2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Ror1997]

Allen fills a serious need. OG did not.

Mark's wants to create a defense where all the defenders can switch with ease, right? Think about a core of LeVert/OG/RHJ. You would always have an above average perimeter defender on the court. Russell would've been easily protected on defense. RHJ and OG both have elite defensive potential.

I don't know. I just think we had a tremendous opportunity to have a core with young, hyperathletic defensive studs. Plus I don't think would've been hard to acquire another pick and draft a Center. It was a deep draft when in came to big men. However, it's not every day you get to draft a 19 year old defensive stud who has an NBA ready body to go along with a 8 foot wingspan.

i LOVE OG... he was right near the top of my board with patton and semi. but Allen is a better prospect. and while its great to switch 1 through 4 having a D anchor at center who can blow up pick and rolls and switch on to gaurds and wings an hold his own is even more important.

i think its easier to find a wing who can switch to 2/3/4 then it is a potential anchor at center

The dleague is full of ok defenders who can switch on D 2-3. 2-4 is a little harder but still there. A wing with a 8 foot wingspan though? And elite defensive potential? That's hard to find.

And with Allen I just not sold on him yet. It might just be because he needs to fill out his frame more, but the dude is way too slim. His legs specifically scare the **** out of me. I can't help but feel like he'll have knee problems in the future.

[Papi_swav]

Yea I'm good on KCP or anybody near max tbh... I think we should just stand pat and wait for trades with assets to come by because I'm pretty sure there will be some... Like the Hornets, Rockets, Portland etc.. will be looking to give up assets for contracts. I also think were good at the guard positions, just would like a knock down 3 point shooter like Meeks or CJ Miles etc..

yup....

in fact i wouldnt be suprised if we could get KCP or porter in a trade a year from now AND get paid an asset to take them.

kind of like allen crabbe right now.

KCP will become one of the leagues 5 worst contracts the instant he signs the max. detroit will be right at the tax line with a non playoff team

Yea I'm open to the idea of Crabbe now, he's top tier 3 point shooter with size that we need and if he comes with an asset then sure why not. I agree on KCP, I just don't see it in him.

[Prokorov]

Mark's wants to create a defense where all the defenders can switch with ease, right? Think about a core of LeVert/OG/RHJ. You would always have an above average perimeter defender on the court. Russell would've been easily protected on defense. RHJ and OG both have elite defensive potential.

I don't know. I just think we had a tremendous opportunity to have a core with young, hyperathletic defensive studs. Plus I don't think would've been hard to acquire another pick and draft a Center. It was a deep draft when in came to big men. However, it's not every day you get to draft a 19 year old defensive stud who has an NBA ready body to go along with a 8 foot wingspan.

i LOVE OG... he was right near the top of my board with patton and semi. but Allen is a better prospect. and while its great to switch 1 through 4 having a D anchor at center who can blow up pick and rolls and switch on to gaurds and wings an hold his own is even more important.

i think its easier to find a wing who can switch to 2/3/4 then it is a potential anchor at center

The dleague is full of ok defenders who can switch on D 2-3. 2-4 is a little harder but still there. A wing with a 8 foot wingspan though? And elite defensive potential? That's hard to find.

And with Allen I just not sold on him yet. It might just be because he needs to fill out his frame more, but the dude is way too slim. His legs specifically scare the **** out of me. I can't help but feel like he'll have knee problems in the future.

Well if you arent sold on allen thats another story and obviously would prefer OG then.

i like OG too... but the rarest thing is still a defensive anchor. and as far as his frame camby and chandler were rail thin out of college/high school as well. not that he will be as good as those guys but just to point out the thin frame part.

to me allen was a homerun. if he can become a D anchor then our upside as a young team skyrockets

[Paradise]

PJ Tucker to Houston; 4Yrs / $32m - Per Woj


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[Keith Van Horn]

All the plan B and C options are rapidly vanishing, but Porter is still a mystery. I think we may just force the Wiz to let him go once we present that massive offer. Windhorst is even saying now he's not sure what Washington will do.


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[Papi_swav]

i LOVE OG... he was right near the top of my board with patton and semi. but Allen is a better prospect. and while its great to switch 1 through 4 having a D anchor at center who can blow up pick and rolls and switch on to gaurds and wings an hold his own is even more important.

i think its easier to find a wing who can switch to 2/3/4 then it is a potential anchor at center

The dleague is full of ok defenders who can switch on D 2-3. 2-4 is a little harder but still there. A wing with a 8 foot wingspan though? And elite defensive potential? That's hard to find.

And with Allen I just not sold on him yet. It might just be because he needs to fill out his frame more, but the dude is way too slim. His legs specifically scare the **** out of me. I can't help but feel like he'll have knee problems in the future.

