OKC Thunder Offseason 2017: The Reshapening

[retrobro90]

If Adams was actually a top 5-10 center you might have a point. He's more like 15-20.

If you take only the second half of last season into account, you are right. Otherwise, you are insane. He's top 10 in every NBA rankings from last year.

Would love to hear names of 14 to 19 Centers that are better than him.

Jokic
Cousins
Gobert
Jordan
Zeller
Turner
Gasol
Gasol
Whiteside
Horford
Towns
Embiid

Then there's a grouping of guys that are arguable
Pachulia
Lopez
Dedman
Monroe
Drummond
Chandler
Howard
Nurkic
Noel

Plus a couple of guys listed at pf that should be centers
Porzingis
Dieng


I wouldn't take all of those guys over him, but he hasn't separated himself clearly from any of them.

Id take Adams over Turner, Zeller, Pau, both Lopez's and every guy on the arguable list outside of maybe Nurkic. No idea why someone would argue Dewayne Dedmon or Gorgui Dieng is better.

Even a guy like Whiteside I think isn't quite as good as Adams. Most of what Adams does doesn't show up in the stat sheet. He's our primary communicator on D and is a way smarter player overall. Even if Steven isn't having his best defensive game from his own personal impact he's still calling out every switch/screen and directing everyone else where to be.

[Dadouv47]

People tends to forget how Adams murdered the spurs and GS during the playoffs. Of course last season with no spacing it was so easy for opponents to defend on him (and he clearly wasn't as good as before during the season, don't know if weights problems or not).

But given his age and his level when he's at 100%, his value to the thunder his wayyyyy higher than Oladipo's.

Remember Jerome James? Never be married to a guy based off a play-off run.

You know it's not about a playoff run. Otherwise I would be in love with Dion Waiters and Enes Kanter.

[Dadouv47]

If Adams was actually a top 5-10 center you might have a point. He's more like 15-20.

If you take only the second half of last season into account, you are right. Otherwise, you are insane. He's top 10 in every NBA rankings from last year.

Would love to hear names of 14 to 19 Centers that are better than him.

Jokic
Cousins
Gobert
Jordan
Zeller
Turner
Gasol
Gasol
Whiteside
Horford
Towns
Embiid

Then there's a grouping of guys that are arguable
Pachulia
Lopez
Dedman
Monroe
Drummond
Chandler
Howard
Nurkic
Noel

Plus a couple of guys listed at pf that should be centers
Porzingis
Dieng


I wouldn't take all of those guys over him, but he hasn't separated himself clearly from any of them.

Zeller, Pau Gasol, Turner over Adams? Seriously?

Saying Zaza or Monroe are ARGUABLY better than Adams is a really good joke

[ThunderBolt]

Do you guys think we would have been better off trading Adams instead of Oladipo? Oladipo is a 3 and D guy, unlike Dre. Plus we will need to have a good small ball lineup to comepete with the other teams at the top of the league. It's not near as hard to get a center right now.

Not really, VO was good, but didn't fit. I'm calling it now, Adams will be way better with PG, the spacing he's bringing alone will be huge.

Oladipo fit pretty well and was hampered just as much by the lack of spacing.

That's what I was the thinking. Part of the issue with spacing is Roberson. Oladipo helps with spacing as much spacing as Paul George. Oladipo and Paul George together with Russ would make some nice spacing.

[ThunderBolt]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246712/Nuggets-Looking-To-Unload-Salary-To-Pursue-George-Hill

Do something Presti

Only guy I'd want is Barton. Faried is the opposite of a stretch 4 and isn't good.

The problem is that Barton doesn't shed much salary. He's cheap. I posted on the Denver board a couple of days ago and they expect a first round pick for him.

[Pillendreher]

It's not outrageous to argue that Cody Zeller had a better season than Adams:

RPM for Centers: Zeller 5th, Adams 20th
DRPM overall: Zeller 13th, Adams 64th
DBPM: Zeller 2.1, Adams 1,2
TS%: Zeller 60.4, Adams 58.9
RAPM overall: Zeller 30th, Adams 51st
DRAPM overall: Zeller 15th, Adams 94th
On/Off DRtG: Zeller -5.7 Adams -3.2

Adams needs to be better, period. Starting reasonably strong and then just falling off a cliff after January isn't gonna be neough. Over the last 33 games, our oncourt DRtG with Adams was worse than it was with Kanter - 108.7 to 107.8. Over the first 49 games, our DRtG with Adams on the floor was 100.6. He was rough and the stats show it.

[Pillendreher]

Not really, VO was good, but didn't fit. I'm calling it now, Adams will be way better with PG, the spacing he's bringing alone will be huge.

Oladipo fit pretty well and was hampered just as much by the lack of spacing.

That's what I was the thinking. Part of the issue with spacing is Roberson. Oladipo helps with spacing as much spacing as Paul George. Oladipo and Paul George together with Russ would make some nice spacing.

Yeah I think trading Adams might have been better long term if he doesn't improve. That would have been a very good 1-3 combo.

[ThunderBolt]

Oladipo fit pretty well and was hampered just as much by the lack of spacing.

That's what I was the thinking. Part of the issue with spacing is Roberson. Oladipo helps with spacing as much spacing as Paul George. Oladipo and Paul George together with Russ would make some nice spacing.

Yeah I think trading Adams might have been better long term if he doesn't improve. That would have been a very good 1-3 combo.

When you have great spacing on the wings, guys like Nene and McGhee look really good. I want to keep Dre but would prefer him coming off the bench.

