2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[vincecarter4pres]

If we did get Porter, I wonder if the Wiz would do a sign and trade so they get something back. Booker used to play for the Wizards, I wonder if him, Kilpatrick and a second and the rights to JPV would be enough. It is about $11m in salary compared to $24m. I also think we could probably give Hamilton away for free and we would then have enough cap for a salary dump or Olynyk.
I'd also look to bring KJ back for the minimum.

Lin / Dinwiddie / Goodwin
Russell / Whitehead
LeVert / Harris / KJM
Porter / RHJ / Acy
Mozgov / Allen / Nicholson

If we wind up in a S&T, I still think it's something like RHJ/Booker/Hamilton/TPE.

i mentioned this yestarday.... that we shouldnt be suprised to see RHJ for porter in a sign and trade. wiz agree not to match, they get an asset in RHJ, and porter gets his 5th year.

people wont want to give up RHJ and pay porter the max but really if we get porter RHJ is 50/50 to be gone when his extension is due anyhow. if we can attach booker to that deal i like it better. would give us cap room during the year ot take on bad salary

S&T's are still limited to 4 years and smaller raise %'s afaik, but it guarantees the other team will not match.

I can see it, with Porter as the long term solution as the starting 4 who can easily slide to the 3 when needed.

[Prokorov]

[
Only real extension coming is Russell and RHJ in 2 years.

"only"? thats 40-50 million dollars work of extension right there. you also have levert the folowing season for another 15-20 million.

Porter will only have 2 years left on his deal so the overlap is minimal.

do you plan on letting porter walk at age 28? He will need a new contract as well.

The following year he is expiring so it's easy to move on if we want to shed salary. As long has he stays solid on the court his contract his movable towards the back end. We'll still have max cap space next year even with Porter on the books and the one season in 2019 after Russell/RHJ extensions all the bad contracts come off in 2020 so it's hardly a major complication. It actually fits really well with the contracts we have now and have to pay in the future.

we would be over the cap every year after next season even with bad money expiring.

RHJ/Dlo/Porter alone is close to 80 million in 2 seasons. then you need leverts extension the following year, and poters extension and allens extension the year after that.

you can say there is no tough decision or major complication but we have to decide on:

-do we match any offer on RHJ or let him walk to get under the cap?
-Would we match a 4/106 deal to Dlo?
-Would we let porter walk after his deal or trade him for 75 cents on the dollar?
-Do we match up to a 4/106 deal on levert?

3 years in a row we will have to give massive extensions or potentiall match huge RFA offers and also decide on a second porter deal in his prime.

That's if RHJ pans out and worth the money. Yes I would trade Porter if we were chasing a big FA in 2020 and needed max space.

You can't keep singing C level players because once Russell, Levert and RHJ gets extensions your near the cap anyway and have no talent. The time is now to build something before the extensions hit so you can go over the cap to keep those guys.
It's either sign a guy this year and one next year or try and convince two stars to come next year otherwise the cap is gone with extensions.

thats what im sayig... dont sign C guys... which is why im not maxing porter. your overpaying a C+ guy.

i think if we sign porter good shot RHJ isnt back, i agree with you there.

i think if you let porter walk your not getting a free agent..... it would mean porter was a flop, you dumped RHJ and the team is probably not any good. we probably go closer to a tank then chasing top free agents.

either way... i dont have a chrystal ball... the point was there are going to be complicated decisions to make.

its easy if guys either flop or are great. but if they are in between what do you do? like KCP/porter right now are kind of inbetween to you match on them or not?

if thats the case with Dlo/levert/rhj/porter those are touch calls and if you do match/extend them your capped out

[Rockice_24]

none of that fit stuff matters to me because of the cap situation. any player we give 15M or more to from here on you have to ask this question:

is player X plus Dlo/levert/RHJ/Allen more then a 35 win team? because thats what we would be locked into long term with little or no cap and no pick until 2019 to add to that core.

No really true at all. A simple dump of Lin (expiring and productive is easy to move) gives us Max cap space to add to D-Lo, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Allen.

What year are you referring to? next year we will have max cap room or decent cap space even signing porter.

its every year after that where we are capped out and the crunch starts.

So what. Russell/RHJ get their extensions in 2019 and you know what we have no cap anyway. So you can be near the cap in 2019 without two big signings or be over the cap with two max contracts on the books by signing one this year and one next.

