RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7

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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#121 » by andrewww » Mon Jul 3, 2017 2:43 am

oldschooled wrote:For those guys having Hakeem over Shaq, was it just the issues/mental focus that Shaq caused the team? Every explanation was that Shaq was detrimental to the team blah blah. But are we just going to forget Hakeem on his pre-title Hakeem version? Shaq was playing on Hakeem's level in just his 3rd year (3RD YEAR!) against Hakeem on the peak of his powers.

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Rk             Player  Season Age  G   PER  TS%  TOV%  USG% OWS DWS   WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1    Shaquille ONeal* 1994-95  22 79  28.6 .588   9.4  31.9 9.6 4.4 14.0    .230  4.5  0.9 5.4  5.4
2    Hakeem Olajuwon* 1994-95  32 72  26.0 .563  11.7  31.7 5.1 5.6 10.7    .181  1.3  4.0 5.3  5.3


Then Shaq went toe to toe against Hakeem in the Finals. This was the Hakeem that outplayed the MVP David Robinson in the series. The Rockets then sweep the young and inexperience but talented Magic team but i cant pin that down on Shaq with Nick Anderson missing those ft's etc.


Shaq is the Lebron of centers. A couple of incredible go to moves, but if you're able to take that away then their play becomes much easier to manage and both have weaknesses that are painfully obvious to exploit. Orlando Shaq was also much closer to his peak than most of this forum realizes. Shaq's teams didn't become title contenders until.. you guessed it, Kobe hit his prime.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#122 » by RCM88x » Mon Jul 3, 2017 2:51 am

andrewww wrote:
oldschooled wrote:For those guys having Hakeem over Shaq, was it just the issues/mental focus that Shaq caused the team? Every explanation was that Shaq was detrimental to the team blah blah. But are we just going to forget Hakeem on his pre-title Hakeem version? Shaq was playing on Hakeem's level in just his 3rd year (3RD YEAR!) against Hakeem on the peak of his powers.

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Rk             Player  Season Age  G   PER  TS%  TOV%  USG% OWS DWS   WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1    Shaquille ONeal* 1994-95  22 79  28.6 .588   9.4  31.9 9.6 4.4 14.0    .230  4.5  0.9 5.4  5.4
2    Hakeem Olajuwon* 1994-95  32 72  26.0 .563  11.7  31.7 5.1 5.6 10.7    .181  1.3  4.0 5.3  5.3


Then Shaq went toe to toe against Hakeem in the Finals. This was the Hakeem that outplayed the MVP David Robinson in the series. The Rockets then sweep the young and inexperience but talented Magic team but i cant pin that down on Shaq with Nick Anderson missing those ft's etc.


Shaq is the Lebron of centers. A couple of incredible go to moves, but if you're able to take that away then their play becomes much easier to manage and both have weaknesses that are painfully obvious to exploit. Orlando Shaq was also much closer to his peak than most of this forum realizes. Shaq's teams didn't become title contenders until.. you guessed it, Kobe hit his prime.


So you consider 2000 Kobe his prime?
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#123 » by andrewww » Mon Jul 3, 2017 2:57 am

RCM88x wrote:
andrewww wrote:
oldschooled wrote:For those guys having Hakeem over Shaq, was it just the issues/mental focus that Shaq caused the team? Every explanation was that Shaq was detrimental to the team blah blah. But are we just going to forget Hakeem on his pre-title Hakeem version? Shaq was playing on Hakeem's level in just his 3rd year (3RD YEAR!) against Hakeem on the peak of his powers.

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Rk             Player  Season Age  G   PER  TS%  TOV%  USG% OWS DWS   WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1    Shaquille ONeal* 1994-95  22 79  28.6 .588   9.4  31.9 9.6 4.4 14.0    .230  4.5  0.9 5.4  5.4
2    Hakeem Olajuwon* 1994-95  32 72  26.0 .563  11.7  31.7 5.1 5.6 10.7    .181  1.3  4.0 5.3  5.3


Then Shaq went toe to toe against Hakeem in the Finals. This was the Hakeem that outplayed the MVP David Robinson in the series. The Rockets then sweep the young and inexperience but talented Magic team but i cant pin that down on Shaq with Nick Anderson missing those ft's etc.


Shaq is the Lebron of centers. A couple of incredible go to moves, but if you're able to take that away then their play becomes much easier to manage and both have weaknesses that are painfully obvious to exploit. Orlando Shaq was also much closer to his peak than most of this forum realizes. Shaq's teams didn't become title contenders until.. you guessed it, Kobe hit his prime.


So you consider 2000 Kobe his prime?


Depends on how you define prime, but probably yeah. You could argue any year from 99/00/01 could be the start of his prime. 2nd team all-nba, 1st team all-defense (when he actually deserved this recognition). Got Jalen Rose'd in the Final on purpose, closed out game 4 at Indy on the road while Shaq fouled out.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#124 » by Pablo Novi » Mon Jul 3, 2017 3:18 am

I'm figuratively speaking, deleting this post.

I couldn't see what the results of the voting for GOAT #6 was at the time I first wrote this. Then this page locked up on me and I couldn't edit it.

Now that I see how that vote came out; I've written and posted a new post, a few posts below this one.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#125 » by colts18 » Mon Jul 3, 2017 3:19 am

andrewww wrote:
Shaq is the Lebron of centers. A couple of incredible go to moves, but if you're able to take that away then their play becomes much easier to manage and both have weaknesses that are painfully obvious to exploit. Orlando Shaq was also much closer to his peak than most of this forum realizes. Shaq's teams didn't become title contenders until.. you guessed it, Kobe hit his prime.

Shaq won a title with Kobe playing like crap. Kobe had one of the worst finals performances ever for a star player that won a series. Find me a star who did worse than 16/5/4, 37 FG%, 20 3P% and won a finals.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#126 » by An Unbiased Fan » Mon Jul 3, 2017 3:42 am

colts18 wrote:
andrewww wrote:
Shaq is the Lebron of centers. A couple of incredible go to moves, but if you're able to take that away then their play becomes much easier to manage and both have weaknesses that are painfully obvious to exploit. Orlando Shaq was also much closer to his peak than most of this forum realizes. Shaq's teams didn't become title contenders until.. you guessed it, Kobe hit his prime.

Shaq won a title with Kobe playing like crap. Kobe had one of the worst finals performances ever for a star player that won a series. Find me a star who did worse than 16/5/4, 37 FG%, 20 3P% and won a finals.

You're ignoring that Kobe got hurt early in game 2. Had that game 4 ankle game to push things to 3-1, and really had to gut it out on one leg the rest of the series. LA lost the game he missed. Nevermind the Portland series where Kobe was the best player and saved. LA's not even in the Finals otherwise. Shaq had 17.5 ppg in G6 & G7, while Kobe had 29 ppg. Including leading that G7 4th quarter rally.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#127 » by Samurai » Mon Jul 3, 2017 3:46 am

lebron3-14-3 wrote:
Samurai wrote:
lebron3-14-3 wrote:
Who dis dude

Twin brother of Dick Van Arsdale. Both were 3-time all stars, although having seen both I always felt that Dick was the better player. Dick was the better shooter, better passer and better defender. Both were 6-5 and could play both the 2 or 3 position; Tom more suited as a 3 (better rebounder than Dick) and Dick more suited for the 2. Neither are in the Hall of Fame and neither are likely to make the RealGM Top 100.


