2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[MrDollarBills]

This is kind of dicey. I know that we shouldn't be totally averse to risk but man, that is a large amount of cap room to give to a guy who isn't a star.

But then again, the prospect of having a trio of Russell/KCP/LeVert locked in long term is enticing especially if all three continue to develop.

If Marks thinks the risk is worth it, I will roll with it albeit with some anxiety. I've seen enough of KCP to know that he'd fit right in here and is the kind of guy that would compete on both ends and get his hands dirty.

Just keep him off the roads after a few shots and a beer though.

[Papi_swav]

[
I'm mobile right now so I can't check easily, busy didn't Harrison Barnes see slight dip in his % but increase his ppg by 8 or 9 points? If he shots 37-40% from 3 and gets 18 ppg while providing great defense, while being still so young, that'd be perfect for us.

Harrison Barnes is the poster boy of why i DONT want to max porter or KCP.

you give a role guy the max and give him big volume and he might get some raw numbers but if your top option is a role player you are going to be terrible. case in point dallas was terrible.

Barnes posted 19.5 points 5.1 rebounds and 1.5 assists and his percentages dropped drastically across the board with the added volume:

three point%: dipped from 40.5 to 35.1
FG%: dipped from 48.2 to 46.6
TS% dropped from 57.3 to 54.1

He took an extra 5.2 shots per game and only scored and additional 5.9 points.

this is typically what happens when you throw a ton of extra volume at a role player. their raw stats might look better but everything else takes a dip...

Now, dont get me wrong. 19.5 points on 54TS% and 35% from three isnt bad. thats pretty solid. but when your top 2 option is scoring on averagish efficiency you wont be very good on offense or overall. which they werent.

I dont think barnes is a 5th wheel... i think he can be the #3 guy on a good playoff team. but i dont think he is a max guy or a 1-2 option on a good team. and if you pay him the max he has to be a top 2 option unless you can luck into a rookie star.

we dont really have the draft picks to hope a rookie bails us out from a max contract to a role player

Those are pretty good numbers from Barnes and he actually surprised me. I get what your saying, that he isn't a first option and I agree but 24M per year is 3rd option in todays NBA Prok. 1st option guys are getting 30-40 million now, 25 million is like the new 15M today. And the cap will keep on going up so it won't be that bad next year and years after.

[Prokorov]

Those are pretty good numbers from Barnes and he actually surprised me. I get what your saying, that he isn't a first option and I agree but 24M per year is 3rd option in todays NBA Prok. 1st option guys are getting 30-40 million now, 25 million is like the new 15M today. And the cap will keep on going up so it won't be that bad next year and years after.

i understand max/supermax contracts are higher. but your not going to be able to afford to give your 3rd option 25 million a year. the cap is 99 million. you cant afford 3 max guys unless you draft guys who end up getting maxed where you can go over the cap to sign them to big deals. and like i said, we dont have the picks for a young pick to develop into a top 2 option star to bail us out if KCP/Porter were not a star.

Also... the cap isnt going to keep going up. its will rise one more time in 2018-19 and then it will drop in 2019-2020 before the new CBA is negotiated. the increases have also been slashed. next years was supposed to be 108, thne 102, and is no 99. 18-19 was supposed to be 113, then 108, and is now projected at 102.

Ratings have taken a hit. revanue is still good but not near the early projects and the way they structered the CBA they ront loaded alot of the TV deals to get a huge cap jump last year and trimmed it n the last year of the CBA.

so 99 this year, 103 or so next year, and then back to 99 or 100 the last year before a new CBA.

league needs to do something about tanking and superteams or the next CBA won be so lucrative

[Prokorov]

This is kind of dicey. I know that we shouldn't be totally averse to risk but man, that is a large amount of cap room to give to a guy who isn't a star.

But then again, the prospect of having a trio of Russell/KCP/LeVert locked in long term is enticing especially if all three continue to develop.

If Marks thinks the risk is worth it, I will roll with it albeit with some anxiety. I've seen enough of KCP to know that he'd fit right in here and is the kind of guy that would compete on both ends and get his hands dirty.

Just keep him off the roads after a few shots and a beer though.

