2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Paradise]

:lol:

Read on Twitter

LMAO

$50 million for Dion Waiters.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[ChokeFasncists]

:lol:

Read on Twitter

Is it inDolan's idea or Horny's?

[Crunky]

J. Green offer will dictate what Rhj receives a year from now. There are going to be alot disappointed free agents when Cap Space disappears.

[antique0o0]

Nah, RHJ won't get 17 millions extension. No way.

[vincecarter4pres]

Hello folks, long time lurker that decided to join. I don't believe Nets are actually in talks for JJ Reddick but rather he is using the Nets for leverage. I think instead Sean is looking at the Raptors to dump Carol and assets right now to us since the east is historically weak right now. If not I think he going for JaMychal Green or Muscula, both relatively young PFs if the Nets not totally sold on RHJ.

Welcome!

Green would be nice if not too expensive. Can Muscala defend?

Carroll would be good if they give us good stuff. Health is the main concern with him.

Whoa, when is this post from? A week ago or more? **** is like clairvoyant if so lol.

[vincecarter4pres]

:lol:

Read on Twitter

No **** ing way, is this real?!

Edit: Fake. *sadface

[ChokeFasncists]

Well most people lol. It's pretty neck and neck at the moment and I'm sure there's lots of people that would even say that Russell is better right now.

im not sure if russell would be "better" then lin with a small inprovement...

Seriously, ain't so sure 'bout that.

Also no I see LeVert being a SG or a PG since both him and D'Angelo are capable of being primary ball handlers and are great passers. Also he played a decent amount of point at Michigan. It doesn't really matter which one is penciled in at point.

im not sure what Russell is longterm. But i do agree that Levert is more a SG. he is a ball handler and at 6'5" is undersized for SF.

ESPN and Bballreference list him at 6'7?

He looks OK next to LBJ. He's fine at the three spot

[ChokeFasncists]

Hello folks, long time lurker that decided to join. I don't believe Nets are actually in talks for JJ Reddick but rather he is using the Nets for leverage. I think instead Sean is looking at the Raptors to dump Carol and assets right now to us since the east is historically weak right now. If not I think he going for JaMychal Green or Muscula, both relatively young PFs if the Nets not totally sold on RHJ.

Welcome!

Green would be nice if not too expensive. Can Muscala defend?

Carroll would be good if they give us good stuff. Health is the main concern with him.

Whoa, when is this post from? A week ago or more? **** is like clairvoyant if so lol.

lol, na, only like 2 to 3 days, this thread runs quick

[vincecarter4pres]

I see it like this... if RHJ isn't getting offers of at least $15 million a year, I'll be highly disappointed, because it means he's awful.

Even with cap space drying up, a good, young, athletic player whose restricted is going to be overpaid, based on a mixture of current abilities and impact, and remaining ceiling and likelihood to achieve it or come close.

Even if he's only slightly improved his all around game, but has gotten smarter and at least has a respectable 3 ball in the low 30's, where if you leave him barnyard open he's nailing it, he's going to be a legit multi-position 30mpg league leading role player.

That guy I described above is getting paid whoppers at 25 years of age while restricted.

I'm not saying I'd want to keep him, I'm not saying I agree with the market value. I'm not saying contracts for players like that might lower as an in general, but for a restricted guy, if a team with cap deems them worth it, they'll chuck racks and hope he's left to walk.

A max for RHJ with a higher cap will probably be something sick like 4/111, so again, equating max to $20 million a season is incorrect. If he has improved a decent amount and still shows signs of an even higher ceiling, someone is throwing him Crabbe money.


I'll say this though, either Markinson currently values RHJ as a keeper, or overvalue him as a trade chip, cause they supposedly tried like hell to move up in this draft and if freakin' Trey Lyles and the 24 got up to 13, RHJ and the 22 most definitely could have done the same.


IDK about RHJ. I'd use him to facilitate a S&T in a heartbeat, but as much as I understand not everyone can be a shooter, I dislike players who can't shoot, so for me personally, he's very expendable.