[Prokorov]

If we wind up in a S&T, I still think it's something like RHJ/Booker/Hamilton/TPE.

i mentioned this yestarday.... that we shouldnt be suprised to see RHJ for porter in a sign and trade. wiz agree not to match, they get an asset in RHJ, and porter gets his 5th year.

people wont want to give up RHJ and pay porter the max but really if we get porter RHJ is 50/50 to be gone when his extension is due anyhow. if we can attach booker to that deal i like it better. would give us cap room during the year ot take on bad salary

S&T's are still limited to 4 years and smaller raise %'s afaik, but it guarantees the other team will not match.

I can see it, with Porter as the long term solution as the starting 4 who can easily slide to the 3 when needed.

no idea... but lets assume that porter agrees either way:

Nets in: Porter

Wizards in: RHJ, Booker

they take on 12 million this year, 4.5 million next year, and RHJ hits RFA the year after. i think thats better for the wiz then just letting him walk. not sure if they would prefer to match or not though.

for us (assuming we are maxing porter either way) im fine with this and may even prefer it. im not sure i want to worry about RHJ's restricted free agency in 2 years with Dlo also up and a maxed porter. it would also accelerate our cap space next year.

after maxing porter we would still have like 18.5M in cap room with this deal.

[vincecarter4pres]

I could see that as the long term plan if Porter was cool with transitioning mainly to the 4 and Washington was good on that return, especially if they see Russell as a long term 2 and LeVert as a 3. Pretty much modern positionless basketball.

They deal with Lin when his extension comes up next summer, but have huge cap to go after Avery Bradley to plug in at the point. He almost never deals with true point guard duties, at least and especially as the primary ball handler and playmaker and can guard the opposition's best perimeter player each night. Plus all 4 guys can slide around on switches, very fluid.

Maybe Lin is retained as a perennial 6MOTY candidate, one of Skil or Dinwiddie is retained. Eventually Mozgov and Nicholson's expirings are used in trade to either add depth, take on a bad contract for additional picks, or one of our young guys and a pick is dealt for a blockbuster move.

In 2 years if it's all coming together you're looking at something like:

Bradley
Russell
LeVert
Porter
Allen

With a bench of Lin and 1 of Skill/Dinwiddie and backups 3 and bigs through trades and MLE signings.

[Rockice_24]

Your not getting it. In 2019 you are either rebuilding again by letting D-Lo and RHJ walk (they will get paid big bucks) or you sign them to extensions and have no room to sign anyone else until 2021 when the rest of the junk comes off the books.

25M for D-Lo and 20ish for RHJ along with the rest of the garbage puts us up near the cap.

Or you could sign Porter and go for another max guy next year and win some games. By 2021 the guys you signed are at or near expiring and you can figure out where to go from there. either rebuild or resign.

With no picks it makes no sense to not spend the cap on players to win now. None at all.

[Prokorov]

No really true at all. A simple dump of Lin (expiring and productive is easy to move) gives us Max cap space to add to D-Lo, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Allen.

What year are you referring to? next year we will have max cap room or decent cap space even signing porter.

its every year after that where we are capped out and the crunch starts.

So what. Russell/RHJ get their extensions in 2019 and you know what we have no cap anyway. So you can be near the cap in 2019 without two big signings or be over the cap with two max contracts on the books by signing one this year and one next.

Not sure what you are saying... are you saying a big singing this year, a big signing next year, and then match on Dlo/RHJ?

if so, your probably in the tax or close to it. and if your in the tax at 35 wins thats not a great spot to be in, especially with levert due the next year.

again... i look at detroit as the pessimistic scenario of where we could be:

-capped out
-in the tax
-drummond on a max and not an all-star
-need to match on KCP
-need to match on stanley johnson after next season
-need to decide on a second deal for tobias harris
-30-39 win type team

again... no chrystal ball but that is certainly a possibility if these young guys dont become all-stars

[Prokorov]

Your not getting it. In 2019 you are either rebuilding again by letting D-Lo and RHJ walk (they will get paid big bucks) or you sign them to extensions and have no room to sign anyone else until 2021 when the rest of the junk comes off the books.

25M for D-Lo and 20ish for RHJ along with the rest of the garbage puts us up near the cap.

Or you could sign Porter and go for another max guy next year and win some games. By 2021 the guys you signed are at or near expiring and you can figure out where to go from there. either rebuild or resign.

