Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIII

[nate33]

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Let's dream of a Mahinmi dump.

Hypothetical: suppose we did dump Mahinmi and renounce Bojan. How far would we be from getting in the game for Millsap?

I wouldn't sacrifice any assets to dump Mahinmi. The fact is, we need a good backup center, so keeping him isn't a big liability. Also, if we keep him and he stays healthy, it will be much easier and cheaper to dump him next year after a year of healthy play and his contract being a year shorter.

Never sell low.

[nate33]

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Let's dream of a Mahinmi dump.

Hypothetical: suppose we did dump Mahinmi and renounce Bojan. How far would we be from getting in the game for Millsap?

Pretty far. We would have to create max room under the cap unless we completed a sign and trade to acquire his bird rights I believe.

Pretty sure even after using assets to dump Mahinmi for 16 mil and renouncing Bojans cap hold it would still only get us a few million below the cap. If they could dump Mahinmi on Atlanta in a sign and trade Millsap deal, then we're talking. But why the hell would they do that?

And Keef was an idiot to Millsap in that series, he ain't coming here.

No if we dump mahinmi and renounce bojan that's 23 mill in cap room. Because Otto is restricted and does not count for more than his cap hold let's say he signs for 23 a year we would have 14 mill if we dumped mahinmi and renounced bojan, but before Otto sings we would have 23 mill in cap room give or take a mill or two

Otto's cap hold is 250% of his current salary, or about $14.5M. Even if we dump Mahinmi and renounce Bojan, we would have a cap number of $93M. That's less cap room than the MLE.

The only way to get Millsap is a S&T.

[nate33]

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

Actually, a qualifying offer can be withdrawn at any time up until July 13th.

[gambitx777]

No if we dump mahinmi and renounce bojan that's 23 mill in cap room. Because Otto is restricted and does not count for more than his cap hold let's say he signs for 23 a year we would have 14 mill if we dumped mahinmi and renounced bojan, but before Otto sings we would have 23 mill in cap room give or take a mill or two

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

2. How many times do you have to add up the guaranteed salaries & so forth before you understand that we have NO ROOM.

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

[dckingsfan]

No if we dump mahinmi and renounce bojan that's 23 mill in cap room. Because Otto is restricted and does not count for more than his cap hold let's say he signs for 23 a year we would have 14 mill if we dumped mahinmi and renounced bojan, but before Otto sings we would have 23 mill in cap room give or take a mill or two

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

2. How many times do you have to add up the guaranteed salaries & so forth before you understand that we have NO ROOM.

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

Wouldn't it be a pair of S&Ts, (Mahinmi or Gortat) + Bogs (signed to a contract) for Millsap?

[nate33]

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

2. How many times do you have to add up the guaranteed salaries & so forth before you understand that we have NO ROOM.

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

Wouldn't it be a pair of S&Ts, (Mahinmi or Gortat) + Bogs (signed to a contract) for Millsap?

Yes.

[nate33]

No if we dump mahinmi and renounce bojan that's 23 mill in cap room. Because Otto is restricted and does not count for more than his cap hold let's say he signs for 23 a year we would have 14 mill if we dumped mahinmi and renounced bojan, but before Otto sings we would have 23 mill in cap room give or take a mill or two

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

2. How many times do you have to add up the guaranteed salaries & so forth before you understand that we have NO ROOM.

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

You are not accounting for Porter's $14.5M cap hold.

[payitforward]

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Let's dream of a Mahinmi dump.

Hypothetical: suppose we did dump Mahinmi and renounce Bojan. How far would we be from getting in the game for Millsap?

I wouldn't sacrifice any assets to dump Mahinmi. The fact is, we need a good backup center, so keeping him isn't a big liability. Also, if we keep him and he stays healthy, it will be much easier and cheaper to dump him next year after a year of healthy play and his contract being a year shorter.

Never sell low*.

And, never waste time worrying about a sunk cost. Instead, try to make sure that the next thing you do is intelligent. We haven't seen much of that.

Millsap is a very good player. But it would be a mistake to mortgage any more of our future to acquire him. If a title is our goal (I don't think it's Ernie or Ted's goal at all, btw), we should be acquiring young assets and playing for 3 years from now. Not tweaking for this coming season, when no matter what there is no title chance.

Our 3 best assets -- our only assets that are almost sure to be outstanding 3 years from now -- are Wall, Beal & Porter. Oubre has potential to make that 4. I like to think that Sheldon and Sato can become very solid NBA players by then as well.

