense for teams that want to space the floor.

You continue with that TS% all you want. I am not trying to convince you to want Booker or any other non-Phoenix fans (my favorite saying when someone here doesn't agree with a Suns' fan here). I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. I don't like Jokic over Booker. Why do you insist on going over this? I saw Jokic play and he didn't move the needle with me. KP does, even though I prefer Booker. KAT does. Wiggins does. Embiid does. Jokic does not. I have been around long enough to know what I like and who makes me go damn! Not Jokic. If you think it is because he is white and slow......wrong. BIrd was the ****. He made me go Damn....lol....damn..I can't believe he did that, that dude is one of the best.

Jokic ain't Shaq. Hakeem. Ewing. Duncan. Barkley. Malone. KG. Kat. KP. Cousins. AD. etc etc etc... He is Jokic. He average 18.7 pts per game and 9.8 rebs... Pick him all you want because of his WORP, TS, RPM, DSD, KPR, what ever else PER... I don't care.

He doesn't move the needle. Booker does... he is a SG and he SHOOTS. I know people have problems with his effeciecny and would love to get rid of him, as they would have a young KD or Kobe or Harden or AI or any other young gunner who had to learn the game before they could become a better ball player.

Take Jokic 2 foot bunny shooting, slow footed, no jumping, boring, slow pace, feed him in the post stagnant playing ass and enjoy! And you can get everyone outside of this forum to join you, I don't care.

Me thinking Jokic>Booker does not mean I want to get rid of him or think he's trash.

<exhale> I didn't say you wanted to trade him......You said you'd take him over Booker to start a team or rebuild or whatever and everyone outside of here would agree with you. So I said go ahead and take him (to start your franchise or whatever you said).

[Zelaznyrules]

You continue with that TS% all you want. I am not trying to convince you to want Booker or any other non-Phoenix fans (my favorite saying when someone here doesn't agree with a Suns' fan here). I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. I don't like Jokic over Booker. Why do you insist on going over this? I saw Jokic play and he didn't move the needle with me. KP does, even though I prefer Booker. KAT does. Wiggins does. Embiid does. Jokic does not. I have been around long enough to know what I like and who makes me go damn! Not Jokic. If you think it is because he is white and slow......wrong. BIrd was the ****. He made me go Damn....lol....damn..I can't believe he did that, that dude is one of the best.

Jokic ain't Shaq. Hakeem. Ewing. Duncan. Barkley. Malone. KG. Kat. KP. Cousins. AD. etc etc etc... He is Jokic. He average 18.7 pts per game and 9.8 rebs... Pick him all you want because of his WORP, TS, RPM, DSD, KPR, what ever else PER... I don't care.

He doesn't move the needle. Booker does... he is a SG and he SHOOTS. I know people have problems with his effeciecny and would love to get rid of him, as they would have a young KD or Kobe or Harden or AI or any other young gunner who had to learn the game before they could become a better ball player.

Take Jokic 2 foot bunny shooting, slow footed, no jumping, boring, slow pace, feed him in the post stagnant playing ass and enjoy! And you can get everyone outside of this forum to join you, I don't care.

Me thinking Jokic>Booker does not mean I want to get rid of him or think he's trash.

<exhale> I didn't say you wanted to trade him......You said you'd take him over Booker to start a team or rebuild or whatever and everyone outside of here would agree with you. So I said go ahead and take him (to start your franchise or whatever you said).

I'd be thrilled to build a team around Jokic. Not as thrilled as I am to build a team around Booker, but I'd be thrilled nonetheless. Devin is almost 2 years younger than Nikola, I'm ecstatic over his future.

[JMac1]

Me thinking Jokic>Booker does not mean I want to get rid of him or think he's trash.

<exhale> I didn't say you wanted to trade him......You said you'd take him over Booker to start a team or rebuild or whatever and everyone outside of here would agree with you. So I said go ahead and take him (to start your franchise or whatever you said).

I'd be thrilled to build a team around Jokic. Not as thrilled as I am to build a team around Booker, but I'd be thrilled nonetheless. Devin is almost 2 years younger than Nikola, I'm ecstatic over his future.