Cmon man hahahaah you purposely kept repeating Dick to make me laugh don't be childish

Okaaay....I'm glad you were amused. Not exactly sure what your issue is; how did you distinguish between the two twins? Seemed a better way to use their first names than "Van Arsdale was a better shooter than Van Arsdale, but Van Arsdale was the better defender." Your sense of humor is unique.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#128 » by Pablo Novi » Mon Jul 3, 2017 3:53 am

IF I get to vote, I go like this:
#7 Magic (greatest of all PGs - I have him GOAT #2;
#8 Dr J (including his phenomenal ABA years - have him GOAT #7)
#9 Kobe (2nd greatest SG; I have him GOAT #8)
#10 The Big "O" (2nd greatest PG, I have him GOAT #9)
#11 Karl Malone (2nd greatest PF, I have him GOAT #10)
#12 Shaq (3rd greatest C, I have him GOAT #11)
#13 Jerry West (3rd greatest SG, I have him GOAT #12)
#14 Larry Bird (3rd greatest SF, I have him GOAT #13)
#15 John Stockton (3rd greatest PG, I have him GOAT #14)
#16 Bob Pettit (3rd greatest PF, I have him GOAT #15)
I have Bill Russell the 4th greatest C, I have him GOAT #16

My reasoning behind these GOAT rankings is included in a monster-long post I made earlier today in the CRITERIA thread
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1548697&start=80 Posts #92 & #93.

Basically, I rank players by the number of Great Years they accumulated; with "Great Years" defined as years/seasons in which they were selected to an All-League 1st-Team, 2nd-Team .... with 5 "Points" awarded for 1st-Team, 3 "Points" awarded for 2nd-Team.

I build my GOAT list by first ranking all the players for each position separately (again by number of Great Years). My Positional Rankings are:
C: KAJ, Wilt, Shaq, Bill Russell
PF: TD, Karl Malone, Bob Pettit
SF: LBJ, Dr. J., Larry Bird
SG: MJ, Kobe, Jerry West
PG: Magic, Big "O", John Stockton

I then take the top-ranked player for each position and plug them into my GOAT Top 5; the next-ranked player at each position then plugs into my GOAT #s 6-10, etc.

Within each GOAT set of 5 rankings, I TEND to almost always put the Center first; then divvy up the other four spots by who I felt was the best (based on my "Points" system and other considerations).
-----
My reasoning behind these GOAT rankings is included in a monster-long post I made earlier today in the CRITERIA thread
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1548697&start=80 Posts #92 & #93.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#129 » by colts18 » Mon Jul 3, 2017 4:08 am

An Unbiased Fan wrote:
colts18 wrote:
andrewww wrote:
Shaq is the Lebron of centers. A couple of incredible go to moves, but if you're able to take that away then their play becomes much easier to manage and both have weaknesses that are painfully obvious to exploit. Orlando Shaq was also much closer to his peak than most of this forum realizes. Shaq's teams didn't become title contenders until.. you guessed it, Kobe hit his prime.

Shaq won a title with Kobe playing like crap. Kobe had one of the worst finals performances ever for a star player that won a series. Find me a star who did worse than 16/5/4, 37 FG%, 20 3P% and won a finals.

You're ignoring that Kobe got hurt early in game 2. Had that game 4 ankle game to push things to 3-1, and really had to gut it out on one leg the rest of the series. LA lost the game he missed. Nevermind the Portland series where Kobe was the best player and saved. LA's not even in the Finals otherwise. Shaq had 17.5 ppg in G6 & G7, while Kobe had 29 ppg. Including leading that G7 4th quarter rally.

Watch the games. Kobe was not the best player in Game 7. Shaq was doubled every time he caught the ball. The Blazers made it a priority to stop Shaq. They did not make it a priority to stop Kobe as evidenced by the fact that he had 5' 10 170 lbs Damon Stoudemire guarding him for a good chunk of the game.

I actually rewatched the game and posted a breakdown of it here. Kobe didn't lead the 4th quarter rally. Shaq scored 9 points in the 4th, Kobe scored 9 in the 4th.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1276262#start_here
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#130 » by An Unbiased Fan » Mon Jul 3, 2017 4:39 am

colts18 wrote:
An Unbiased Fan wrote:
colts18 wrote:Shaq won a title with Kobe playing like crap. Kobe had one of the worst finals performances ever for a star player that won a series. Find me a star who did worse than 16/5/4, 37 FG%, 20 3P% and won a finals.

You're ignoring that Kobe got hurt early in game 2. Had that game 4 ankle game to push things to 3-1, and really had to gut it out on one leg the rest of the series. LA lost the game he missed. Nevermind the Portland series where Kobe was the best player and saved. LA's not even in the Finals otherwise. Shaq had 17.5 ppg in G6 & G7, while Kobe had 29 ppg. Including leading that G7 4th quarter rally.

Watch the games. Kobe was not the best player in Game 7. Shaq was doubled every time he caught the ball. The Blazers made it a priority to stop Shaq. They did not make it a priority to stop Kobe as evidenced by the fact that he had 5' 10 170 lbs Damon Stoudemire guarding him for a good chunk of the game.

I actually rewatched the game and posted a breakdown of it here. Kobe didn't lead the 4th quarter rally. Shaq scored 9 points in the 4th, Kobe scored 9 in the 4th.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1276262#start_here

Kobe was definitely the best player in game 7.

Kobe 25 pts, 11 rebs, 7 asts, 4 blks, 2 tos
Shaq 18 pts, 9 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 4 tos

Here's a video showing Kobe's play in G7. Watch the way he playmakes, defends, and keeps LA in the game. Shaq didn't even score in the 3rd quarter. The 4th quarter rally was Kobe and the supporting cast like Shaw. Shaq got his buckets at the end after LA had already came back.

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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#131 » by Gus Hemmingway » Mon Jul 3, 2017 4:46 am

I have Kobe at 12th all time

Seems to be the General Consensus
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#132 » by ThaRegul8r » Mon Jul 3, 2017 5:09 am

Gus Hemmingway wrote:I have Kobe at 12th all time

Seems to be the General Consensus


What does whatever the general consensus think have to do with wherever you rank a given player as an individual?

Unless it's deliberately done to bait Kobe fans to whom he's a Top 10 all-time player.

(Since this is the internet, I'm obliged to make it clear that I couldn't care less about Kobe, but baiting a fanbase is both silly and pointless.)
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#133 » by Gus Hemmingway » Mon Jul 3, 2017 5:29 am

ThaRegul8r wrote:
Gus Hemmingway wrote:I have Kobe at 12th all time

Seems to be the General Consensus


What does whatever the general consensus think have to do with wherever you rank a given player as an individual?

Unless it's deliberately done to bait Kobe fans to whom he's a Top 10 all-time player.

(Since this is the internet, I'm obliged to make it clear that I couldn't care less about Kobe, but baiting a fanbase is both silly and pointless.)

Why would having Kobe 12th all-time be baiting Kobe fans? :crazy:

That's a huge accomplishment and only 11 players ever in history have been better

Huge Kobe fan here btw, it is what it is

The Universal Consensus has him at 12th as do I
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#134 » by ThaRegul8r » Mon Jul 3, 2017 5:48 am

Gus Hemmingway wrote:
ThaRegul8r wrote:
Gus Hemmingway wrote:I have Kobe at 12th all time

Seems to be the General Consensus


What does whatever the general consensus think have to do with wherever you rank a given player as an individual?

Unless it's deliberately done to bait Kobe fans to whom he's a Top 10 all-time player.

(Since this is the internet, I'm obliged to make it clear that I couldn't care less about Kobe, but baiting a fanbase is both silly and pointless.)

Why would having Kobe 12th all-time be baiting Kobe fans? :crazy:


I said "Kobe fans to whom he's a Top 10 all-time player." Which is most of those I've seen.