Assuming we give away no more future picks, & assuming we have the good sense to learn from the GS strategy of buying into R2 to acquire an underrated guy, we have the chance to be legitimate contenders by then. I don't see how it could happen with Ernie at the helm, however. Nothing of the kind.

* "Never sell low" -- unless to insure your survival; my family can tell you plenty about that.

[payitforward]

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

Actually, a qualifying offer can be withdrawn at any time up until July 13th.

Aahh -- thanks! Here's hoping that's what we do.

[payitforward]

No if we dump mahinmi and renounce bojan that's 23 mill in cap room. Because Otto is restricted and does not count for more than his cap hold let's say he signs for 23 a year we would have 14 mill if we dumped mahinmi and renounced bojan, but before Otto sings we would have 23 mill in cap room give or take a mill or two

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

2. How many times do you have to add up the guaranteed salaries & so forth before you understand that we have NO ROOM.

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

My mistake about bojan & the qualifying offer -- sorry! Lets assume we withdraw the offer. Now, if we trade Mahinmi for no salary in return, that is very helpful, no question about it!

We'd be at @ just under $79m for 10 guys (w/ Sheldon). If we got Porter signed for $20m, that'd be $99m/11 players. We'd be over the cap & have only 1 Center on our team, & that guy at 33 years old.

I can't see how we could go into the season that way, do you? So I guess the next priority would be to acquire as good a C as possible, using the MLE. Would you agree? That would take us to about 108m for 12 guys. If, along the way, we'd somehow acquired Millsap for lets say $12m, we would be in tax territory : $120m for 13 players.

OTOH, we could use the Room exception rather than the full MLE to acquire a Center (who?). In that case, there does seem some possibility of getting to 17 (e.g. sign Robinson, Young, Keene & Ochefu?) while remaining just under tax territory.

You know what, Gambit? If this makes you happy, go ahead & do it. As long as we don't give up any draft picks to dump Mahinmi!

Of course, Millsap might cost more than $12m. & Otto might cost more than $20m. Then we are likely back in lux tax land, where I don't think we are likely to want to go.

[nate33]

1. We have already extended Bojan a qualifying offer. Can you please not keep talking about "renouncing" him?

2. How many times do you have to add up the guaranteed salaries & so forth before you understand that we have NO ROOM.

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

My mistake about bojan & the qualifying offer -- sorry! Lets assume we withdraw the offer. Now, if we trade Mahinmi for no salary in return, that is very helpful, no question about it!

We'd be at @ just under $79m for 10 guys (w/ Sheldon). If we got Porter signed for $20m, that'd be $99m/11 players. We'd be over the cap & have only 1 Center on our team, & that guy at 33 years old.

I can't see how we could go into the season that way, do you? So I guess the next priority would be to acquire as good a C as possible, using the MLE. Would you agree? That would take us to about 108m for 12 guys. If, along the way, we'd somehow acquired Millsap for lets say $12m, we would be in tax territory : $120m for 13 players.

OTOH, we could use the Room exception rather than the full MLE to acquire a Center (who?). In that case, there does seem some possibility of getting to 17 (e.g. sign Robinson, Young, Keene & Ochefu?) while remaining just under tax territory.

You know what, Gambit? If this makes you happy, go ahead & do it. As long as we don't give up any draft picks to dump Mahinmi!

Of course, Millsap might cost more than $12m. & Otto might cost more than $20m. Then we are likely back in lux tax land, where I don't think we are likely to want to go.

Management has claimed (perhaps disingenuously) that they would exceed the luxtax for the right player. I'm pretty certain that Bogdanovic is NOT the right player, but Paul Millsap might be.

[Benjammin]

I'll believe it when I see it them paying the luxury tax more than one isolated year. First, you pay that player. Then you pay the luxury tax. Plus you don't get the luxury tax payout as a tax paying team.

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

[Dark Faze]

can't believe we're going to end up having rented Bojan in a VERY deep draft and NOT keep him because of tax issues anyone with a calculator could have seen coming

come the eff on--you gotta fire Ernie for this kind of thing. Jodie Meeks will not be an adequate replacement

[ozthegap]

Why are we not doing anything wall pretty much gave you an ultimatum.

They don't care. Ted won't pay lux tax even if it means losing Wall.