Didn't know that.....Even better.

[Preacherpj]

You continue with that TS% all you want. I am not trying to convince you to want Booker or any other non-Phoenix fans (my favorite saying when someone here doesn't agree with a Suns' fan here). I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. I don't like Jokic over Booker. Why do you insist on going over this? I saw Jokic play and he didn't move the needle with me. KP does, even though I prefer Booker. KAT does. Wiggins does. Embiid does. Jokic does not. I have been around long enough to know what I like and who makes me go damn! Not Jokic. If you think it is because he is white and slow......wrong. BIrd was the ****. He made me go Damn....lol....damn..I can't believe he did that, that dude is one of the best.

Jokic ain't Shaq. Hakeem. Ewing. Duncan. Barkley. Malone. KG. Kat. KP. Cousins. AD. etc etc etc... He is Jokic. He average 18.7 pts per game and 9.8 rebs... Pick him all you want because of his WORP, TS, RPM, DSD, KPR, what ever else PER... I don't care.

He doesn't move the needle. Booker does... he is a SG and he SHOOTS. I know people have problems with his effeciecny and would love to get rid of him, as they would have a young KD or Kobe or Harden or AI or any other young gunner who had to learn the game before they could become a better ball player.

Take Jokic 2 foot bunny shooting, slow footed, no jumping, boring, slow pace, feed him in the post stagnant playing ass and enjoy! And you can get everyone outside of this forum to join you, I don't care.

Me thinking Jokic>Booker does not mean I want to get rid of him or think he's trash.

<exhale> I didn't say you wanted to trade him......You said you'd take him over Booker to start a team or rebuild or whatever and everyone outside of here would agree with you. So I said go ahead and take him (to start your franchise or whatever you said).

Your words "I know people have trouble with his efficiency and would love to get rid of him as they would a young KD, Kobe or Harden"

Nobody wants to get rid of him; saying Jokic is better than Booker isn't a knock on Booker.

[Preacherpj]

Another way you could look at young core's is financial control over young assets.

For example; if we look at the combination of Booker, Warren, Ulis, Bender, Chriss, and Jackson you have 16 combined years of control at rookie level wages before any of them hit RFA.... and even then with the first round guys you can exert more control with matching offers.

Having so many of those guys cost-controlled for several years should give Phoenix the flexibility to mix and match around these young pieces.

Looking at Minnesota for example and their young core of Wiggins, Patton, KAT and Tyus Jones - they have a combined 10 years left of cost controlled season.

Just another way of looking at it.

[Biff]

I agree with Preacherpj that Jokic is better than Booker. Jokic's advanced stats are far far far better. Booker has a +3.9 on/off court rating last year and Jokic had a +11.9. Jokic is 20 months older, so not quite 2 years. Big men also usually take longer to develop. Jokic might seem a little slow and will never be a dominant defender but Booker is worse on defense so I'm not sure if that's much of an argument against Jokic.

I think Booker will be one of the best SG's in the league in a few years but I think Jokic will be better. He's like a more skilled version of Kevin Love.

[bwgood77]

I agree with Preacherpj that Jokic is better than Booker. Jokic's advanced stats are far far far better. Booker has a +3.9 on/off court rating last year and Jokic had a +11.9. Jokic is 20 months older, so not quite 2 years. Big men also usually take longer to develop. Jokic might seem a little slow and will never be a dominant defender but Booker is worse on defense so I'm not sure if that's much of an argument against Jokic.

I think Booker will be one of the best SG's in the league in a few years but I think Jokic will be better. He's like a more skilled version of Kevin Love.

Yeah, I mean I love Booker, but outside of people here you'd be hard pressed to find many people choosing him over Jokic. Like here. viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1584122

[bwgood77]

Another way you could look at young core's is financial control over young assets.

For example; if we look at the combination of Booker, Warren, Ulis, Bender, Chriss, and Jackson you have 16 combined years of control at rookie level wages before any of them hit RFA.... and even then with the first round guys you can exert more control with matching offers.