There are basketball sites on which posters continually refer to Kobe being ranked 12th solely to rankle Kobe fans who believe he's a Top 10 all-time player. I've been around, so I know. There are such Kobe fans participating in this project, and since you'd only made nine posts in almost a year and a half as a registered member here prior to this one, I had no information on which to base any conjecture as to your intentions, which is why I asked you directly.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#135 » by drza » Mon Jul 3, 2017 6:59 am

Almost exactly the same situation as last thread. I've been travelling, so post time has been spotty (got on for a good run on Saturday night, though). I'm still working on an Olajuwon post, but it's not done. If he doesn't win this round, I should have it ready hopefully by next thread. My top vote is KG, same as last thread, and I've written about it quite a bit in this thread. I still haven't really firmed up my next vote, with each of Shaq, Olajuwon and Magic in the mix. I'm going to stick with Shaq, as he's the one that I've written about the most in this project and I'm confident that his impact was massive across his prime. I'm not sure that Olajuwon's was at that level outside of his peak. Magic is right there, but need to spend more time there.
So, vote:

1) Kevin Garnett
2) Shaquille O'Neal
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#136 » by ardee » Mon Jul 3, 2017 7:16 am

Nobody has replied to the big post I quoted breaking down every Garnett Minny Playoff game and showing how his poor offensive skills killed the Wolves by shooting them out of game after game.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#137 » by Jaivl » Mon Jul 3, 2017 8:08 am

It seems that Kobe is actually getting some traction?

An Unbiased Fan wrote:
colts18 wrote:(...)
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1276262#start_here

Kobe was definitely the best player in game 7.

Kobe 25 pts, 11 rebs, 7 asts, 4 blks, 2 tos
Shaq 18 pts, 9 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk, 4 tos

Here's a video showing Kobe's play in G7. Watch the way he playmakes, defends, and keeps LA in the game. Shaq didn't even score in the 3rd quarter. The 4th quarter rally was Kobe and the supporting cast like Shaw. Shaq got his buckets at the end after LA had already came back.


Possible bias and all, it's kind of wrong to post a highlight video to replay a full-length breakdown.

Senior wrote:man, that last thread was even longer than the first thread

KG is the king of polarity

Yup. And I don't think he's being voted soon, so this could go on for a while.

Vote: Kevin Garnett
2nd vote: Hakeem Olajuwon


Again, Shaq is close too.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#138 » by Sakay » Mon Jul 3, 2017 9:07 am

it has been an awesome read tbh. one thing i notice though is that this list seems to be more focused on what X player could've done than what he actually did.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#139 » by Joao Saraiva » Mon Jul 3, 2017 9:27 am

Sakay wrote:it has been an awesome read tbh. one thing i notice though is that this list seems to be more focused on what X player could've done than what he actually did.


Diferent people have diferent criterias.

I think KG really falls into that argument a lot.

I don't see him in the top 10 to be honest.
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Re: RealGM Top 100 List 2017 -- #7 

Post#140 » by Senior » Mon Jul 3, 2017 9:43 am

Seems like this thread hasn't ended yet so I'll post some pre-93 Hakeem stuff (again, made by better posters than I). These are really long posts so I don't know how many posters will read it, but if you've got doubts about pre-93 Hakeem this might convince you. I'll spoiler them to avoid breaking the page.
Hakeem's defense:
Spoiler:
DatWasNashty wrote:Hakeem is most likely the greatest defender I've seen (1990/91-present).

Taking accomplishments into account, he has 2 Defensive Player of the Year awards and should've probably won more in retrospect. I don't see how one can make a great case for Rodman's selection in 1990. Yes, Rodman was a better man defender than Hakeem when locked in but he doesn't come close to providing the overall impact Dream did. Not to mention, Rodman was only playing 29.0 minutes per game compared to Hakeem's 38.3 which suggests that Dream was having more impact just by the virtue of staying in the game longer.

Now that statistics like DRtg are available, we can analyze and measure the impact these two had. Detroit, despite having better defenders around Rodman, posted a lower DRtg than Houston. Dream had the Rockets as #1 in the league and was far and away the best defensive player on the team. Buck Johnson was solid; great man defender but he couldn't dream (no pun intended) of matching Dream's impact. I don't use numbers to measure a player's defender but Hakeem's numbers that year (14.0 rpg/2.1 spg/4.6 bpg) make a good case in my book. He also finished runner up in Defensive Player of the Year voting in 1989 (would've won by one more vote) and 1990. Made 5 all-defensive first teams in his career, 9 in total.

As for his defense, I can mostly comment on post-1990 but he seemed to have some flaws early on in his career. He was a bit too aggressive which led to gambling, went for pumpfakes a bit too much and didn't seem as strong as he did in the early 1990s which is when he started lifting weight from what I remember. I think his defense peaked in the early 1990s around the time he won his first DPOY award. Around that time, he had significantly toned down his aggression, decreased the gambling and didn't get into foul trouble as much. Man defense was also great which is evident in the 1993 series with Seattle and the 1994 finals with New York.

He shut down the interior along with setting a record for blocked shots in a seven game series in the 1993 Western Conference Semi-finals. Dream also shut down Kemp limiting his penetration a bit and swatted away anything around the rim. Great help defense in this series. 1994 finals, he held Patrick Ewing to 36% shooting from the field. Did this by pushing him away from the basket and make him shoot turnaround jumpshots. His relatively low rebounding numbers are explained by him battling with Patrick outside the paint. Otis Thorpe picked up the slack in Dream's absence.

I would put guys like David Robinson, Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan on his level but would hesitate taking any of them before the Dream. Mostly because Admiral, while a great weakside shot blocker and interior defender, wasn't as good as a man defender. I also want to know how much of that great early 1990s Spurs defense is influenced by Larry Brown's defensive schemes and Admiral's defense. No doubt Admiral was a terrific defender and rightfully won a DPOY award but the Spurs DRtg took a hit in the 1992-93 season (first full year without LB) and this was with Admiral playing all 82 games. Their DRtg in 1994, 1995 and 1996 isn't as good, relative to league average, either. By no means am I implying Robinson didn't have a huge impact and he did because the Spurs were horrible without him when he went down late in the 1991-92 season but it does generate some food for thought.

Dream has a greater impact than Duncan on the defensive end due to his major edge in athleticism which is something Mario Elie commented on when comparing the two players. Garnett is a very good defender and better on the defensive glass but he doesn't have Dream's overall impact due to Dream being a greater paint defender and shot blocking threat. It's all subjective, though.


To give more examples of Hakeem's jaw-dropping defense, I'd point to the 1986 finals like bastillon mentioned. Parish couldn't manage anything against him. One thing I didn't talk about was his versatility as a defender. His determination in running the floor, protecting the basket and not giving up on any play. You should check out that chasedown block (all the way from halfcourt) he had on Rod Strickland in the 1994 playoffs. Just mind-boggling quickness and recovery time. He also had one on K.J. with K.J. falling flat on his arse. I've seen him guard power forwards as well. For reference, see his stellar defense on Karl Malone in game 4 of the 1994 Western Conference Semi finals. Otis Thorpe was in foul trouble and Dream got the job of checking Malone in the second half if I'm not mistaken. He shut Karl down and helped the Rockets take a big lead. It's the infamous game where the Utah time keeper doesn't start the clock. He also checked Barkley for stretches in the 1994 and 1995 conference semis and held his own. The thing about his defense was that he didn't let anyone get anything going inside. I remember being astonished at how Cedric Ceballos, the snake (great nose for the ball, terrific rebounder), couldn't finish around the basket because of Dream's presence. Most of the points he got that series were with Hakeem coming over to help on penetration. We had to take him out of games 6 and 7 and start AC Green although some of it had to do with the defensive mismatches we had (Thorpe posting up Chuck, Dream beasting etc).


87-92 Rockets and some thoughts on 88-92 and 93-95 differences:

Spoiler:
Double Clutch wrote:First of all, let me say that having seen the 1988 and 1990 playoffs, Hakeem's lack of support was painfully clear to me so those are two years I wouldn't include here. I'm not saying Hakeem was a perfect player in 1990; he did have his flaws as he wasn't a leader, his offensive game wasn't completely refined yet, his bball IQ would improve later on, he had a tendency to get in fights, foul trouble and wasn't as disciplined of a player as he was in the mid 90s but he wasn't the central issue of the Rockets' woes. We also have to keep in mind they also lost to a great team both those years and compared to the 1988 Mavs and the 1990 Lakers, they certainly weren't as talented overall.

