Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIII

[payitforward]

can't believe we're going to end up having rented Bojan in a VERY deep draft and NOT keep him because of tax issues anyone with a calculator could have seen coming

come the eff on--you gotta fire Ernie for this kind of thing. Jodie Meeks will not be an adequate replacement

We didn't rent Bojan, faze. We got rid of Nicholson. That was the purpose of the trade. It wouldn't be any better if we kept Bojan.

So what you really mean is that Ernie should be fired for his work last off-season. Only thing is... did you object to signing Nicholson? Did you object to actually trading away an asset (of any kind) to acquire Burke?

I don't remember, to tell the truth. But, if you didn't, then you don't get to complain about Ernie until you fess up how wrong you were.

In fact, take it back to the idiotic trade of a R1 pick for Markieff Morris. Were you against that, or did you think it was an ok move?

I normally don't wade into these back-and-forths, but that's not a fair position to take. I (as a fan, with limited access to information) can think the Nicholson signing or the Burke trade were good moves, and still be disappointed that the GM (who has access to more information, including a staff of scouts/advisors) isn't held accountable when the moves turn out to be sour. This idea that only those who had the foresight (and/or luck) to criticize moves in advance have the right to complain is a bit silly....

It certainly is. Then again, it's not what I said. I didn't suggest that Faze had to be right about those moves. What I said was that if he'd supported those moves he had to fess up that he'd been wrong. Not the same.

(At the same time, both these moves were obviously, overwhelmingly awful. Burke had shown himself to be a terrible NBA player -- & he'd had 6000 minutes to do so!

Nicholson had managed to earn 800 minutes on a terrible team, a team much worse than the Wizards. A team which then let him go w/o even extending a qualifying offer. Yet we signed him to be the main backup at PF & gave him a 4 year contract.)

[Dark Faze]

I mean, I thought literally every move Ernie made in the offseason was bad. I to this day don't believe Mahinmi can be trusted with a starting role and wasn't worth the money as a backup. A second for Burke--I could take it or leave it. I knew Nicholson was an absolute bum from jump. I didn't want Smith because I didn't think he fit with the way the league was going at all.

So yea, I wouldn't have made any of those moves. Bojan might not have been the primary aim of moving Nicholson's contract--I suspect given the actions we see now it was mostly to do exactly what Ernie has thus far done: get under the tax, while stopping the fanbase from raging out by providing bench help at the same time. We see it for what it obviously is now: a cap savings move. And they lied to our face and tried to paint it as a correctional move meant to help this team win basketball games when that was a secondary, not a primary focus.

Hell I go even further back to when I'd have fired him--the second Durant wasn't going to give us a meeting I'd have fired him. I'd have fired him a dozen times before that, but I'd have fired him again then, because if your sources are that awful as a decade + GM that you can't even make a few calls to know whether or not you'll get a MEETING, not even some kind of understanding of if KD would sign here, but just that you'd even get a MEETING, my god, what are you good for? You obviously can't run the team well. You can't draft for ****. Now you're telling me you don't have have connections throughout the league after all these years as a GM?

[payitforward]

I mean, I thought literally every move Ernie made in the offseason was bad. I to this day don't believe Mahinmi can be trusted with a starting role and wasn't worth the money as a backup. A second for Burke--I could take it or leave it. I knew Nicholson was an absolute bum from jump. I didn't want Smith because I didn't think he fit with the way the league was going at all.

So yea, I wouldn't have made any of those moves. Bojan might not have been the primary aim of moving Nicholson's contract--I suspect given the actions we see now it was mostly to do exactly what Ernie has thus far done: get under the tax, while stopping the fanbase from raging out by providing bench help at the same time. We see it for what it obviously is now: a cap savings move. And they lied to our face and tried to paint it as a correctional move meant to help this team win basketball games when that was a secondary, not a primary focus.

Hell I go even further back to when I'd have fired him--the second Durant wasn't going to give us a meeting I'd have fired him. I'd have fired him a dozen times before that, but I'd have fired him again then, because if your sources are that awful as a decade + GM that you can't even make a few calls to know whether or not you'll get a MEETING, not even some kind of understanding of if KD would sign here, but just that you'd even get a MEETING, my god, what are you good for? You obviously can't run the team well. You can't draft for ****. Now you're telling me you don't have have connections throughout the league after all these years as a GM?