Well if you arent sold on allen thats another story and obviously would prefer OG then.

i like OG too... but the rarest thing is still a defensive anchor. and as far as his frame camby and chandler were rail thin out of college/high school as well. not that he will be as good as those guys but just to point out the thin frame part.

to me allen was a homerun. if he can become a D anchor then our upside as a young team skyrockets

Yup Camby and Chandler are still skinny today lol but I think Allen is more loose than both those guys and he can run very well and move laterally good too. I agree Allen was a home run. OG is great defensively but it would of took a little time for his offense to develop. With Allen, we just need putbacks, dunks and lobs on offense for now...

[Hello Brooklyn]

Caroll salary dump is the smartest move. We should get OG or a first round pick in that deal.

Way better than signing KCP to the max.

[imanshar]

Let's see what is still out there:

Allen Williams: Knicks are interested in him, good defensive big who can rebound, I hope we go after him, he is a friend of Dlo too

Porter: likely will be matched

KCP: too short to play SF, meh

Millsap and Ibaka: would be nice but age concerns, they won't sign with us anyway

Taj Gibson: has been linked to us, not sure how to feel but would be a nice addition I guess

Patterson and Olynyk: I am ok with any of them, we need a stretch big

Gallinari: injury prone and no defense

Gay: not a good locker room guy, teams get better when he leaves

All other shooting guards and point gaurds: not worth it

All other RFA: will be matched most likely, nothing worthwhile among them anyway.

[Vae Victus]

Holy crap, 4 years 32 mil was all it took to sign PJ Tucker.

Shoot i totally forgot he was a free agent. He woulda been a nice stopgap SF/PF who can stroke the 3 and play hardnosed defense.

Damn HOU made out like bandits on that deal.

[oldjim]

If we went into the season with:
1. Lin/Dinwiddie
2. DLo/Whitehead
3. Carroll/OG
4. RHJ/Acy
5. Mozgoc/Allen

How do you name Acy and not LeVert?

Oversight. LeVert takes Whitehead's spot obviously.

Levert is good, Whitehead is also good . Whitehead was a suprise on the second half of last season when he move back to SG, he can score and defend, he is a very good defender, if he improve his shooting ,he will be a star. you can see his +/- , it is very good on our team.

Everyone just focus on Russell's scoring talent, but not focus on his defense. Russell / Clarkson's combo was the worst backcourt in the league ranked 30th .If Russell improved his defense ,he will be a good player, but now i don't think he is better than Levert or Whitehead. Lin / Levert / Whitehead also have good scoring skill and defensive skill, it is a balace on scoring and defense.

[13th Man]

..

[Prokorov]

How do you name Acy and not LeVert?

Oversight. LeVert takes Whitehead's spot obviously.

Levert is good, Whitehead is also good . Whitehead was a suprise on the second half of last season when he move back to SG, he can score and defend, he is a very good defender, if he improve his shooting ,he will be a star. you can see his +/- , it is very good on our team.

Everyone just focus on Russell's scoring talent, but not focus on his defense. Russell / Clarkson's combo was the worst backcourt in the league ranked 30th .If Russell improved his defense ,he will be a good player, but now i don't think he is better than Levert or Whitehead. Lin / Levert / Whitehead also have good scoring skill and defensive skill, it is a balace on scoring and defense.

russell is better then both. its not really close between him and whitehead. he also has a much higher ceiling then either of them

[MrDollarBills]

Wow.

[Ror1997]

Whiteheads ceiling is what Russell did last year at 20 you old.

[Prokorov]

Someone talk me into KCP. its looking more and more like a big offer is coming from us and looks like 50/50 or better detroit would not match.

The only 2 things that really give me any kind of optimism is the large volume on which he shot 35% from three (6 per game) and his age.

im having a real tough time justifying a max to someone who is a downgrade offensively to kilpatrick or Bogdanovic. It just seems like paying an insane premium for a 3 and D guy who isnt geat on either end and statistically closer to poor then great on offense

[Ror1997]

Someone talk me into KCP. its looking more and more like a big offer is coming from us and looks like 50/50 or better detroit would not match.

The only 2 things that really give me any kind of optimism is the large volume on which he shot 35% from three (6 per game) and his age.

im having a real tough time justifying a max to someone who is a downgrade offensively to kilpatrick or Bogdanovic. It just seems like paying an insane premium for a 3 and D guy who isnt geat on either end and statistically closer to poor then great on offense

Piston fans think he's the only player who gives a **** when he's on the court. Let's get him away from a cancer like Reggie Jackson (remember Billy King wanting to give him the keys? Oh god) and put him in a system with similar minded players and watch him excel. Above all things, he has the mindset to improve. That's a good sign when making a max investment

[Paradise]

Someone talk me into KCP. its looking more and more like a big offer is coming from us and looks like 50/50 or better detroit would not match.