[Prokorov]

Let the market dictate it that's all, if someone offers 15million let him walk. When we get all stars on the team then we worry about role players, not the other way around.

The market has already dictated the price for toung athletic role guys like RHJ.

you dont want to bring him back. that is perfectly reasonable. and its why i brought it up... because it is really something that can go both ways. the counter argument to your line of think would be this:

whether we bring back RHJ or not, we are going to be over the cap (assuming a porter max). so why not match on RHJ if you cant use that money on another player anyhow? not my argument... but thats the counter argument.

thats basically the situation the wizards and pistons are in now. KCP and Porter are role players. max contracts for thosse guys are HORRIBLE contracts. but both the wiz and pistons are already over the cap... so why not match anyhow?

No one has offered KCP anything so I doubt he gets 15million. We'll see but he'll be in for a disappointment if no teams offer him what he's expecting. Andre Roberson will be lucky to get 12million, dude chocked hard in the playoffs couldn't even make freethrows lol.

KCP will get the max. either from us or the kings or the pistons matching. he will go far beyond 15 million.

Roberson will get 13-16 million. he is hiighly regarded around the league as a premiuer lock down defender.

i wouldnt want to pay those guys but teams will, thats market value. id rahter someone else make the msitake though

[ChokeFasncists]

People on this board just think that with even the tiniest bit of improvement, D'Angelo is a better player than Lin next season

You mean only some people I hope?

and a lot of people would rather see the backcourt of the future in Russell/Levert start together

It looks to me like Russell would most likely play SG and LeVert would most likely play SF

Russell: He's 6'5, he models his game on Manu and he's not particularly quick. The league is going smaller not bigger. He started at PG in LA but didn't do too well. They put Clarkson next to him and he got better. One knock on him is that he's not a good enough leader to play PG. OTOH, his shooter/scoring ability would be a plus at SG.

LVJ: He's 6'7 and plays like LBJ that's a bit smaller and less athletic. He can guard LBJ OK, he'll be able to guard any SF. He just needs to bulk up. Last season, they had ample opportunity to play him at SG towards the end of the season but he barely did. It's the same logic with RHJ, who exclusive plays at PF until he has it down.

Well most people lol. It's pretty neck and neck at the moment and I'm sure there's lots of people that would even say that Russell is better right now.

How would you know? I just don't get that they are so many bad bball minds here, at least the regulars right now (NS doesn't count). If you're talking about the individual offensive players, then you might have a point, but overall? That's pretty absurd, not even close.

Also no I see LeVert being a SG or a PG since both him and D'Angelo are capable of being primary ball handlers and are great passers. Also he played a decent amount of point at Michigan. It doesn't really matter which one is penciled in at point.

Just cuz a certain player played a certain position in college, doesn't he will play that in the NBA. Just cuz they are capable of being primary ball handlers and are great passers doesn't mean they will play PG.

And no he didn't have any opportunity to play SG last year. The Nets had a very unbalanced roster last season because of Their abundance of guards because of Lins inability to stay healthy. LeVert was literally the only reasonable option at SF for the Nets once they moved RHJ to power forward. The only other player who was even physically capable of playing SF was KJ who we basically aqcuired for free and is no longer even on the team. He wasn't even taller than LeVert, he was our tallest perimeter player last season which is the only reason he started at SF.

I don't know what you watched last season. JHar started at SF and did well. When Kenny wanted to start LVJ, he started Foye with him. JHar is more suitable to play SF cuz he's buff and not very fast.

[Prokorov]

Sean Marks will have to make some tough decisions a year from now. Do you Cap out the worst roster in the NBA or do you let guys like Lin and Rhj walk and tank. I prefer tanking because I don't even see us at the level of Cha, Mia, Det, 76ers and Orl they all have better roster than we do.

i like option C:

-dont sign porter.
-add picks/young players via taking on salary dumps
-trade RHJ if you
-Continue forward with the core o Lin/Dlo/Levert/RHJ/Allen

dont tank. tanking never works and would completely destroy the culture we built. probably leads to marks and or kenny being let go or going elsewhere in a few years.