As for 1991 and 1992, you're right that the core pieces in those two years are similar to the first championship team and those are also two down years in Hakeem's career trajectory. So let's analyze why Houston wasn't successful here. In 1991, the Rockets' had acquired Kenny Smith as a PG to fulfill Hakeem's requests as he had been critical of their guard play stating they were too selfish.

However, initially, this wouldn't have a significant difference in the W-L column as by the time Hakeem went down with an eye injury, Houston was 17-13 and one of those wins had come with Hakeem out so they were really 16-13 with him. When Hakeem went down, everybody expected Houston to play poorly as this was the time period, they were known as "Team Akeem," essentially a one-man squad.

However, in those 25 games Hakeem would miss, the team would find its groove without him going 15-10 overall (12-3 in the last 15 games).

What the world would also find out is that the Rockets did have talent. As you can see, in the 25 games, Hakeem missed, a lot of players saw an increase in both efficiency and volume so this wasn't a case of "empty stats" on the team's behalf where the team does poorly without their star player and the individuals put up better numbers at worse efficiency simply due to having more opportunities for themselves. Their offense was better as well but I'll get into that in a second.

Vernon Maxwell averaged 14.7 ppg on 39.5% shooting before Hakeem went down. In the time Hakeem missed, he'd average 19.6 ppg on 44.2% shooting so his stats saw a significant increase. Mad Max was definitely streaky as in he'd quickly get hot and could shoot you into games but just as easily shoot you out of them. He'd have a 50 pt game (30 pt quarter) in a game vs Cleveland during this stretch.

Sleepy Floyd averaged 9.8 ppg/3.4 apg on 40.9% shooting before Hakeem went down. In the time Hakeem missed, he'd average 15.1 ppg/4.1 apg on 42.6% shooting so like Mad Max, his stats also increased both in terms of volume and efficiency.

Otis Thorpe averaged 15.5 ppg/9.6 rpg/1.7 apg on 52.5% shooting before Hakeem went down. In the time Hakeem missed, he'd average 21.1 ppg/11.7 rpg/3.6 apg on 57% shooting so his stats also saw a significant increase in both volume and efficiency. Otis was a good player and as you can see, he put up big numbers without Hakeem. As a side note, I never felt those two had good synergy offensively.

Larry Smith would take Hakeem's starting spot and he'd average 14.4 rpg in those games Hakeem missed and keep in mind, he's providing great post-defense as well despite being undersized at the C position.

Keep in mind during the time Hakeem missed, Chaney also restructured the offense and they played more of an uptempo game because their trio of guards (Max, Floyd, Kenny) were all had quickness and athleticism so they flourished in the open court. Before Hakeem's eye injury the offensive game plan was fairly basic:

In short, it was still Team Akeem. "You know," says coach Don Chancy, "pass the ball to him, wait for the double team, he kicks it back out. Or pass the ball to him, let him go; one-on-one. What else would you do?! The guy had super numbers with the system."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... AG1139814/

Now, how you interpret this improvement without Hakeem is clearly up to the individual doing the analysis.

Does this mean Hakeem's raw stats were perhaps not as impactful as they'd seem to the naked eye?

Does this mean the Rockets' coach Chaney implemented a strategy that would maximize the talents the Rockets had and perhaps win them a few season games? He clearly did do some re-tooling the way the team ran offensively as like I mentioned earlier, the pace of the team increased and the Kenny Smith and Otis Thorpe pick and roll became a staple in their offense which is part of the reason Thorpe's stats increased a lot.

Does this mean the Rockets' guards (who were fairly erratic) got a "hot streak" going which inflates their numbers/record in the time period Hakeem missed?

Personally, I tend to believe it's a combination of all 3. Hakeem would clearly improve as a player a bit later on in nearly every intangible and tangible aspect of the game, the type of offense Chaney ran tanked in the 1991 playoffs as the guards didn't do their job and if you watch the series, you'd notice how Doug Collins would repeatedly emphasize how they aren't giving Hakeem enough touches which I believe was a result of the success they had without him during the 25 games he missed. You'll notice in Rocket games from 1991 and 1992 that Hakeem often hovers around the high post and shoot jumpshots, he often gets ignored in the low block and when he would get the ball, he'd have tendency to force the situation, the pace of the game was also higher which the guards would take advantage of more so than the bigs and he wasn't a focal point of the offense to the extent he was under Rudy T where the vast majority of the offense went through him as they had implemented a perfect inside-outside game.

The change in offensive structure after Hakeem came back from his eye injury is what caused his scoring to decline in the latter half of the 1991 season as well as the 1992 season. He was used more as a finisher instead of creator.

And what has this done to Olajuwon's game? It didn't hurt it any. "Ever since I came to this league, I've been double-teamed," he says. "But now that the offense is spread out, the game is suddenly easy. Easy! It's like in college. I get a few rebounds and get my points, or the guards—and they are criminally quick—dish off for a few dunks. Easy points! Same points, and I do less work. It reminds me of Phi Slamma Jamma [the nickname for his University of Houston team], so much fun. When the game is over now, I'm not even tired. I could play another game." He is almost grateful to unburden himself of the pressure of Team Akeem: "I've been looking for this freedom."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

Their record in 1992 was even worse as they ended up missing the playoffs and this time around the Rockets had a lot of internal issues to deal with. Chaney would get fired, Hakeem would feud with the management, demand a trade, thought the guards played selfish basketball, he'd eventually get suspended for supposedly faking a hamstring injury and it's rumored that the Rockets tanked in the games Hakeem was suspended (went 0-5) to enter the lottery sweepstakes since they did not anticipate him being in Houston the next season. Again, how you interpret this is again up to the individual. This season, the Rockets were 40-30 with him and just 2-10 without him so they didn't really get the job done and the fact that the team's morale was down, chemistry was poor sort of comes back to Hakeem and his feud with the management. Personally, I do sympathize with Hakeem in the sense that he was not in a good situation for a number of years and maybe he did feel they insulted his intelligence or questioned his dignity when they presumed he was faking the hamstring injury as a means of a contract ploy. Obviously, regarding his teammates, he went through a lot of changes to no avail and with the way the team was structured, he wasn't satisfied with it largely because they weren't successful even though he attempted to fit in and accepted a smaller role. With that said, Hakeem at this point had his flaws as well. Anyway, here are Hakeem's own thoughts on this situation a few years later:

"When your teammates realize you're not in competition with them and that you are supposed to compliment one another you're capable of so much more," Olajuwon said. "I've been on teams where players want to compete with you for shots and are wondering why the ball doesn't go to them more. That's small-minded. "When you have a legitimate center, you have to center the offense there. People used to say I'm selfish. Now I take more shots, score more points and you don't hear that. It's a team game now.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/spo ... e-1.690582

-Kees- wrote:
Then this kinda leads into another line of thought for me, which is how much did Tomjanavich help Hakeem and the Rockets? Hakeem was viewed as a different player when they started winning, he let the offense come to him more and didn't try to do EVERYTHING on every play. But how much of that was him growing and how much of that was Tomjanavich? Hakeem's play may have changed, but it changed really only once Tomjanavich got there. Every good team needs a good coach, I know that, but I'm just curious if we should be thinking of Hakeem as the same player and impact from 87-92 as he was once Tomjanavich got there. Like, with Jordan or LeBron, they went through a time of dragging bad teams to the playoffs, then once they got more talent around them they starting to make their noise. It seems like Hakeem actually got better (or more effective) during his title runs, concluding that he was potentially weaker earlier on, where no one questions that with some of the other greats who had times like these.


I'm going to say it's a combination of both Hakeem getting better as a player and Rudy T's offense. What Rudy did was make Hakeem entirely the focal point of the offense, the shooters were given designated spots on the floor and they now had a very well structured, albeit predictable offense. Another thing that happened was the game in the early-mid 90s was starting to slow down so the pace would decrease and that would naturally result in the Rockets' looking to feed Hakeem to generate offense in the half-court set as he was the best offensive player on the team. This is something that applies to the rest of the league as well, not just to Houston.