What do you want them to do? Rush like last season when they signed Mahinmi, Nicholson, Smith, Thornton and traded for Burke? I'll take patience and going for bench scraps. I'm resigned to the fact that they'll basically be the same, save for at least 2 new bench additions. The only guy I'd like to see gone is Gortat, not Mahinmi. We need Mahinmi's defense against the PNR. But neither appears to be tradeable right now, but you never know when you get to the trade deadline.

What I want Ted to do is sell the team to someone who cares about basketball. Every player in the league knows that that's not what this organization is about. That's why they constantly choose the other guy.

[Dark Faze]

They don't care. Ted won't pay lux tax even if it means losing Wall.

What do you want them to do? Rush like last season when they signed Mahinmi, Nicholson, Smith, Thornton and traded for Burke? I'll take patience and going for bench scraps. I'm resigned to the fact that they'll basically be the same, save for at least 2 new bench additions. The only guy I'd like to see gone is Gortat, not Mahinmi. We need Mahinmi's defense against the PNR. But neither appears to be tradeable right now, but you never know when you get to the trade deadline.

What I want Ted to do is sell the team to someone who cares about basketball. Every player in the league knows that that's not what this organization is about. That's why they constantly choose the other guy.

+1000

[payitforward]

You can recend a QA at any point in time, teams do it all the time. Pif I can do the math, lol ive done it, if you recend your QA for bogz, that gets rid of his cap hold. 7 million off the books. that adds up to 96 mill if I believe, Plus we were talking if we dumped mahinmi, that would give us cap room. putting us at 80, so my math was a bit off then, my bad lol.

My mistake about bojan & the qualifying offer -- sorry! Lets assume we withdraw the offer. Now, if we trade Mahinmi for no salary in return, that is very helpful, no question about it!

We'd be at @ just under $79m for 10 guys (w/ Sheldon). If we got Porter signed for $20m, that'd be $99m/11 players. We'd be over the cap & have only 1 Center on our team, & that guy at 33 years old.

I can't see how we could go into the season that way, do you? So I guess the next priority would be to acquire as good a C as possible, using the MLE. Would you agree? That would take us to about 108m for 12 guys. If, along the way, we'd somehow acquired Millsap for lets say $12m, we would be in tax territory : $120m for 13 players.

OTOH, we could use the Room exception rather than the full MLE to acquire a Center (who?). In that case, there does seem some possibility of getting to 17 (e.g. sign Robinson, Young, Keene & Ochefu?) while remaining just under tax territory.

You know what, Gambit? If this makes you happy, go ahead & do it. As long as we don't give up any draft picks to dump Mahinmi!

Of course, Millsap might cost more than $12m. & Otto might cost more than $20m. Then we are likely back in lux tax land, where I don't think we are likely to want to go.

Management has claimed (perhaps disingenuously) that they would exceed the luxtax for the right player. I'm pretty certain that Bogdanovic is NOT the right player, but Paul Millsap might be.

I also forgot that even w/ Mahinmi gone, we do have Smith at back up Center.

If Millsap really pulls in $25m, then to the "just under $79m for 10 guys (w/ Sheldon)" you'd add at least $45m (w/ Porter) to get to 12 players @ $124m. How do we get to 15, let alone 17?

Moreover, at that point, yes, we've added Millsap, which improves us. But, we've subtracted Mahinmi, leaving us with a weaker Center rotation. So that makes us worse. I wonder whether we are sufficiently improved to warrant the trip into lux-tax lane.

Actually, I'm being disingenuous. I don't "wonder" at all. We aren't sufficiently improved to warrant what's required.

[payitforward]

can't believe we're going to end up having rented Bojan in a VERY deep draft and NOT keep him because of tax issues anyone with a calculator could have seen coming

come the eff on--you gotta fire Ernie for this kind of thing. Jodie Meeks will not be an adequate replacement

We didn't rent Bojan, faze. We got rid of Nicholson. That was the purpose of the trade. It wouldn't be any better if we kept Bojan.

So what you really mean is that Ernie should be fired for his work last off-season. Only thing is... did you object to signing Nicholson? Did you object to actually trading away an asset (of any kind) to acquire Burke?

I don't remember, to tell the truth. But, if you didn't, then you don't get to complain about Ernie until you fess up how wrong you were.

In fact, take it back to the idiotic trade of a R1 pick for Markieff Morris. Were you against that, or did you think it was an ok move?

[keynote]

can't believe we're going to end up having rented Bojan in a VERY deep draft and NOT keep him because of tax issues anyone with a calculator could have seen coming

come the eff on--you gotta fire Ernie for this kind of thing. Jodie Meeks will not be an adequate replacement

We didn't rent Bojan, faze. We got rid of Nicholson. That was the purpose of the trade. It wouldn't be any better if we kept Bojan.