The only 2 things that really give me any kind of optimism is the large volume on which he shot 35% from three (6 per game) and his age.

im having a real tough time justifying a max to someone who is a downgrade offensively to kilpatrick or Bogdanovic. It just seems like paying an insane premium for a 3 and D guy who isnt geat on either end and statistically closer to poor then great on offense

Defense:

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Offense:

7 Threes vs CHA

Watch on YouTube

8 Threes vs NOP

Watch on YouTube

26 Pts & 2 Clutch shots vs POR

Watch on YouTube

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[Prokorov]

Here is my positive spin i can put on Caldwell-Pope.

Offensively he is very good on the perimeter:
-35% from three on 6 attempts per game
-Only 78% of his threes were catch and shoot
-Excellent shooter off of ball screens from three
-42% on long twos

Watching his highlight and scouting videos his footwork from the triple threat position is outstanding. very patient for the screens and pivots and uses his body well to create space for jumpers or get airspace coming off screens. I can say pretty confidently he is a better 3 point shooter then crabbe whose higher percentage is mostly due to 97% catch and shoot, little off the dribble, and much less volume then KCP

Good in transition on both ends
-Runs the floor hard on both ends. he can go from trailing a play to making a play at the rim with his hustle and speed
-agressive to the rim in transition

In college he blocked a ton of shots in transition, in the pros very few. only 12 blocks last season. but he has the ability to chase them down.


Has alot of room for development
-skill set, hustle, strength are all there
-good footwork
-what he struggles at are all things you can teach
-hasnt improved on much since college, the room to grow is there

I think detroit has done an awful job developing this kid and that might be the most promising thing to look at. if you look at his scouting video:
here is his scouting video:

Watch on YouTube

after 4 years in the league he still has all of those same weaknesses and all the "potential" stuff he hasnt capitalized on yet.

He should be a better defender. he was in the bottom half of SG in DRPM(-1.41) and DRAPM(-0.99) and had a nuetral DBPM. thats not great defense for someone who is supposed to be a 3 and D guy. by comparison RHJ was +1.76 DRPM and +2.24 DRAPM.

He should be a better slasher and finisher at the rim. his percentages there are very low. and after 4 years you dont even see a small incremental upgrade.

He should be a better shot blocker. he doesnt need to be wade but with his athleticism he should get more on closeouts and in transition.

Looking at andre drummond, tobias harris, KCP it looks to me as if stan van gundy and his staff havent done a great job developing talent. my optomistic view would be there is TONS of untapped potential that kenny and marks think they could get out of KCP.

[Prokorov]

Someone talk me into KCP. its looking more and more like a big offer is coming from us and looks like 50/50 or better detroit would not match.

The only 2 things that really give me any kind of optimism is the large volume on which he shot 35% from three (6 per game) and his age.

im having a real tough time justifying a max to someone who is a downgrade offensively to kilpatrick or Bogdanovic. It just seems like paying an insane premium for a 3 and D guy who isnt geat on either end and statistically closer to poor then great on offense

Piston fans think he's the only player who gives a **** when he's on the court. Let's get him away from a cancer like Reggie Jackson (remember Billy King wanting to give him the keys? Oh god) and put him in a system with similar minded players and watch him excel. Above all things, he has the mindset to improve. That's a good sign when making a max investment

yeah i like his makeup as a person/worker. but you need more then that if we are talking a 100 million dollar investment. i am encouraged that detroits development staff seems terrible since drummond and harris havent improved much there. morriss either.

but i mean, what seperates his skill/production/potential from snell or ross?

[Prokorov]

Someone talk me into KCP. its looking more and more like a big offer is coming from us and looks like 50/50 or better detroit would not match.

The only 2 things that really give me any kind of optimism is the large volume on which he shot 35% from three (6 per game) and his age.

im having a real tough time justifying a max to someone who is a downgrade offensively to kilpatrick or Bogdanovic. It just seems like paying an insane premium for a 3 and D guy who isnt geat on either end and statistically closer to poor then great on offense

Defense:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

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The Defensive highlights are nice... but overall he wasnt great defensively:

-1.41 DRPM (63rd among SG)
-0.99 DRAPM (58th among SG)
2.5 DWS
0.0 DBPM
1.09 PPP allowed

if you showed me those numbers and didnt tell me who it was i think all of us would say that looks like a below average defender. again detroit was kind of a mess and defensive metrics are always tough to gauge but i would hope for something closer to at least nuetral defensive metrics

i like the 2 steals a game and work in transition. and he seems tough.

my hope would be the defensive ability is there but the consistency wasnt due to the situation in detroit.

but hard for me to go on those highlights. i mean ive seen mirza lock down lebron for a possesion, bogs lock down wade for a possesion.... hard to go on highltight