Lin is expendable with D'lo and Levert here, his age doesn't match the teams window. I doubt he get's a big offer on the open market because almost every team has a point guard or is developing one.

Lin is this teams leader. he is critical for the mentoring and development of young guys. he is worth keeping. especially since he probably doesnt bring back the value worth it in a trade

[Crunky]

To me personally Lin is expendable and so is Rhj, that's just my opinion. It won't shock me to see both traded by trade deadline this season.

[ChokeFasncists]

I see it like this... if RHJ isn't getting offers of at least $15 million a year, I'll be highly disappointed, because it means he's awful.

Even with cap space drying up, a good, young, athletic player whose restricted is going to be overpaid, based on a mixture of current abilities and impact, and remaining ceiling and likelihood to achieve it or come close.

Even if he's only slightly improved his all around game, but has gotten smarter and at least has a respectable 3 ball in the low 30's, where if you leave him barnyard open he's nailing it, he's going to be a legit multi-position 30mpg league leading role player.

That guy I described above is getting paid whoppers at 25 years of age while restricted.

I'm not saying I'd want to keep him, I'm not saying I agree with the market value. I'm not saying contracts for players like that might lower as an in general, but for a restricted guy, if a team with cap deems them worth it, they'll chuck racks and hope he's left to walk.

A max for RHJ with a higher cap will probably be something sick like 4/111, so again, equating max to $20 million a season is incorrect. If he has improved a decent amount and still shows signs of an even higher ceiling, someone is throwing him Crabbe money.


I'll say this though, either Markinson currently values RHJ as a keeper, or overvalue him as a trade chip, cause they supposedly tried like hell to move up in this draft and if freakin' Trey Lyles and the 24 got up to 13, RHJ and the 22 most definitely could have done the same.


IDK about RHJ. I'd use him to facilitate a S&T in a heartbeat, but as much as I understand not everyone can be a shooter, I dislike players who can't shoot, so for me personally, he's very expendable.

Come on now, I can understand not liking perimeter players that can't shoot, but a PF? Isn't that a little extreme?

And he can shoot a little and will most likely improve

[DeRoma]

you pay for impact. doesnt matter lin/green play different spots they would both eat the same amount of cap. you want Lin-type production for that 13 million range.

trevor booker at 13M would be really really bad. at 9 million its about were he should be which is good.

pace adjusted stats tell the same story. and the big risk with low volume guys is with more volume their efficiency/shooting% goes down proportionally.

Right now greent akes only great shots. if you feed him volume, less of hsi shots are great attempts and his % goes down as does his impact.

Green is a role player. and we dont know if he is a solid Lin type impact role guy or an acy/booker low impact type role guy. so you need to be careful with his salary.

it also says alot if the grizz arent willing to give him 13 million and are in need f young talent

Man the way you reason things out is literally based on pure statistics. Basketball is not some sort of Billy Beane moment. Where you can just pure stats. Basketball is not as linear as baseball . Where every situation can be equate. I'm definitely an advocate of mathematics but advance metrics is simply not there yet in basketball. Maybe in baseball or poker but not bball. I'll explain myself later gotta go to the gym.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Its not just statistics... but statistics are a big part of it. you go on the eyeball test and dont factor in value vs. cap% then you end up with a team of great guys who win 34 games and you spend well over the cap.

there is a reason most teams(especially the nets) spend tens of millions of dollars on advanced analytic data. because it helps you project a player and determine his impact on winning. of course fit, the eye test, effort all matter and matter a TON.

but you cant go out and just say "this guys is grea tand is a steal at 13 million! he is a great shooter and defender" a nd then ignore the facts which show while he shot great it was on super low volume, and he wanst actually a great defender.

if we sign him for 13M and all we get is a slightly better trevor booker its goint to be egg on our face.