So what you really mean is that Ernie should be fired for his work last off-season. Only thing is... did you object to signing Nicholson? Did you object to actually trading away an asset (of any kind) to acquire Burke?

I don't remember, to tell the truth. But, if you didn't, then you don't get to complain about Ernie until you fess up how wrong you were.

In fact, take it back to the idiotic trade of a R1 pick for Markieff Morris. Were you against that, or did you think it was an ok move?

I normally don't wade into these back-and-forths, but that's not a fair position to take. I (as a fan, with limited access to information) can think the Nicholson signing or the Burke trade were good moves, and still be disappointed that the GM (who has access to more information, including a staff of scouts/advisors) isn't held accountable when the moves turn out to be sour. This idea that only those who had the foresight (and/or luck) to criticize moves in advance have the right to complain is a bit silly. I want EG to be better at evaluating players and negotiating deals than fans are in their spare time; is that too much to ask?

[gambitx777]

My mistake about bojan & the qualifying offer -- sorry! Lets assume we withdraw the offer. Now, if we trade Mahinmi for no salary in return, that is very helpful, no question about it!

We'd be at @ just under $79m for 10 guys (w/ Sheldon). If we got Porter signed for $20m, that'd be $99m/11 players. We'd be over the cap & have only 1 Center on our team, & that guy at 33 years old.

I can't see how we could go into the season that way, do you? So I guess the next priority would be to acquire as good a C as possible, using the MLE. Would you agree? That would take us to about 108m for 12 guys. If, along the way, we'd somehow acquired Millsap for lets say $12m, we would be in tax territory : $120m for 13 players.

OTOH, we could use the Room exception rather than the full MLE to acquire a Center (who?). In that case, there does seem some possibility of getting to 17 (e.g. sign Robinson, Young, Keene & Ochefu?) while remaining just under tax territory.

You know what, Gambit? If this makes you happy, go ahead & do it. As long as we don't give up any draft picks to dump Mahinmi!

Of course, Millsap might cost more than $12m. & Otto might cost more than $20m. Then we are likely back in lux tax land, where I don't think we are likely to want to go.

Management has claimed (perhaps disingenuously) that they would exceed the luxtax for the right player. I'm pretty certain that Bogdanovic is NOT the right player, but Paul Millsap might be.

I also forgot that even w/ Mahinmi gone, we do have Smith at back up Center.

If Millsap really pulls in $25m, then to the "just under $79m for 10 guys (w/ Sheldon)" you'd add at least $45m (w/ Porter) to get to 12 players @ $124m. How do we get to 15, let alone 17?

Moreover, at that point, yes, we've added Millsap, which improves us. But, we've subtracted Mahinmi, leaving us with a weaker Center rotation. So that makes us worse. I wonder whether we are sufficiently improved to warrant the trip into lux-tax lane.

Actually, I'm being disingenuous. I don't "wonder" at all. We aren't sufficiently improved to warrant what's required.

Well My plan is to use that cap room to sign someone, before otto signs an offer sheet or our offer, like we did with beal. then go over the tax if needed to keep otto.

[80sballboy]

They don't care. Ted won't pay lux tax even if it means losing Wall.

What do you want them to do? Rush like last season when they signed Mahinmi, Nicholson, Smith, Thornton and traded for Burke? I'll take patience and going for bench scraps. I'm resigned to the fact that they'll basically be the same, save for at least 2 new bench additions. The only guy I'd like to see gone is Gortat, not Mahinmi. We need Mahinmi's defense against the PNR. But neither appears to be tradeable right now, but you never know when you get to the trade deadline.

What I want Ted to do is sell the team to someone who cares about basketball. Every player in the league knows that that's not what this organization is about. That's why they constantly choose the other guy.

Ok. That's not happening. Because this is what we are stuck with and I'd rather have this team than any other squad we've had since 1979. I wouldn't blame you for rooting for GS or Cleveland if you only want titles. I have low expectations for Ernie and Ted. One can't draft and one won't go the extra way to win the big one. Look at the Caps. He's concerned about the bottom line, which is put together a good enough team on the floor or the ice to get sellouts or close to it in hoops. EG f-ed up last season and we're paying for it with another lackluster group of free agents with no draft picks. If there is a silver lining it's that the East is still the Least.