With no picks it makes no sense to not spend the cap on players to win now. None at all.

i agree.

i also think it makes no sense to spend cap on player to win now that arent good enough to get wins now.... then you end up looking like the pistons. i dont want to look like the pistons.

i understand what you are saying. if we extend Dlo/RHJ we are gonna be over the cap anyhow so may as well be over the cap AND have 2 big contract guys we sign prior to those extensions since you can exceed the cap to sign your own guys.

problem is, like marks said:

“I think we’ve got to really evaluate the roster, you hope to get all your targets that you go for — but does that really make you better? Does it get you to 30 wins, 35 wins?” Marks said.

“The objective here is for us to be in the playoffs. When that comes, we’ll have to wait and see, but you don’t want to go and sign free agents and next thing your payroll is capped out and so forth and you’re a 35-win team.”

detroit is one possibility of what you can become if things go wrong

portland is a possibiltiy of what you can become if things go semi-good:
-CJ/lillard extensinos were coming so they loaded up on FAs.
-then they singed extensions
-them they had to match on crabbe

lillar and CJ became allsatars. hopefully dlo//porter would as well. if they were allstar and not superstars we would look something like portland east

[Trader_Joe]

If we did get Porter, I wonder if the Wiz would do a sign and trade so they get something back. Booker used to play for the Wizards, I wonder if him, Kilpatrick and a second and the rights to JPV would be enough. It is about $11m in salary compared to $24m. I also think we could probably give Hamilton away for free and we would then have enough cap for a salary dump or Olynyk.
I'd also look to bring KJ back for the minimum.

Lin / Dinwiddie / Goodwin
Russell / Whitehead
LeVert / Harris / KJM
Porter / RHJ / Acy
Mozgov / Allen / Nicholson

If we wind up in a S&T, I still think it's something like RHJ/Booker/Hamilton/TPE.

i mentioned this yestarday.... that we shouldnt be suprised to see RHJ for porter in a sign and trade. wiz agree not to match, they get an asset in RHJ, and porter gets his 5th year.

people wont want to give up RHJ and pay porter the max but really if we get porter RHJ is 50/50 to be gone when his extension is due anyhow. if we can attach booker to that deal i like it better. would give us cap room during the year ot take on bad salary

No 5th years in sign and trades.

[Prokorov]

I could see that as the long term plan if Porter was cool with transitioning mainly to the 4 and Washington was good on that return, especially if they see Russell as a long term 2 and LeVert as a 3. Pretty much modern positionless basketball.

They deal with Lin when his extension comes up next summer, but have huge cap to go after Avery Bradley to plug in at the point. He almost never deals with true point guard duties, at least and especially as the primary ball handler and playmaker and can guard the opposition's best perimeter player each night. Plus all 4 guys can slide around on switches, very fluid.

Maybe Lin is retained as a perennial 6MOTY candidate, one of Skil or Dinwiddie is retained. Eventually Mozgov and Nicholson's expirings are used in trade to either add depth, take on a bad contract for additional picks, or one of our young guys and a pick is dealt for a blockbuster move.

In 2 years if it's all coming together you're looking at something like:

Bradley
Russell
LeVert
Porter
Allen

With a bench of Lin and 1 of Skill/Dinwiddie and backups 3 and bigs through trades and MLE signings.

Yup... if porter is in moving RHJ makes some sense for sure. then thats one less 15-20M extension to worry about.

I love bradleys fit but i wouldnt make that singing. id hedge my bet on the future and look to take a useful salary dump. someone on a bad deal but still can play and a pick or young player attached to it... so we fill that vet role but also add a pick to the mix.

[Paradise]

The Nets reportedly will finally get their meeting with top target Otto Porter Jr. on Monday. And if they want any chance of landing the best restricted free agent on the market, they’ll have to give him every penny they can.

The Wizards small forward already has a four-year, $106 million maximum deal from Sacramento in hand, starting at $24.75 million in the first season. When Brooklyn meets with Porter and agent David Falk – a meeting first reported by CBS Sports – they can offer him the same amount. He’s expected to meet with a third team as well, but in the end, Washington holds the cards.

http://nypost.com/2017/07/03/the-nets-are-getting-their-shot-with-otto-porter/

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[Rockice_24]

Your not getting it. In 2019 you are either rebuilding again by letting D-Lo and RHJ walk (they will get paid big bucks) or you sign them to extensions and have no room to sign anyone else until 2021 when the rest of the junk comes off the books.