I don't think it was a cap move; I think it was Ernie burying one of his mistakes -- he's very good at that (having had a lot of practice).

All the same Bojan is not a very good NBA player; it's fine for him to be gone.

[Dark Faze]

All the same Bojan is not a very good NBA player; it's fine for him to be gone.

The guy has averaged a 59% TS over the last three years. He's a GOOD player. Is he bad defensively? Sure he is! And as I've said many times before, if you can't hide one guy off your bench then his defense isn't the problem, its the makeup of your team.

Secondly as I keep saying, it's better to have his contract to trade than not to have it. Because we literally get nothing but cap savings by losing him. The opportunity cost is dumb.

Lets say Meeks clearly can't play anymore and we've got the same rotation of Sato/Oubre/etc trash bench as usual. What assets will we have to improve the bench? We have to look to a first again? If you had Bojan by comparison, it's realistic that you could move him for a "better fit", or in combination with another player for a clear upgrade.

There's almost zero argument for not keeping him aside from "Ted didn't have to pay the tax yay!"

[Benjammin]

Ted is not going to end up paying Bogo 20-30+ million or wherever it would be by the time you pay his salary, pay the luxury tax and miss out on their cut of the luxury tax payments. And the repeater tax is especially punitive. If they do, I will be very surprised.

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[montestewart]

All the same Bojan is not a very good NBA player; it's fine for him to be gone.

The guy has averaged a 59% TS over the last three years. He's a GOOD player. Is he bad defensively? Sure he is! And as I've said many times before, if you can't hide one guy off your bench then his defense isn't the problem, its the makeup of your team.

Secondly as I keep saying, it's better to have his contract to trade than not to have it. Because we literally get nothing but cap savings by losing him. The opportunity cost is dumb.

Lets say Meeks clearly can't play anymore and we've got the same rotation of Sato/Oubre/etc trash bench as usual. What assets will we have to improve the bench? We have to look to a first again? If you had Bojan by comparison, it's realistic that you could move him for a "better fit", or in combination with another player for a clear upgrade.

There's almost zero argument for not keeping him aside from "Ted didn't have to pay the tax yay!"

I get it. It's a sign-and-trade, but the Wizards don't know who wants Bog-Diddy, and they don't know who they want in return. Otherwise, exactly like a sign-and-trade. It's like a sign-and-trade to be named later.

I'm starting to see the brilliance in a lot of EGgo's signings (Maynor, Nicholson) and re-ups (Deshawn, Gilbert). If he hadn't signed them, he wouldn't have been able to trade them.

[keynote]

Millsap to Denver.

Are there any big splashes left? A S&T sending Bogs (at or near his ridiculous $16m/yr asking price) + Mahinmi to NYC for Melo and Noah?

[Benjammin]

Millsap to Denver.

Are there any big splashes left? A S&T sending Bogs (at or near his ridiculous $16m/yr asking price) + Mahinmi to NYC for Melo and Noah?

Wow, that's painfully bad.

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[mhd]

Well, Denver now has:

PG: Murray/Nelson/Mudiay
SG: Harris/Barton/Murray
SF: Chandler/Barton
PF: Milsapp/Faried/Lyles/Arthur
C: Jokic/Plumlee/Arthur

Really fun team. I've always liked Faried as an energy big. He's been seemingly on the block forever, yet no takers.

[montestewart]

Millsap to Denver.

Are there any big splashes left? A S&T sending Bogs (at or near his ridiculous $16m/yr asking price) + Mahinmi to NYC for Melo and Noah?

$16m/yr? Hmmm...maybe they can trade him for Mahinmi?

Seriously, is that what he's asking for? Juh-seezus!

[keynote]

Well, Denver now has:

PG: Murray/Nelson/Mudiay
SG: Harris/Barton/Murray
SF: Chandler/Barton
PF: Milsapp/Faried/Lyles/Arthur
C: Jokic/Plumlee/Arthur

Really fun team. I've always liked Faried as an energy big. He's been seemingly on the block forever, yet no takers.