At the same time, Rocket coach Rudy Tomjanovich has devised an offense populated with penetrators like rookieSam Cassell and hair-trigger three-point shooters like Smith and Vernon Maxwell to complement Olajuwon's interior dominance. Catching the ball on the left block, Olajuwon usually has two frothing teammates poised on the arc facing him—what Tomjanovich calls "the money spot"—and a third at the top of the key. With the trio in easy view, Olajuwon can dish the ball quickly before the inevitable double team arrives. The result: With the attack running through him, Olajuwon has increased both his shot attempts and assists since Rudy T replaced Don Chaney during the 1991-92 season. "I love a big man who finds the open man for a pure jump shot," Olajuwon says. "It's beautiful to watch. It is fulfilling to me."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

Rudy also gave Hakeem more freedom which is something he mentioned in his HOF speech which in turn led to an improvement in his decision making.

Olajuwon praised Tomjanovich for "giving me the freedom and the confidence that he believes in my decisions. He gave me the green light that I could freelance in the structure of the team. For a coach to have that kind of confidence in his player was a huge responsibility for him not to be disappointed in my decisions, so that made me much more conscious of my decisions--not to take a bad shot, to make good decisions."

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.ca/2008 ... chive.html

With that said, something that isn't mentioned is that Hakeem did get better as a player from 1992 to 1993 and then on. First things first, Hakeem took off his goggles that had he worn ever since Cartwright had knocked him out and given him that eye injury which improved his shooting. Hakeem also said that was the first off-season he really worked on his game.

The mount airy news - Jan 17, 1993
GOING WITHOUT GOGGLES: Hakeem Olajuwon is playing without goggles for the first time since an eye socket fracture in the 1990-91 season. The decision is paying off because Olajuwon is having a great season, averaging 25.1 points on 53.1 percent shooting in his first 32 games. The Houston Rockets center hasn't shot this well since he made 53.8 percent of his shots in his rookie season, 1984-85.

"I really can see a lot better now since I stopped wearing those goggles," Olajuwon said. "There's no question that has helped my shooting."

But Olajuwon doesn't attribute all the improvement to the unimpeded vision.

"It's getting too crowded in the paint," he said. "Last summer was the first time I really worked on my game, especially on shooting the ball."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ds ... gles&hl=en

The shot that improved the most was his patented baseline fallaway.

The most compelling aspect of Olajuwon is that, at 31, he continues to improve. Kenny Smith remembers the baseline being where defenses used to force and ultimately frustrate Olajuwon. Then he went to work a couple of summers ago. "The shot that people try to force him into taking is now the shot he wants to take," said Smith.


http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/08/sport ... d=2&src=pm

Hakeem's passing also improved as Rockets' assistant coach Carroll Dawson alludes to.

"Olajuwon always added something to his game over the summer," said former Rockets general manager Carroll Dawson, who was an assistant coach with the organization before moving into the front office. "That's what all the great players do and that's what he did. He might be known for the jump hook, but he could do so many things. We didn't actually start winning with him big time until he learned to pass the ball. We'd talk before every summer about what he was going to work on and he'd come back in the fall with something added to his game. He worked."

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Olajuwo ... 28-34.html

''We shoot inside, then move to 12 feet and then to 15 feet,'' Houston Rockets assistant coach Carroll Dawson said. ''What happened was, he got to making the 15-footer so well, he moved out to 20 feet, and now he can shoot that, too.

''He's started facing up and doing all those things. Now he can play like a forward, and that's been real big for his offense. The biggest improvement on his game was three to four years ago when he started passing the ball. He started understanding defense. In the early days when they doubled him, he'd have trouble finding the guy on the weak side. Now he finds them wherever they are.''

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/199 ... -superstar

The above Carroll Dawson quote is after the 1995 finals and you can see how he talks about Hakeem really started understanding and reading the defense three to four years ago (1992) and how he used to have trouble finding guys on the weakside but now he's much improved as a passer.

Here's a link to a Hakeem highlight video vs the Bulls from the 1992-93 season:

Fast forward to 4:12 and you'll notice the Rockets' commentators agreeing on how Hakeem was reading the defense much better than in the past.

He also worked on his spin moves and tried to expand his game as much as possible that off-season.

Pride drove Olajuwon to work in the off-season on improving his already impressive repertoire of offensive moves.

"It's just trying to find variations on the same spin moves I've perfected from different areas of the court," he said. "It's my way of keeping up with the youngsters. I can't ever let them believe they've found ways to stop me. When that times comes, then I'll step aside."

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-0 ... d-robinson

This is something that also ties in with his playmaking ability because Hakeem, while underrated in this regard, wasn't the best pure passer out of the post. The fact that he was so good at spinning in the lane and creating space with his footwork could force the defense to collapse on him, allow him to see the floor and pass on the move to a shooter or a cutter. That's something you'd notice in that highlight video I linked above.

The early 90s was also a time period in Hakeem's life where he really dedicated himself to his religion which helped him become a more disciplined player, he improved his leadership and became focused to turn his career around.
"This is the best year he's ever had, because of the consistency," Sonic assistant Bob Kloppenburg said. "Before, you could provoke him, get him angry or into foul trouble. Now, nothing seems to faze him. Now, he calms down the other guys on his team. That never used to happen."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1700421

Example of Hakeem's leadership from this year which was lacking in the past:

A year ago, veteran Tree Rollins sat in the locker room on the day after the Rockets had failed to qualify for the playoffs and said this club was the most selfish, unmotivated, leaderless team he had ever seen. Now, even Rollins is shocked with the strides the Rockets have made.

"I wouldn't have believed you if you told me a year ago this would happen," Rollins said. "I'd have said that the team definitely had the talent but wasn't sure it would ever have the maturity. All of a sudden, we have guys playing together and liking each other."

The signs were there, Rollins said, early in the season. After every Rockets practice, it is customary for the team to come together at midcourt and for each man to put one hand into a huddle. But, after one workout, one of the Rockets did not enter the circle.

Olajuwon set tone for team

"Hakeem walked up to him and told him to put his hand in," Rollins said. "He told the guy that we were a team, and we were going to do everything together.

"To me, that was a sign of leadership from Hakeem. It was a commitment. A lot of guys saw that happen, and, from that day, nobody has ever missed being a part of the huddle."

The sense of togetherness is evident in the way the Rockets unselfishly pass the ball until they find the man with the best shot. It was exemplified Saturday night against San Antonio when Olajuwon and Maxwell exchanged six passes to set up a dunk by Hakeem.
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archi ... 93_1123809

"This team that has matured around Hakeem and Rudy T (Coach Rudy Tomjanovich), they now have a focused leader--Hakeem. Think about it. Two to three years ago, who was the leader on the floor? You didn't have one. Who was the guy who stood in front of everyone and said, 'Damn it, we're not going to lose?' Or if things went down, who spoke out first? No one did."


http://articles.latimes.com/1994-01-18/ ... m-olajuwon

The 1992-93 Rockets actually started off 14-16 and finished 41-11 after they held a few team meetings in January and started playing more unselfishly. Below is a really nice read on Hakeem's improvements this year.

He has had any number of breakthroughs in the past year -- a 14 1/2-hour flight to Tokyo when he and his Rockets boss, both insomniacs, finally shook hands; a clandestine January team meeting when he delivered a rare speech to restore Rocket morale; his weekly immersement into the Koran and the Muslim religion; and his daily, exhausting shooting sessions, last summer, with a pair of 11-year-olds. Becomes a Citizen

.......

Actually, it is his basketball that has been naturalized most of all. Houston and the pass-happy Olajuwon open the playoffs Thursday night against the Los Angeles Clippers. But in past seasons, it was not that Olajuwon couldn't pass the ball -- he wouldn't. Opponents would surround him with double- and triple-teams, and he had such miniscule confidence in his open Rocket teammates that he would ignore them and throw up quirky, low-percentage shots. The Rockets had an ultimate power forward in Otis Thorpe, a slick point guard in Kenny Smith and a shooter with range from here to Galveston in Vernon Maxwell. But they were selfish, paid little heed to their former coach, Don Chaney, and crumbled whenever a disheartened Olajuwon critiqued them in the newspapers.