Yeah i love a Dlo/KCP/Levert/RHJ/Allen unit for the future... especially if Dlo can become a top 25 player and levert/KCP fringe allstars. that team doenst win a title but it would compete for the playoffs and we'd own our picks again.

but we wouldnt be able to add to that core in free agency and once Dlo/Levert/RHJ are due contracts we basically sign up for a treadmill team. which i would honestly be fine with for a young playoff team that plays hard.

Marks would really be hitching his wagon to KCPs development though

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Is it possible for us to offer KCP a special contract designed specifically so that Detroit can't easily match this season by giving him 25 mill but then decreasing in value as the years go on?

Something like
25/20/19/18?

[Ror1997]

Is it possible for us to offer KCP a special contract designed specifically so that Detroit can't easily match this season by giving him 25 mill but then decreasing in value as the years go on?

Something like
25/20/19/18?

Yes.but it's hard to get the player to agree to get paid less as he improves as a player.

[Prokorov]

Is it possible for us to offer KCP a special contract designed specifically so that Detroit can't easily match this season by giving him 25 mill but then decreasing in value as the years go on?

Something like
25/20/19/18?

No, they did away with "poison pill" type contracts. no matter how we structure it they just need to match the annual value. there is also a limit to how much you can front or backload a deal.

Detroit is unlikely to match on a max/near max/ i think 23-25 million gets him. if you are marks and you want him you give him the full max. the extra 2 million per year cap wise doesnt really matter a ton

[Paradise]

Read on Twitter

Carroll/Poeltl/Siakam for Andre Nicholson?



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[TheBrooklynKidd]

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Carroll/Poeltl/Siakam for Andre Nicholson?



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I don't like either of those prospects it was really confusing to me when they took Poetl that high.

What about something like this?

Nicholson + RHJ + Kilpatrick

For

Carroll + OG

Helps us improve at SF, get a *potentially* better prospect, dump Nicholson and open up another roster spot by getting rid of one of our too many guards.

[Kaiser30]

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No, please no.

Is Tim Hardaway Jr. really any better than Sean Kilpatrick?

IMO, definitely not worth 10+ M per year.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

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No, please no.

Is Tim Hardaway Jr. really any better than Sean Kilpatrick?

IMO, definitely not worth 10+ M per year.

THJ is 10x the player Kilpatrick is. He was the 3rd option on a playoff team this season while Kilpatrick was a dumpster fire on the worst team in the league.

He's easily worth more than 10+M I wanted the Nets to draft him over Mason Plummee years ago and it killed me when he went to the Knicks (at least they didn't get Dennis Smith).

However he's not worth what we would have to pay to keep Atlanta from matching.

[Sleepyazn]

Keith Smith is fake news, dude never breaks anything real and just throws rumors around

[MrDollarBills]

This is kind of dicey. I know that we shouldn't be totally averse to risk but man, that is a large amount of cap room to give to a guy who isn't a star.

But then again, the prospect of having a trio of Russell/KCP/LeVert locked in long term is enticing especially if all three continue to develop.

If Marks thinks the risk is worth it, I will roll with it albeit with some anxiety. I've seen enough of KCP to know that he'd fit right in here and is the kind of guy that would compete on both ends and get his hands dirty.

Just keep him off the roads after a few shots and a beer though.

Yeah i love a Dlo/KCP/Levert/RHJ/Allen unit for the future... especially if Dlo can become a top 25 player and levert/KCP fringe allstars. that team doenst win a title but it would compete for the playoffs and we'd own our picks again.

but we wouldnt be able to add to that core in free agency and once Dlo/Levert/RHJ are due contracts we basically sign up for a treadmill team. which i would honestly be fine with for a young playoff team that plays hard.

Marks would really be hitching his wagon to KCPs development though

Would we regain some flexibility once we get Mozgov/Nicholson/Cheeseburger Eating Dog's money off of the books or it's a wash?

Frankly, if we have to shell out cap space to retain LeVert and RHJ that means they're doing well, so its not a bad thing to look ahead to.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

No, please no.

Is Tim Hardaway Jr. really any better than Sean Kilpatrick?

IMO, definitely not worth 10+ M per year.

THJ is 10x the player Kilpatrick is. He was the 3rd option on a playoff team this season while Kilpatrick was a dumpster fire on the worst team in the league.