[retrobro90]

Not really, VO was good, but didn't fit. I'm calling it now, Adams will be way better with PG, the spacing he's bringing alone will be huge.

Oladipo fit pretty well and was hampered just as much by the lack of spacing.

That's what I was the thinking. Part of the issue with spacing is Roberson. Oladipo helps with spacing as much spacing as Paul George. Oladipo and Paul George together with Russ would make some nice spacing.

PG helps with spacing much much more than Dipo.

[retrobro90]

That's what I was the thinking. Part of the issue with spacing is Roberson. Oladipo helps with spacing as much spacing as Paul George. Oladipo and Paul George together with Russ would make some nice spacing.

Yeah I think trading Adams might have been better long term if he doesn't improve. That would have been a very good 1-3 combo.

When you have great spacing on the wings, guys like Nene and McGhee look really good. I want to keep Dre but would prefer him coming off the bench.

Dre off the bench? Then what's his utility? The only reason you keep a guy like Dre is so he can guard the oppositions best perimeter player.

[Pillendreher]

Yeah I think trading Adams might have been better long term if he doesn't improve. That would have been a very good 1-3 combo.

When you have great spacing on the wings, guys like Nene and McGhee look really good. I want to keep Dre but would prefer him coming off the bench.

Dre off the bench? Then what's his utility? The only reason you keep a guy like Dre is so he can guard the oppositions best perimeter player.

Yeah. I think once Dre loses his starting spot, he's gone. I played 2K17 a couple of months ago and managed to get both Justin Anderson and Wesley Matthews from the Mavs. I had no more use for Dre with Dipo and Abrines.

[Dadouv47]

It's not outrageous to argue that Cody Zeller had a better season than Adams:

RPM for Centers: Zeller 5th, Adams 20th
DRPM overall: Zeller 13th, Adams 64th
DBPM: Zeller 2.1, Adams 1,2
TS%: Zeller 60.4, Adams 58.9
RAPM overall: Zeller 30th, Adams 51st
DRAPM overall: Zeller 15th, Adams 94th
On/Off DRtG: Zeller -5.7 Adams -3.2

Adams needs to be better, period. Starting reasonably strong and then just falling off a cliff after January isn't gonna be neough. Over the last 33 games, our oncourt DRtG with Adams was worse than it was with Kanter - 108.7 to 107.8. Over the first 49 games, our DRtG with Adams on the floor was 100.6. He was rough and the stats show it.

Adams needs to get back to his previous shape, that's for sure. I'm not saying Zeller of any other didn't have a better, but saying overall zeller > Adams is overacting IMO. It's like saying LMA is **** because he was trash this year. 7 months ago Adams was by far our second best player and outplayed Gobert (not each game against Utah).

Anyway we will see if he can get to his previous shape or not. But since Adams is playing in OKC, apart from last 6 months, he was only improving his game (by the way Presti matched Kanter's salary because we didn't know Adams was going to improve so much, otherwise he would never give 17 millions for a back up Center, even if average).

[retrobro90]

If we're just talking about perimeter defense would y'all rather have Dre and PG or Kawhi and Danny Green?

[ThunderBolt]

Yeah I think trading Adams might have been better long term if he doesn't improve. That would have been a very good 1-3 combo.

When you have great spacing on the wings, guys like Nene and McGhee look really good. I want to keep Dre but would prefer him coming off the bench.

Dre off the bench? Then what's his utility? The only reason you keep a guy like Dre is so he can guard the oppositions best perimeter player.

He could still do that for 20-25mpg.

[slick_watts]

andre roberson is a decent player. we don't have a lot of those. benching roberson would be counterproductive. he should be playing 30 minutes a game.

including the playoffs, the starters adams-gibson-roberson-oladipo-westbrook were +14.1pp100. moving roberson to sg (where he has the most utility) and swapping oladipo for paul george improves the lineup. finding a pf to put in there (not jerami grant) should be a top priority for the remainder of the offseason assuming george is not open to playing the position. otherwise we should be as little doing as possible to disrupt that unit imo.

[Old Man Game]

When this is the case, something has gone seriously wrong with the system.

Read on Twitter

[Pillendreher]

Read on Twitter

Hot damn. So I guess the Bucks are gonna dump Middleton to sign Rose?

[Balkman32]

KD is coming back. Hint how he never fully answered the question of why he left and he never trash the organization. He went to gs to learn how to play better and steal their plays and will be coming back to share that knowledge.


One man can dream right.



Side note : let this be a lesson learned to never doubt Presti the gawd


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Yeah he is signing the mid Level and leaving $30 million in the table.


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[Balkman32]

It's not that they are THAT good, but as of right now you are replacing Dipo with Abrines or Ferguson. You are replacing Taj and Sabonis with Jerami Grant. There is just too much unknown to say how much it adds. Dipo, Roberson and Taj is better than PG13, Abrines and Grant. Especially when you talk about what is left to come in off the bench.

There is still work to be done. The starting PF and backup PG are not on this roster. They have Kanters and Singlers (by next year this contract will be an asset because it will be an expiring w/ a club option for the next season and ain't no one gonna pick that one up) contract they can move. They have the mid Level @ $5.1 mill to offer and can take back $4.9 million by using a trade exception.

Plus we will resign Andre - play him at the 2-guard and he will win 1st team all defense for the next 5 years since he is now a guard.


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[Balkman32]

paul george is not a top 10 player.

Top 15??


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