There were first-round playoff losses to Dallas in 1988, to Seattle in 1989 and to the Lakers in 1990 and 1991. And when they bottomed out to become a desultory lottery team last season, Olajuwon -- who by then had changed his first name to its proper Hakeem -- wanted likewise to change teams.

"Thought I'd be somewhere else this year," he said, and he nearly ended up with the Clippers or Miami. Bad Rep, Bad Rap

But the Rockets' new coach, Rudy Tomjanovich, lobbied to retain Olajuwon. The center had a national image as a malcontent -- which is why he is the only m.v.p. candidate without a shoe commercial/mini-series -- but it was an unfair perception that stemmed from his so-called feigning of a hamstring injury last season and his constant inquiries to the Rocket owner, Charlie Thomas, for more money. But it was Thomas who initiated talks about a contract extension last year, and several orthopedists confirmed the leg injury.

Nevertheless, when Thomas continued to renege on his contract promise, Olajuwon called the owner "a coward" this October. The Olajuwon personna worsened. But by March, months after the two had kissed and made up on the Tokyo flight, Olajuwon had a four-year, $25 million extension and a hug from Thomas in public. "Well, my wife, Kittsie, has said worse to me, and we're still married," Thomas said.

Meanwhile, Olajuwon's auspicious season -- better stats than Patrick Ewing in every category and league leader in blocks -- comes at the same time as his newfound Muslim faith, his renewed confidence in teammates and the dogged workouts with those 11-year-olds.

Every Friday at home he leaves practice early to go attend a mosque. "He is at peace with himself," said his Nigerian friend, Nnamdi Moweta. "It's Islamic willpower he has, and I wouldn't be suprised if the Rockets go all the way." Added Weapon

Since Jan. 10, the Rockets are 41-11, own the best record since the All-Star Gamebreak and are Midwest Division champions for the first time since 1986. Olajuwon, in an early January meeting, told teammates "I am your friend," and not to take his criticisms so personally. It freed them all. The advancement of rookie forward Robert Horry, plus Tomjanovich's declarations that everybody pass, have also made the Rockets a selfless team.

But Olajuwon has been the clear catalyst. He employed those two 11-year-olds to rebound for him last summer in Los Angeles, and he shot 500 jump shots a day. His game changed. This season, he passes to get out of trouble in double-teams, drives to the basket with 360-degree spins and, most shockingly, nails 17-feet straightaway jump shots to keep opponents guessing. "Haven't seen one center stop him one-on-one," Maxwell said.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/28/sport ... d=3&src=pm

There was a time, not so long ago, that Olajuwon, lacking confidence in his teammates, would have forced a shot himself.

Three seasons ago, Olajuwon may not have made the pass to one of his teammates.

"He's gained a lot of confidence in the guys on the perimeter, something he didn't have three or four years ago," said Vernon Maxwell, the Rockets' shooting guard.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/15/sport ... n-one.html

Hakeem's defense also improved from 1992 to 1993. In my post earlier, I had posted an article from the local paper that was critical of his defense but in 1993, he got all around praise for his defensive ability from various sources such as coaches who voted him on the All-Defensive first team, sportswriters that voted him DPoY, commentators and journalists. I think 1993 could be argued as his defensive peak even if the stats might not show it. He did have superior defensive numbers in the 1990 season as well as anchoring a better defense but I think he really became more disciplined during this time period in terms of not going for ball/shot fakes, staying out of foul trouble, being more composed, defending his man giving them various looks, his transition defense was great, he contested jumpshots with great timing, did a tremendous job protecting the basket, PnR defense was great (hedge and recover in immaculate fashion, switch on guards and hold his own often taking a swipe at the ball, shade the ball handler, effectively trapping ect). The 1993 series vs Seattle is a pretty good example of his defensive prowess this year.

Also, another thing is that Hakeem did not anticipate being in Houston in the 1992-93 season so he went into this season with a more focused and "contract year" mindset as he wanted to improve his value to the rest of the league because he was viewed as a malcontent in the 1991-92 season. In the end, of course, everything worked out as he'd get a contract extension in March 1993 and the Rockets would become a great team but at the beginning of the season, he still thought he was going to be traded sometime later on.

Olajuwon worked hard in the off-season. He practiced the turnaround jumper that had been so effective earlier in his career. He stressed conditioning.

He was driven, in part, by the thought of having a fresh start. Olajuwon was convinced he was going to be traded, and he wanted to show his new employer his skills had not diminished.

When Olajuwon reported for another season in Houston, he admits he was disappointed. But he refused to let his hard work go to waste. A long talk with Thomas on the flight back from Japan, where the Rockets opened the regular season against Seattle, helped clear the air.

Olajuwon has been outstanding ever since. He's sixth in the league in scoring with an average of 25 points, third in rebounding at 12.8 and first in blocked shots with 4.27. He has been at his overpowering best late in the game, which is one reason the Rockets have won 25 of their last 30 games.

"He's having an MVP season, his best far and away,' Patterson said.

"I think it's between him and Charles Barkley for MVP,' Miami center Rony Seikaly said. "I'd have to flip a coin. Hakeem is as good as anybody.'

Olajuwon had no problem letting Rockets management know how he felt last season. But with that goes the responsibility of helping solve the problem, not creating one.

That is exactly what Olajuwon has done.

"The worst thing that could have happened after the controversy of last season was to come in this season and let it continue,' Olajuwon said. "The bottom line is to take care of business on the floor. I have an obligation to fulfill, and I fulfill it the best way I know how.'

Olajuwon's way has put the Rockets at the top of the division.

"One thing about Hakeem, he's focused this year,' Houston forward Otis Thorpe said. "My opinion is that he's set his mind in the direction he wants to go and what he wants to accomplish. If he accomplishes those things, I think he's a happy man.


- Dallas Morning News, 1993

Dallas Morning News - Apr 28, 1993
Coach Rudy Tomjanovich credits Olajuwon and his intensity for establishing the tone of the season.


-Kees- wrote:
I don't think I'm explaining this in the best way possible lol. It's like, when Kareem, Jordan and LeBron were "winning" with bad teams, and when they were actually winning with good teams, they were close to the same player. Obviously everyone changes their game, but LeBron in from 07-10 is pretty similar impact to LeBron 11-13. It seems like Hakeem in particular got better during his later stretch, playing a slightly different game, not doing so much on the court, but doing better things on the court. With seemingly similar talent levels, the only major thing that changed was Hakeem's game, and the coach. It just brings up the question that if Hakeem learned his "new play style" at an earlier time, would they be more effective? If Hakeem started trusting his teammates more, and playing smarter on offense (not forcing things) in say 88 or 89 instead of 93 or 94, would they have gone a lot farther, considering the talent they had on the team? Those questions don't really come up when talking about these kinds of times with other greats (partly it seems because they honestly didn't have the talent (like LeBron in Cleveland)), and it just makes me wonder if Hakeem's better playstyle was heavily due to Tomjonavich coaching him, which seemed to start at the exact same time that we saw Hakeem change.


I got you just fine though I do disagree that LeBron in 2007 and 2008 is the same caliber as his last two years in the Heat but I do understand what you're trying to say that LeBron in his last couple of years in Cleveland was simply lacking in teammates while having similar impact to his Heat-self.

As for the bold, I think they'd overachieve to a greater extent in the regular season as Hakeem got better as a player and would've got more out of his teammates as well, perhaps getting them a higher seed and maybe an easier opponent in the first round so it's possible they get out of the first round. But you need support to make major noise and from what I saw, he wasn't getting much at least in the late 80s. I really don't see mid 90s Hakeem doing anything better in the 1988 playoffs for instance. Even in the 1990 playoffs, I'm not sure what mid 90s Hakeem could do that could possibly change the outcome. The Lakers played him a lot like Seattle did in the 1996 WCSF by really swarming him as soon as he received the ball, ensuring that he wouldn't be able to create for himself and forced the ball out of his hands.