He's easily worth more than 10+M I wanted the Nets to draft him over Mason Plummee years ago and it killed me when he went to the Knicks (at least they didn't get Dennis Smith).

However he's not worth what we would have to pay to keep Atlanta from matching.

Both of them are negative defenders and have tunnel vision. I wouldn't hitch my wagon to THJr

[3pt_chucker]

Keith Smith is fake news, dude never breaks anything real and just throws rumors around

Yup. Plus our FO does not give out leaks, so I don't see how this guy of all people will have insider info.

I keep seeing that we are linked to KCP, but have we actually set up a meeting like we did with Porter?

I feel like most of our interest in him is media/agent driven.

[Prokorov]

This is kind of dicey. I know that we shouldn't be totally averse to risk but man, that is a large amount of cap room to give to a guy who isn't a star.

But then again, the prospect of having a trio of Russell/KCP/LeVert locked in long term is enticing especially if all three continue to develop.

If Marks thinks the risk is worth it, I will roll with it albeit with some anxiety. I've seen enough of KCP to know that he'd fit right in here and is the kind of guy that would compete on both ends and get his hands dirty.

Just keep him off the roads after a few shots and a beer though.

Yeah i love a Dlo/KCP/Levert/RHJ/Allen unit for the future... especially if Dlo can become a top 25 player and levert/KCP fringe allstars. that team doenst win a title but it would compete for the playoffs and we'd own our picks again.

but we wouldnt be able to add to that core in free agency and once Dlo/Levert/RHJ are due contracts we basically sign up for a treadmill team. which i would honestly be fine with for a young playoff team that plays hard.

Marks would really be hitching his wagon to KCPs development though

Would we regain some flexibility once we get Mozgov/Nicholson/Cheeseburger Eating Dog's money off of the books or it's a wash?

Frankly, if we have to shell out cap space to retain LeVert and RHJ that means they're doing well, so its not a bad thing to look ahead to.

So....

Deron comes off after the 19-20 season
Mozgov comes off after the 19-20 season
Nicholson has an option for 19-20, so basically he comes off ater 19-20.

thats a combined 29.2 million.

Hard to project what guys will get but:

RHJ would be an RFA the summer after 2018-19
DLo woudl be an RFA the summer after the 18-19 season
Levert would be an RGA the summer after the 19-20 season

id think... best case you are looking at 4/60 for RHJ, 4/72 for levert and 4/80 for russell. its likely more then that but lets say best case.

KCP 25M + RHJ 15M + Levert 18M plus DLo 20M = 78 million.

then you have to factor in the other 11 roster spots. even at minimum salary/rookie deals thats another 14 million or so. so thats 94 million.

so basically even when fat turd/mozgod/nicholson come off we are right at the cap and hobestly probably over if RHJ/Levert/Russell prove to be good players

[MrDollarBills]

well, either we will have a good problem on our hands, or we're going to have to let someone walk.

[Kaiser30]

THJ is 10x the player Kilpatrick is. He was the 3rd option on a playoff team this season while Kilpatrick was a dumpster fire on the worst team in the league.

He's easily worth more than 10+M I wanted the Nets to draft him over Mason Plummee years ago and it killed me when he went to the Knicks (at least they didn't get Dennis Smith).

However he's not worth what we would have to pay to keep Atlanta from matching.

Is he really that much better than Kilpatrick?

To me, both are pure scorers with a decent three, but nothing else.

I really see no point to go after him.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

THJ is 10x the player Kilpatrick is. He was the 3rd option on a playoff team this season while Kilpatrick was a dumpster fire on the worst team in the league.

He's easily worth more than 10+M I wanted the Nets to draft him over Mason Plummee years ago and it killed me when he went to the Knicks (at least they didn't get Dennis Smith).

However he's not worth what we would have to pay to keep Atlanta from matching.

Is he really that much better than Kilpatrick?

To me, both are pure scorers with a decent three, but nothing else.

I really see no point to go after him.

Yea he is and it's not even close.

I don't really want him at his price tag either but comparing him to Kilpatrick is just insulting.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

well, either we will have a good problem on our hands, or we're going to have to let someone walk.

We should trade RHJ before he ever gets to that price tag IMO.