25M for D-Lo and 20ish for RHJ along with the rest of the garbage puts us up near the cap.

Or you could sign Porter and go for another max guy next year and win some games. By 2021 the guys you signed are at or near expiring and you can figure out where to go from there. either rebuild or resign.

With no picks it makes no sense to not spend the cap on players to win now. None at all.

i agree.

i also think it makes no sense to spend cap on player to win now that arent good enough to get wins now.... then you end up looking like the pistons. i dont want to look like the pistons.

i understand what you are saying. if we extend Dlo/RHJ we are gonna be over the cap anyhow so may as well be over the cap AND have 2 big contract guys we sign prior to those extensions since you can exceed the cap to sign your own guys.

problem is, like marks said:

“I think we’ve got to really evaluate the roster, you hope to get all your targets that you go for — but does that really make you better? Does it get you to 30 wins, 35 wins?” Marks said.

“The objective here is for us to be in the playoffs. When that comes, we’ll have to wait and see, but you don’t want to go and sign free agents and next thing your payroll is capped out and so forth and you’re a 35-win team.”

detroit is one possibility of what you can become if things go wrong

portland is a possibiltiy of what you can become if things go semi-good:
-CJ/lillard extensinos were coming so they loaded up on FAs.
-then they singed extensions
-them they had to match on crabbe

lillar and CJ became allsatars. hopefully dlo//porter would as well. if they were allstar and not superstars we would look something like portland east

I think we're on the same page here somewhat.

Yes the last thing you want is 4-5 year deals, a 35 win team, and no flexibility I get that. The problem is we don't have our picks though so we have no chance of improving without signing anyone. Not signing anyone is not an option and Marks sees that based on last year going hard for RFA's.

If we sign nobody then we have max cap space and give away a top 3 pick. We enter 2018 with even more cap space but a crap team nobody wants to sign with. We maybe get lucky and land another salary dump next year and add another piece but then go into 2019 needing to use up most of our cap space on D-Lo and RHJ while still having a horrible roster. By 2020 Levert is up for a contract and any money that is freed up goes to him as well as D-Lo and RHJ the year before. We have some flexibility just not max cap space. We now have our picks back but have minimal talent and another 2-3 years of rebuilding with draft picks.

or

We sign Porter 4 years and improve our roster to maybe win 30-35 games this year. Now we go into 2018 with 3-4 positions locked up with good young players (no superstars but above average two way starters). If we move Lin we have max cap space to do a salary dump, sign a max guy or multiple solid players. Now you are maybe pushing for the playoffs if the max guy is good enough in 2019. Now we have D-Lo, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Allen and your picks. Maybe Cousins is the guy we bring in come 2018. He might like the bright lights big city. Now you have a very good young lineup and playoffs are realistic. Now D-lo and RHJ get their extensions and yes you are capped out but at least have a good young team to build around with our picks. What's wrong with making a run with a good young squad over the next 3-4 years. If the team starts looking like a 30 win team and no upside then Porter has two years left and is easier to trade because while over paid he'll only be 25 and producing. You let D-Lo and RHJ walk come 2019 you have a blank slate again and all your picks. That is basically the same situation as above except you made a two-three year run to try and win at least rather than just continue to lose for the next 4-5 years.

I mean why not have Rus, Levert, Porter, RHJ + another max guy (Cousins) and be over the cap trying to win
compared to D-lo, Levert, RHJ and under the cap but not far enough to do anything major with it and continuing to lose 60 games.

Take the risk and see what happens. Worst case is you rebuild in 2-3 years anyway. That team can improve though, they're not on the decline.

That way you can see a talented young squad in 2019 and based on that make the consideration for resigned D-Lo and RHJ or going through that year into 2020 and rebuilding. Only longer term deal is the one you sign the following season in 2018 like my example Cousins who will have 3 years. Porter by the 2020 season will only have 1 year left a moveable.

[Trader_Joe]

With the East losing talent left and right (Millsap, Teaue and PG13), I wonder if we could be in the PO race with a couple quality signings..say Porter and Olynyk.

Sign and trade for Porter so the Wiz don't match (Booker, RHJ).
If Boston signs Hayward they have to renounce KO.