I do think had Hakeem worked on his game earlier, became a more disciplined player ect, the 1991 and 1992 Rockets could result in greater team success during those years but we have to keep in mind he can only do so much with Don Chaney coaching and the way the offense was set up. I do view those two years as a down period in Hakeem's career though.

I definitely don't think Hakeem's playstyle was entirely due to Rudy T coaching him. Rudy just maximized his talents by putting him in a system that catered best to his game. It's also merely a coincidence that Hakeem really started to work on his game (all tangible/intangible aspects) once Rudy took over. For example, he would continue to improve in certain aspects after 1993. He didn't work much on his game in the 1993 off-season because he had to get surgery on his right middle finger (did work on his off hand as a result) but he improved his strength and stamina in the 1994 off-season. He got worn down late in games at times in the 1994 playoffs (game 4 vs Portland, finals vs New York). He also added some more face up moves that year which you'd see in the 1995 playoffs, maybe had a bit more range, his offensive understanding in terms of off-ball movement really peaked and he worked better in PnRs (also got better at slipping screens) and would also pop out to shoot jumpshots. His defense and overall activity did decline post-1993 though mainly because of a decline in athletic ability.


Spoiler:
Double Clutch wrote:1987 - The Rockets this year were supposed to make major noise after a great underdog run in 1986 upsetting the Lakers and taking the Celtics to 6 games. They were billed as the "team of the future" when the Twin Towers were first formed so you get an idea on the kind of potential they had. Roughly halfway into the season, Lewis Lloyd and Mitchell Wiggins were suspended for drug abuse and Sampson battled injuries which clearly impacted his play from then on. In the playoffs, they went up against a Blazer squad which had HCA and won largely due to Hakeem having a terrific all around series (statistically speaking as I've never seen a game). The one game they lost, Hakeem was limited by foul trouble. Next, they were up against a 39 W Seattle team that had upset a really good Dallas squad in the first round. This leads me to believe Seattle was playing over their head and really put together a solid run in the playoffs. I have seen game 6 from this series and with the way Hakeem played (49/25/6 blk), it's really hard to put any blame on him. Sampson had totally disappeared in this game especially in the second half, missed some big FTs and Houston also had a couple of calls go against them in the 4th. Bob Kloppenburg who was Seattle's assistant called this "the greatest individual performance he had ever seen." After the game was over, Maurice Lucas went up to Hakeem and said, (paraphrased) he couldn't imagine anybody wanting to win as much as Hakeem, and also said of all the guys he played against, Hakeem was the best against a group defense. I can post the exact quotes if you want.

1988 - I don't know much about this year besides Hakeem really being critical of his teammates (especially Sleepy Floyd) and being one of the reasons Bill Fitch got fired after their season was over. He said, (paraphrased) that Floyd was playing selfish basketball while Fitch was being too hard on the players and did not give them the freedom, creativity and margin of error that they should've had. I've seen 2 of the 4 games from their series vs Dallas and Hakeem played exceptional basketball and got poor guard play except for the one game they won where both Floyd and Hakeem scored 40+. I remember watching one of those games that Don Nelson/Pete Van Wieren called (game 4) and nearly half the game, all they did was talk about how well Hakeem had played and the lack of help he received from the guards.

World B Free was a back up on the 1988 Rockets and here's him talking about how great Hakeem played and how the management should surround him with more talent.

As he has done all season, he watched from the bench with appreciative eyes the performance of teammate Akeem Olajuwon, who did his best to drag the Rockets past the Mavs and into the second round.
And he felt bad after the unaccomplished mission. Bad for himself and the Rockets. But worse, still, for Olajuwon.
"I tell you one thing," said Free, who played five scoreless minutes, "Akeem showed me again tonight that he's a hell of a man.
"He made me respect him tonight and he made me respect him to the utmost for one year watching him play center. He's the greatest talent I've seen at center for his time.If it wasn't for Dream, we'd have lost by 30 points. But the guy needs help.
"When I came here I thought I could be the one to give him help. But I felt bad watching him night in and night out and not be able to do anything to help him. I couldn't help anyone from the bench."
Free, a veteran of 12 years in the NBA, came to the Rockets as a free agent during the offseason. But he was largely a forgotten man in Bill Fitch's offense. Especially toward the end of the regular season and in the playoffs.
Free played in 58 of the Rockets' 82 games. He averaged only 6.4 points. Free had averaged 14.5 points in the playoffs during his career. But he had only zeros to show for his efforts after the four games against Dallas.
He played only seven minutes and attempted only two field goals, one of them coming on Thursday.
While Olajuwon hit 16-of-24 from the floor for 40 points, giving him a four-game NBA playoff record 150 markers, no other Rocket on Thursday managed more than 12 points.
Free said it's an indication management needs to come up with some changes before next season.
"They need to go down the line, starting from the top," said Free. "The Man (Akeem) is a talented player. He needs talent to work with him."
- Chron

Moving on to 1989, the Rockets trade for Otis Thorpe who I find fairly underrated especially on the 1994 Rockets because he isn't a very well-known player and his stats don't stand out on that particular team. Someone in this thread called him an average passer and I disagree with that assessment. I think he was a very good passer; he had huge hands, good awareness and was one of the best outlet passers I've seen. By the early 90s came around, he was a very solid defender as well. Anyway, this season, it's pretty much the same story for Houston. They did acquire Don Chaney to replace Bill Fitch which was a definite downgrade imo. What I see this year is a great player carrying a pretty mediocre squad to a fairly modest season. They win 45 games and are ousted by Seattle in the first round. I'm not sure how Hakeem played since I haven't seen any games but his stats seem fine. That's one thing about Hakeem in the late 80s period, it's hard to penalize him much as I get the feeling he was doing fine individually especially having watched and researched about his play in the 1987 and 1988 playoffs where he was generally praised by the media, the commentators as well as his own teammates.

In 1990, Hakeem began the season a bit limited physically as he had not played any basketball in the summer and missed pre-season due to a blood clot in his leg. If you watch the games from this season, he wore a padding on one of his calves if I'm not mistaken. There are some roster additions as they pick up Larry Smith, John Lucas (the same Lucas that was suspended for drug abuse on the 1986 squad) and Vernon Maxwell late in the season who wasn't a proven commodity as he was a bit of a headcase.

I'll link a couple of articles from this season that talk about Hakeem's game and briefly summarize them as well in case you don't want to go through the game.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989 ... ck-johnson

This link above is an article early from the 1989-90 season and primarily highlights the fact that Houston was still a 1 man team and that guys had to step up and give Hakeem more help.

Asked if the Rockets are basically a one-man team, Lucas said, ``Yes. We`re hiding from being a one-man team right now. The preseason gave us confidence, but it doesn`t mean things have changed. Olajuwon has to do as much as Michael Jordan has to do for Chicago, but in a different way.``

Eddie Johnson also talked about how Hakeem was trying to do too much as he'd try to make one play right after another which perhaps is a sign of not trusting his teammates although at the same time, you could argue it was justified due to a lack of support. He also talks about playing on a mediocre or bad ball club will naturally have a negative impact on the player's image which is certainly true.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1059890

The link above is another good read on how much Hakeem had to do. Riley talks about how much energy Hakeem had to exert, how passing was a criticism of his game but he was making improvements, Don Chaney was critical of the defensive play of Floyd and Wiggins and I'll add that makes it all the more impressive Hakeem anchored the top rated defense in the league and Chaney also praises Hakeem's ability to do it all.