The Nugs had been one of the teams rumored to be interested in Bojan. A S&T might work.

[JWizmentality]

My god the East is going to be a sh*t show this year. I guess that's good for us but when have we capitalized on anything. 50 wins was supposed to be a shoe in this year then they laid a giant turd post asb.

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[MOrgil]

Rondo and Darren Collison still available, Wizards should have tried to sign one of them cheap (max MLE) instead of trading pick for Tim Frazier.

[gambitx777]

Yo if the nugs still want Bogz, not sure why they would, but if hey do, I would 100% load up a S&T for Fraid. He would be a great addition to our bench, we need more rebounding and defence on the bench.

[pcbothwel]

Well, Denver now has:

PG: Murray/Nelson/Mudiay
SG: Harris/Barton/Murray
SF: Chandler/Barton
PF: Milsapp/Faried/Lyles/Arthur
C: Jokic/Plumlee/Arthur

Really fun team. I've always liked Faried as an energy big. He's been seemingly on the block forever, yet no takers.

The Nugs had been one of the teams rumored to be interested in Bojan. A S&T might work.

mhd also missed hernangomez and the newly drafted Lydon.
Their PF depth is insane. I'd love to get Hernangomez


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[skywalker33]

Well, Denver now has:

PG: Murray/Nelson/Mudiay
SG: Harris/Barton/Murray
SF: Chandler/Barton
PF: Milsapp/Faried/Lyles/Arthur
C: Jokic/Plumlee/Arthur

Really fun team. I've always liked Faried as an energy big. He's been seemingly on the block forever, yet no takers.

The Nugs had been one of the teams rumored to be interested in Bojan. A S&T might work.

mhd also missed hernangomez and the newly drafted Lydon.
Their PF depth is insane. I'd love to get Hernangomez


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Also forgot Beasley but most do as he really hasn't established himself yet but we know about him in DEN

Juancho is expected to see some time at SF, so I doubt Bogs is coming to DEN, especially for Faried. S&T's only all 50% of the incoming new salary and NO WAY does he get $26M (now for Porter, maybe...)

[Meliorus]

All the same Bojan is not a very good NBA player; it's fine for him to be gone.

The guy has averaged a 59% TS over the last three years. He's a GOOD player. Is he bad defensively? Sure he is! And as I've said many times before, if you can't hide one guy off your bench then his defense isn't the problem, its the makeup of your team.

Secondly as I keep saying, it's better to have his contract to trade than not to have it. Because we literally get nothing but cap savings by losing him. The opportunity cost is dumb.

Lets say Meeks clearly can't play anymore and we've got the same rotation of Sato/Oubre/etc trash bench as usual. What assets will we have to improve the bench? We have to look to a first again? If you had Bojan by comparison, it's realistic that you could move him for a "better fit", or in combination with another player for a clear upgrade.

There's almost zero argument for not keeping him aside from "Ted didn't have to pay the tax yay!"

RPM of -3.88. That factors in offense AND defense. 91st among shooting guards. That number stayed the same when he moved from Brooklyn to DC.

You can scream, "advanced stats aren't reliable blah blah blah", but they sure are when the stats are shockingly egregious. When the data screams, EXTREME outlier, this is an awful player, don't try to then rationalize the player with completely subjective/meaningless stats. Pull up Bojan's on-and-off numbers, I dare you.

This is a guy who needs to pay to play in the NBA. For all the crap that Lou Williams gets, that guy had the 6th best RPM among shooting guards because his offensive impact was MASSIVE enough to offset his defense.

Eventually the NBA will be devoid of GM's who don't operate like Daryl Morey. Too many NBA fans can be sweet talked into believing any player is good.

[NatP4]

So now we give Patrick Patterson the MLE or something? Yay

[Meliorus]

So now we give Patrick Patterson the MLE or something? Yay

Wait what? Patterson will be getting at least 20 million annually.

[NatP4]

So now we give Patrick Patterson the MLE or something? Yay

Wait what? Patterson will be getting at least 20 million annually.

Come again