Having so many of those guys cost-controlled for several years should give Phoenix the flexibility to mix and match around these young pieces.

Looking at Minnesota for example and their young core of Wiggins, Patton, KAT and Tyus Jones - they have a combined 10 years left of cost controlled season.

Just another way of looking at it.

Yeah I love where we are. Ranking where young core's our RIGHT NOW we may not rank high, but I love our group of guys, how long we have control, and they are all so young that they have far more room to grow and potential upside than most of the cores, outside of maybe Philly, but they have many unknowns....like will Simmons and Fultz live up to their hype and will Embiid stay healthy? I mean the guy's played 33 games and will be in his second contract after next year.

[Zelaznyrules]

I agree with Preacherpj that Jokic is better than Booker. Jokic's advanced stats are far far far better. Booker has a +3.9 on/off court rating last year and Jokic had a +11.9. Jokic is 20 months older, so not quite 2 years. Big men also usually take longer to develop. Jokic might seem a little slow and will never be a dominant defender but Booker is worse on defense so I'm not sure if that's much of an argument against Jokic.

I think Booker will be one of the best SG's in the league in a few years but I think Jokic will be better. He's like a more skilled version of Kevin Love.

Yeah, I mean I love Booker, but outside of people here you'd be hard pressed to find many people choosing him over Jokic. Like here. viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1584122

Yeah but that's not all that surprising. With our record, it would probably go that way even if Booker had been the better player so far. But even though I like Jokic and think he's clearly been the better player thus far, I like Booker's chances in the long run to be the superior player.

[MrMiyagi]

Nobody watched us this year, so everyone goes to the stat sheet. I take us over Denver 10/10 times.

[bwgood77]

I don't know if Booker will become better than Jokic or not. I mean he already is to the majority around here. This was a ranking as is right now.

For the long run I take ours over probably all of them given the unknowns of Philly's, and Denver's not seeming as deep, even though Harris played better than Booker as well and Murray finished ahead of Chriss in rookie voting. I do feel most underrate how good Denver's under 25 guys are right now though for whatever reason. The Bucks could be a force if Middleton stays healthy and Maker turns into anything. Brogdon's not young for a rookie, but he's a stud.

[DirtyDez]

Fultz
Redick
Covington
Simmons
Embiid
-
McConnell
Stauskas
Lawawu
Saric
Holmes/Okafor

[STEV13]

Furkan Korkmaz ( ) is also coming over this year for Philly.

[MrMiyagi]

Furkan Korkmaz ( ) is also coming over this year for Philly.

Who the Furk is that?

[Xanadu]

Take Jokic 2 foot bunny shooting, slow footed, no jumping, boring, slow pace, feed him in the post stagnant playing ass and enjoy! And you can get everyone outside of this forum to join you, I don't care.

Ok so this just wrong you are selling Jokic far to short. Right now Booker ceiling is probably like Ray Allen if he reaches his peak. Ray is a HOF all time great scorer and a great player. Jokic ceiling is Dirk and if your picking on who you wanted to start a franchise between Ray and Dirk everybody takes Dirk. Booker has not shown the handles, finishing, or defense to be a Kobe Byrant type number 1 on a championship team. Jokic with his unique skill set at 7 ft has. Neither has reached their ceiling but unless Booker becomes elite at something besides shooting he could be top tier 2 on a ship team.

[bwgood77]

Ok so this just wrong you are selling Jokic far to short. Right now Booker ceiling is probably like Ray Allen if he reaches his peak. Ray is a HOF all time great scorer and a great player. Jokic ceiling is Dirk and if your picking on who you wanted to start a franchise between Ray and Dirk everybody takes Dirk. Booker has not shown the handles, finishing, or defense to be a Kobe Byrant type number 1 on a championship team. Jokic with his unique skill set at 7 ft has. Neither has reached their ceiling but unless Booker becomes elite at something besides shooting he could be top tier 2 on a ship team.