In the quote below, you can see how Chaney touches on the same thing Eddie Johnson talked about that Hakeem was perhaps trying too hard and forcing the issue and how he was also receiving more defensive attention than he had in the past. This is something I notice when comparing say 1990 Hakeem to the mid 90s version who was more patient and would take what the defense was giving him although I'd also say Rudy T had structured an offense where Hakeem would post, kick-out, re-post to get better position and get the ball which is a part of the offense missing in the Chaney years. In the 1989-90 season, Hakeem had also slowly started to take more jumpshots as the guards would penetrate and dish with Hakeem spacing the floor.

"When he's struggling, he'll go three or four times without the ball. Then when he finally does get the ball, he's so intent on scoring that he forces things," Chaney said. "There's such a thing as trying too hard, and the end product is a negative in those situations."
Defenses have clamped down on Olajuwon even more strongly than they have in the past.
Chaney said he's going to start treating Olajuwon like other teams have been treating him.
"Other teams try to take the ball out of our best player's hands, so we're going to have to do some different things," he said.
While Olajuwon still will tote a large share of the scoring responsibilities, Chaney hopes the new look will take more advantage of the improvements Buck Johnson has made in his game.
Johnson and Mitchell Wiggins are the two players on the Rockets' roster who can make life easier for Akeem by spotting up for the midrange jumper or faking their opponent into the air, then driving to the basket.
Their drives normally draw a crowd, which leaves Olajuwon free to operate on the pass-off or to get an offensive rebound.


- Chron

His playoff performance this year is pretty poor relative to his standards but I watched the series and didn't think it was that bad. First of all, while there's a stark drop-off in his production, he actually had superior numbers vs the Lakers in the playoffs than he did in the season which is perhaps an indication that LA's strategy during those games was similar to their strategy in the playoffs which was to try to have Mychal Thompson push him away from the basket, swarm Hakeem as much as possible by immediately doubling him off the catch and often sending two help defenders at him. They did a great job forcing the ball out of his hands in the first two games and thus limiting his shot attempts but Hakeem was able to kick the ball out to the perimeter and create some shots for his teammates however his teammates were not able to make LA pay for that strategy. They'd also pressure and trap the guards at half-court making it harder to get the ball to Hakeem although the guards had a big game 3 which forced LA to play them straight up in game 4 and you can see, Hakeem was able to get more touches and create more for himself as evident by him taking more shots. His defensive impact over the course of the season was immense as shown by his individual numbers as well as the Rockets having the best defense in the league despite the rest of the team being a bit suspect on that end. This could be his defensive peak although he did improve in certain aspects of defense in the mid 90s, primarily his man defense, playing smarter thus avoiding foul trouble etc.

In 1991, the Rockets add Kenny Smith to improve their guard play but it doesn't really make a noticeable impact in the W-L column until..... Hakeem goes down with an eye injury he suffered vs Chicago at the hands of Bill 'elbows' Cartwright. At first, they start off slow without Hakeem (as expected) going 3-7 but from that point, they go 12-3 playing more unselfish basketball, their go-to play was the Kenny Smith/Otis Thorpe pick and roll and Larry Smith who was an excellent post-defender and rebounder had replaced Hakeem so their defense didn't drop-off as much. Hakeem would come back, accept a smaller role and was used more of a finisher than creator on offense although he would get the occasional post-up run for him. To put it in a nutshell, Vernon Maxwell would lead the team in shot attempts after Hakeem came back. This was all fine and dandy and it worked out as the Rockets would go 20-7 after Hakeem came back including a 13 game W streak until it was playoff time where this new guard-heavy offense completely tanked and they got swept by LA. You can watch the series (games 1 and 3 are definitely available) on youtube and you'll notice Doug Collins repeatedly talk about how they needed to give Hakeem the ball and involve him in the offense more often. Simply put, their guards were fairly streaky, erratic and this offensive scheme was not built for playoff basketball.

The next season, the downturn would continue and it would hit rock-bottom with Houston missing the playoffs. The morale of the team was down, Tree Rollins called them the most "selfish, unmotivated and leaderless" group of players he'd been around, they lacked an identity and essentially had no direction whatsoever. Hakeem would feud with the management as they had accused him of faking a hamstring injury as a means of a contract ploy and they suspended him late in the season. Hakeem would eventually demand a trade but agreed to return to give it a shot to make the playoffs which ultimately didn't happen. Hakeem's rep clearly took a hit in the media if you look at MVP voting and All-NBA teams. He was also criticized in the local paper for his defense which you can see below.

Olajuwon softens on defense
EDDIE SEFKO Staff
SUN 02/16/1992 HOUSTON CHRONICLE, Section Sports, Page 10, 3 STAR Edition
Perhaps this is a little like blaming a four-car pileup on the girl in the bikini on the billboard.
But if the Rockets want to be a team and get their collective self in gear, then each and every member of the team must take his share of responsibility for the lame situation they are in.
And Hakeem Olajuwon is no exception.
No coach in the league disputes that Olajuwon is a force and can dominate any game if his biorhythms fall right on a given evening.
But Olajuwon this season has had his share of problems. The Rockets regret it when he starts drifting out beyond the free-throw line to pop jump shots rather than posting up offensively.
That point, however, is minor compared to the defensive situation.
Olajuwon has been a contender for Defensive Player of the Year in previous seasons. But not this year.
In the first 50 games of the Rockets' season, the primary opposing center has averaged 13.1 points per game. They have rebounded 9.3 missed shots per game.
While that isn't far from the league average among centers, for Olajuwon, the expectations are much higher.
Although coach Don Chaney doesn't feel Olajuwon has changed much as a defender, he concedes the 7-footer has his strengths and weaknesses.
"In man-to-man defense over the years, most guys Hakeem has played against have scored," Chaney said. "This year is no different.
"The thing with Hakeem is that his team defense is so good. He'll lean in to block shots. And a lot of times his guy will get the rebound and score.
"He's a great team defender. But as far as straight-up one-on-one, that's not his forte."
Eight times this season, an opposing center has scored more than 20 points against Olajuwon. Some of them aren't stars. Sam Bowie (34 points, 15 rebounds), Andrew Lang (13 and 13 in one game, 18 and 12 in another), Pervis Ellison (27 and 15) and Blair Rasmussen (14 and 10) have torched Olajuwon this year.
As Chaney said, a lot of the problem comes with Olajuwon over-extending himself defensively and then not getting enough weakside help from teammates.
And then there are times like Friday, when 6-1 Dee Brown of Boston went over Olajuwon for an offensive rebound. Brown cannot outjump Olajuwon, but he took advantage of a mental lapse.
Those are the kind of breakdowns none of the Rockets can afford. They can talk all they want about juggling things around with a trade. But the core of the Rockets -- Olajuwon, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith -- must use their brains every second they are on the court.
- Chron

I will say that when I do watch the games from 1992 (I've seen about 10-15), I don't really see him doing anything different on defense although in these situations, I give the benefit of the doubt to the local writers as they simply get to watch him more than I do/have. It should also be noted that their defense completely fell off the cliff in the games Hakeem missed though the fact they might've tanked in the last 5 games Hakeem missed might've played a part in that. I think the writer is stating his defense wasn't as good as it was in the past few seasons as opposed to say that he wasn't a great defender anymore. I think his effort might've declined in 1992 given the situation he was in. Offensively, I do see him taking more jumpshots because of the way offense was structured as guards clearly had more freedom and Hakeem would often get ignored on the low-post so drifting to the perimeter was his way of getting more shots up.

The 1991 and 1992 seasons are clearly two seasons where his level of play wasn't up to par with the rest of his prime years. I wouldn't call them an outlier during his career trajectory but there were reasons for why he wasn't as successful and the quotes/info above reflect that imo.

Some of the sources cited by DC are dead, but other than that, there's a lot of nice info relating back to how the Rockets were perceived at the time. There's been a lot of context provided for KG's Minny teams, so it only seems fair to provide the context for the Rockets post-1986.

Anyway, not really sure who'll get through that mountain of text, but I hope some posters on the fence about Hakeem's 86-93 career get a better feel of who he was in that time.

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