Yeah I'm a huge advocate on statistics myself. But not the advance metrics the general public generally uses. They are just ratings for normal fans to show a general definition of what the general idea of what impact they do towards team's scheme. Not saying they aren't useful, because they are but only for a certain degree and has to be used correctly. For example, you consider Lin to be a good player for what he is worth. The reason why Lin is really good because he was given a great opportunity for him to have the space to perform on what he does best which is to break down the defense and finish. If you put Lin with players that doesn't mesh well with him do you honestly believe he can keep up a descent FG% all around? No way and i'd bet money on that. Then how would you rate Lin when his TS% diminish since he gets exposed that he can't shoot? Do you understand what I mean on how statistics can really be misleading?

You say that the fact that Green does not take that many shot tells you that he only takes high percentage looks. Then you made a statement that he only takes less than 2 shot behind the arc. But what you are forgetting is that Memphis runs the slowest pace in the game with one of the lowest offensive rating, lowest FGA% in the league. According to:
http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=PACE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15
So what that tells you is Memphis scheme does not run many system plays but runs a lot of offensive sets. They will tend to play half court. Meaning that Green's 50FG% is pretty impressive that he got those point in more impactful situations. System offense like our motion offense is actually much easier to see what the true value of the player is capable off because it's not about making decision, it's about rhythm scoring. Which is what is teachable in the NBA.

Let's direct this even more by watching both trevor and jamychal's good games.

Watch on YouTube

What you will notice is that Jamychal will always make a quick decisions once he is handed the ball. Meaning that he would fit right in to our offense and will most likely flourish given the volume of opportunities he will have in our offense. You also will notice he shoots the ball a lot more than Trevor and has much more different variety of moves. What this tells me is he is being held back on memphis offense which and shows that he doesn't completely fit their system. Which you can conclude the reason why they are not giving him more than 13 mill a game.

Watch on YouTube

Look at how much Booker lacks in comparison to Jamychal. Look at how unorthodox the way he scores the ball and how much lacks so much basketball skills.

Lets take a look at the shot charts to see if those shots were just lucky?
Jamychal:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/6552/jamychal-green/shotchart/

Trevor:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1172/trevor-booker/shotchart/

Even in the shot charts Jamychal shows how much more capable he is than Trevor. It shows that his shots were no fluke given the volume he took in comparison to Booker. In this conclusion, Jamychal shows that he is a lot more superior than what Trevor Booker does for us. So what if you give Jamychal a system offense with a lot more volume of shots? I would say he would flourish in our system given how much penetrator our team has and space that will be given to him. Do I think he is worth 13 mill most definitely. With the variety of ways he can score. There is no doubt he is already better than Booker. And with less experience in the NBA. So from the way I see it he has much more potential on what he can do if he is given a better system surrounding his skill set and mentality.

See this is how I believe Stats is suppose to be use rather than the general idea.

[Prokorov]

:lol:

Read on Twitter

oh man... too perfect. overpaid chucker on the knicks? you couldnt write a more perfect pairing

[Crunky]

i like option C:

-dont sign porter.
-add picks/young players via taking on salary dumps
-trade RHJ if you
-Continue forward with the core o Lin/Dlo/Levert/RHJ/Allen

dont tank. tanking never works and would completely destroy the culture we built. probably leads to marks and or kenny being let go or going elsewhere in a few years.

Lin is expendable with D'lo and Levert here, his age doesn't match the teams window. I doubt he get's a big offer on the open market because almost every team has a point guard or is developing one.

Lin is this teams leader. he is critical for the mentoring and development of young guys. he is worth keeping. especially since he probably doesnt bring back the value worth it in a trade

I guess it doesn't hurt to keep him at a discount and if he's willing to come off the bench if D'lo develops at the point.