Dump Hamilton (shouldn't be hard)

Lin / Dinwiddie / Goodwin
Russell / Whitehead / Kilpatrick
LeVert / Harris
Porter / KO / Acy
Mozgov / Allen / Nicholson

[Dr Positivity]

Want Valanciunas for free?

[Rockice_24]

Want Valanciunas for free?

We'll give you Mozgov and Nicholson

[Paradise]

Want Valanciunas for free?

Nah. He's too slow for our tempo.


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[vincecarter4pres]

Want Valanciunas for free?

Define, "free"...

[Dr Positivity]

Want Valanciunas for free?

We'll give you Mozgov and Nicholson

JV for Nicholson might be do-able... Raptors need to cut like 14 million in salary I believe. Difference between Valanciunas and Nicholson + dumping Joseph would be enough

We could also do Carroll for Nicholson if Nets actually prefer that. Actually that seems like a pretty decent deal. Maybe a 2nd included would seal it

[Prokorov]

I think we're on the same page here somewhat.

Yes the last thing you want is 4-5 year deals, a 35 win team, and no flexibility I get that. The problem is we don't have our picks though so we have no chance of improving without signing anyone. Not signing anyone is not an option and Marks sees that based on last year going hard for RFA's.

If we sign nobody then we have max cap space and give away a top 3 pick. We enter 2018 with even more cap space but a crap team nobody wants to sign with. We maybe get lucky and land another salary dump next year and add another piece but then go into 2019 needing to use up most of our cap space on D-Lo and RHJ while still having a horrible roster. By 2020 Levert is up for a contract and any money that is freed up goes to him as well as D-Lo and RHJ the year before. We have some flexibility just not max cap space. We now have our picks back but have minimal talent and another 2-3 years of rebuilding with draft picks.

or

We sign Porter 4 years and improve our roster to maybe win 30-35 games this year. Now we go into 2018 with 3-4 positions locked up with good young players (no superstars but above average two way starters). If we move Lin we have max cap space to do a salary dump, sign a max guy or multiple solid players. Now you are maybe pushing for the playoffs if the max guy is good enough in 2019. Now we have D-Lo, Levert, Porter, RHJ, Allen and your picks. Maybe Cousins is the guy we bring in come 2018. He might like the bright lights big city. Now you have a very good young lineup and playoffs are realistic. Now D-lo and RHJ get their extensions and yes you are capped out but at least have a good young team to build around with our picks. What's wrong with making a run with a good young squad over the next 3-4 years. If the team starts looking like a 30 win team and no upside then Porter has two years left and is easier to trade because while over paid he'll only be 25 and producing. You let D-Lo and RHJ walk come 2019 you have a blank slate again and all your picks. That is basically the same situation as above except you made a two-three year run to try and win at least rather than just continue to lose for the next 4-5 years.

I mean why not have Rus, Levert, Porter, RHJ + another max guy (Cousins) and be over the cap trying to win
compared to D-lo, Levert, RHJ and under the cap but not far enough to do anything major with it and continuing to lose 60 games.

Take the risk and see what happens. Worst case is you rebuild in 2-3 years anyway. That team can improve though, they're not on the decline.

That way you can see a talented young squad in 2019 and based on that make the consideration for resigned D-Lo and RHJ or going through that year into 2020 and rebuilding. Only longer term deal is the one you sign the following season in 2018 like my example Cousins who will have 3 years. Porter by the 2020 season will only have 1 year left a moveable.

Yeah i got what you were saying... sorry if my responses werent clear. i agree that is our situation and can see value in going over the cap before our guys are due extensions... its just dangerous to do it without singing the right guys or you start to look like the blazers.

Cousins... yeah no doubt. but once you get into that grey are off KCp/Porter/THj its starts to get tricky.

and i wasnt saying it cant be done, and the cap cant be managed properly.... this all stemmed from me saying "it causes tough deisions down the road" and you replying seemingly like you didnt think so.

we'll see. overpaying porter is much less an issue if next year we sign a B tier free agent. gotta get that guy though.

[Rockice_24]

Want Valanciunas for free?

We'll give you Mozgov and Nicholson

JV for Nicholson might be do-able... Raptors need to cut like 14 million in salary I believe. Difference between Valanciunas and Nicholson + dumping Joseph would be enough

We could also do Carroll for Nicholson if Nets actually prefer that. Actually that seems like a pretty decent deal

Nope Moz and Nicholson are a packaged deal for JV.

I'd do that Carroll deal only if we miss out on Porter.