Yeah, many people sell Jokic short. The Booker love is high here. I don't know if I'd say Dirk, but that's not a knock on Jokic, but his skills are mostly passing for a big, and he rebounds well and scores well inside. He is a decent 3 pt shooter, but I don't think he has Dirk's shooting touch. Not sure who the best comp is, but he is a special player.

[ATTL]

Ok so this just wrong you are selling Jokic far to short. Right now Booker ceiling is probably like Ray Allen if he reaches his peak. Ray is a HOF all time great scorer and a great player. Jokic ceiling is Dirk and if your picking on who you wanted to start a franchise between Ray and Dirk everybody takes Dirk. Booker has not shown the handles, finishing, or defense to be a Kobe Byrant type number 1 on a championship team. Jokic with his unique skill set at 7 ft has. Neither has reached their ceiling but unless Booker becomes elite at something besides shooting he could be top tier 2 on a ship team.

Yeah, many people sell Jokic short. The Booker love is high here. I don't know if I'd say Dirk, but that's not a knock on Jokic, but his skills are mostly passing for a big, and he rebounds well and scores well inside. He is a decent 3 pt shooter, but I don't think he has Dirk's shooting touch. Not sure who the best comp is, but he is a special player.

I see jokic as similar to what the elder sabonis could have been in his prime in the NBA. Minus the athleticism and defensive potential.

[JMac1]

Ok so this just wrong you are selling Jokic far to short. Right now Booker ceiling is probably like Ray Allen if he reaches his peak. Ray is a HOF all time great scorer and a great player. Jokic ceiling is Dirk and if your picking on who you wanted to start a franchise between Ray and Dirk everybody takes Dirk. Booker has not shown the handles, finishing, or defense to be a Kobe Byrant type number 1 on a championship team. Jokic with his unique skill set at 7 ft has. Neither has reached their ceiling but unless Booker becomes elite at something besides shooting he could be top tier 2 on a ship team.

Yeah, many people sell Jokic short. The Booker love is high here. I don't know if I'd say Dirk, but that's not a knock on Jokic, but his skills are mostly passing for a big, and he rebounds well and scores well inside. He is a decent 3 pt shooter, but I don't think he has Dirk's shooting touch. Not sure who the best comp is, but he is a special player.

I see jokic as similar to what the elder sabonis could have been in his prime in the NBA. Minus the athleticism and defensive potential.

So basically the old Sabonis. Without the height and size. Sabonis was massive, gave Shaq fits/

[JMac1]

Ok so this just wrong you are selling Jokic far to short. Right now Booker ceiling is probably like Ray Allen if he reaches his peak. Ray is a HOF all time great scorer and a great player. Jokic ceiling is Dirk and if your picking on who you wanted to start a franchise between Ray and Dirk everybody takes Dirk. Booker has not shown the handles, finishing, or defense to be a Kobe Byrant type number 1 on a championship team. Jokic with his unique skill set at 7 ft has. Neither has reached their ceiling but unless Booker becomes elite at something besides shooting he could be top tier 2 on a ship team.

Yeah, many people sell Jokic short. The Booker love is high here. I don't know if I'd say Dirk, but that's not a knock on Jokic, but his skills are mostly passing for a big, and he rebounds well and scores well inside. He is a decent 3 pt shooter, but I don't think he has Dirk's shooting touch. Not sure who the best comp is, but he is a special player.

The problem with the Jokic lovers is they act like this is 2000. His game is antiquated. No one is running their team through an inside playing 4. Is he good and needed at times in the half court, of course. But if Booker continues his trajectory and Jokic is a Sabonis type player......Devin will have a much bigger impact on the game and thus, I choose him all day everyday.

Before Nash and Curry and Lebron and Kobe and Harden you would have had me. I watched Ewing and Robinson and Hakeem and Sampson and Shaq and Duncan and KG and Barkley and Malone and Malone and Dawkins and Kareem and McHale......but now, with the rule changes against them and for the perimeter players....no chance.

It's about pushing the ball and threes now. Jordan, Isaiah, Bird, Magic, KJ, Dominique, Hardaway, Mullins, would have had a field day in today's game.


But please everyone. If you love Jokic.....love him. I don't and won't. I think I have that right.