[Prokorov]

J. Green offer will dictate what Rhj receives a year from now. There are going to be alot disappointed free agents when Cap Space disappears.

i dont think thats true... RHJ has an elite skill (defense) and green doesnt. RHJ was also a better prospect and will be 2 years younger when he is due a contract. 27 vs. 25.

in rondaes second year he is already better then green in his 5th

[Prokorov]

Nah, RHJ won't get 17 millions extension. No way.

he will get 15-20 million barring serious injury.

it might not be an extension, it might be an RFA offer sheet. but he is a lock to get that. people focus to much on shooting and forget the preimium the leauge puts on elite wing/forward defenders

[Paradise]

Man the way you reason things out is literally based on pure statistics. Basketball is not some sort of Billy Beane moment. Where you can just pure stats. Basketball is not as linear as baseball . Where every situation can be equate. I'm definitely an advocate of mathematics but advance metrics is simply not there yet in basketball. Maybe in baseball or poker but not bball. I'll explain myself later gotta go to the gym.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Its not just statistics... but statistics are a big part of it. you go on the eyeball test and dont factor in value vs. cap% then you end up with a team of great guys who win 34 games and you spend well over the cap.

there is a reason most teams(especially the nets) spend tens of millions of dollars on advanced analytic data. because it helps you project a player and determine his impact on winning. of course fit, the eye test, effort all matter and matter a TON.

but you cant go out and just say "this guys is grea tand is a steal at 13 million! he is a great shooter and defender" a nd then ignore the facts which show while he shot great it was on super low volume, and he wanst actually a great defender.

if we sign him for 13M and all we get is a slightly better trevor booker its goint to be egg on our face.

Yeah I'm a huge advocate on statistics myself. But not the advance metrics the general public generally uses. They are just ratings for normal fans to show a general definition of what the general idea of what impact they do towards team's scheme. Not saying they aren't useful, because they are but only for a certain degree and has to be used correctly. For example, you consider Lin to be a good player for what he is worth. The reason why Lin is really good because he was given a great opportunity for him to have the space to perform on what he does best which is to break down the defense and finish. If you put Lin with players that doesn't mesh well with him do you honestly believe he can keep up a descent FG% all around? No way and i'd bet money on that. Then how would you rate Lin when his TS% diminish since he gets exposed that he can't shoot? Do you understand what I mean on how statistics can really be misleading?

You say that the fact that Green does not take that many shot tells you that he only takes high percentage looks. Then you made a statement that he only takes less than 2 shot behind the arc. But what you are forgetting is that Memphis runs the slowest pace in the game with one of the lowest offensive rating, lowest FGA% in the league. According to:
http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/#!?sort=PACE&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15
So what that tells you is Memphis scheme does not run many system plays but runs a lot of offensive sets. They will tend to play half court. Meaning that Green's 50FG% is pretty impressive that he got those point in more impactful situations. System offense like our motion offense is actually much easier to see what the true value of the player is capable off because it's not about making decision, it's about rhythm scoring. Which is what is teachable in the NBA.

Let's direct this even more by watching both trevor and jamychal's good games.

Watch on YouTube

What you will notice is that Jamychal will always make a quick decisions once he is handed the ball. Meaning that he would fit right in to our offense and will most likely flourish given the volume of opportunities he will have in our offense. You also will notice he shoots the ball a lot more than Trevor and has much more different variety of moves. What this tells me is he is being held back on memphis offense which and shows that he doesn't completely fit their system. Which you can conclude the reason why they are not giving him more than 13 mill a game.

Watch on YouTube

Look at how much Booker lacks in comparison to Jamychal. Look at how unorthodox the way he scores the ball and how much lacks so much basketball skills.

Lets take a look at the shot charts to see if those shots were just lucky?
Jamychal:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/6552/jamychal-green/shotchart/

Trevor:
http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/player/1172/trevor-booker/shotchart/

Even in the shot charts Jamychal shows how much more capable he is than Trevor. It shows that his shots were no fluke given the volume he took in comparison to Booker. In this conclusion, Jamychal shows that he is a lot more superior than what Trevor Booker does for us. So what if you give Jamychal a system offense with a lot more volume of shots? I would say he would flourish in our system given how much penetrator our team has and space that will be given to him. Do I think he is worth 13 mill most definitely. With the variety of ways he can score. There is no doubt he is already better than Booker. And with less experience in the NBA. So from the way I see it he has much more potential on what he can do if he is given a better system surrounding his skill set and mentality.

See this is how I believe Stats is suppose to be use rather than the general idea.

Agreed. He's capable of sliding down to the five alongside Booker or Acy as well.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app