Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[Proven_Winner]

Why does the trade seem less horrible because Patton is injured? What am I missing here?

If we kept the 16 pick, we don't know whether he would have been the Bulls selection.

Probably because we know the FO wanted him. Before the draft even started Patton was always linked with us. So we don't know if they would've drafted Patton but it was a high chance it could've happened.

[Red8911]

I know its sound silly but the trade looks less horrible now.

Lauri is going to fall down a flight of stairs this summer, booked.

Or fall over his bags ala Carlos Boozer

Or cut his hand with a knife while eating an apple

[Paxson43]

Thibs just said that this trade would not have happened unless #16 was included in the deal.

So, Justin Patton was the cherry on top? Fine by me.

[bad knees]

Thibs just said that this trade would not have happened unless #16 was included in the deal.

So, Justin Patton was the cherry on top? Fine by me.

Actually, what he said is that they "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. About as wishy washy and meaningless a statement a GM could make in that context.


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[Paxson43]

Thibs just said that this trade would not have happened unless #16 was included in the deal.

So, Justin Patton was the cherry on top? Fine by me.

Actually, what he said is that they "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. About as wishy washy and meaningless as a GM could be in that context.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Believe what you want, man. I take men/women at their word... unless they are a politician

[BeatDaCavs420]

That's what Thibs gets for being greedy lol

Sucks for Patton though....Best of recovery too him

[bad knees]

Thibs just said that this trade would not have happened unless #16 was included in the deal.

So, Justin Patton was the cherry on top? Fine by me.

Actually, what he said is that they "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. About as wishy washy and meaningless as a GM could be in that context.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Believe what you want, man. I take men/women at their word... unless they are a politician

Taking Thibs at his "word," he "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. Probably is not definitely, you know. But I agree, everyone should believe what they want. It's a free country, at least so far.

[MrSparkle]

Actually, what he said is that they "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. About as wishy washy and meaningless as a GM could be in that context.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Believe what you want, man. I take men/women at their word... unless they are a politician

Taking Thibs at his "word," he "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. Probably is not definitely, you know. But I agree, everyone should believe what they want. It's a free country, at least so far.

I mean, I'm talking with no credibility here, but is Dunn last year's #5 pick really less valuable than #16? My common sense tells me that it was the "price" to take Dunn.

The only other thing I can imagine is both teams wanted the flexibility to trade next year's 1st pick, which you can't do back-to-back (loop-holed by swapping). It might've been important to Thibs to offer the '18 pick in trade negotiations, as he puts the final touches on his roster before becoming a contender.

[Stratmaster]

Read on Twitter

I found this to be interesting. While Scottie seems to have some position with the Bulls, I have a hard time envisioning him just straight up lying.

The problem with the Bulls is that they have a habit of leaking negative stories about ex-players, staff or coaches to the media. This isn't the first time they've done, and it likely won't be the last. It's the type of sh** that would happen decades ago in the old school era when people would read the news on newspaper, but it's a total different media game now and dirty stories can explode like wild fire, and eventually the bullsh*tter gets caught out, in this case Gar and Paxson.

The thing is, Jimmy could very well have had leadership issues, every single player or human being has bloody faults. But this on cue negativity press once a former Bulls employee leaves the franchise is getting old.

Pip did just about as good a job on Jimmy as Jimmy did on Hoiberg. Listen to the BS podcast with Jimmy. Jimmy spends 5 minutes trashing the coach and FO wihtout ever naming any of them lol.

I am trying to figure out who Rachel was referring to when they say other teammates loved Butler. There is Wade...and there is...???

I agree though that Pip should have kept his mouth shut. He was pretty blunt. I don't think anyone sent him out to leak anything. He said playing for Thibs will be good for Jimmy in helping take him to the next level and as Rachel kept trying to pin him down, he got backed into a corner. He should have just said "Thibs can help make Jimmy an even better player and leader" and stopped there.

[Paxson43]

Actually, what he said is that they "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. About as wishy washy and meaningless as a GM could be in that context.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Believe what you want, man. I take men/women at their word... unless they are a politician

Taking Thibs at his "word," he "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. Probably is not definitely, you know. But I agree, everyone should believe what they want. It's a free country, at least so far.

Just in following the near trade last year, the trade this year, and getting an up-and-coming star in LaVine, a top 5 draft pick the year before in Dunn, and the #7 overall pick... I don't think throwing in Justin Patton is anything to be upset about (in my world).

I'm sure Thibs wanted that pick to soften giving up some young talent, and I'm sure the Bulls weren't going to let it be the holdup to starting their rebuild.

[RedBulls23]

Read on Twitter

I found this to be interesting. While Scottie seems to have some position with the Bulls, I have a hard time envisioning him just straight up lying.

The problem with the Bulls is that they have a habit of leaking negative stories about ex-players, staff or coaches to the media. This isn't the first time they've done, and it likely won't be the last. It's the type of sh** that would happen decades ago in the old school era when people would read the news on newspaper, but it's a total different media game now and dirty stories can explode like wild fire, and eventually the bullsh*tter gets caught out, in this case Gar and Paxson.

The thing is, Jimmy could very well have had leadership issues, every single player or human being has bloody faults. But this on cue negativity press once a former Bulls employee leaves the franchise is getting old.

Pip did just about as good a job on Jimmy as Jimmy did on Hoiberg. Listen to the BS podcast with Jimmy. Jimmy spends 5 minutes trashing the coach and FO wihtout ever naming any of them lol.

I am trying to figure out who Rachel was referring to when they say other teammates loved Butler. There is Wade...and there is...???

I agree though that Pip should have kept his mouth shut. He was pretty blunt. I don't think anyone sent him out to leak anything. He said playing for Thibs will be good for Jimmy in helping take him to the next level and as Rachel kept trying to pin him down, he got backed into a corner. He should have just said "Thibs can help make Jimmy an even better player and leader" and stopped there.

We'll Niko certainly didn't have any issues with Jimmy. Recent quotes sure suggest that he didn't (quoted in the Niko thread). Also, clearly Rachel Nichols actually talks to players that have told her exactly that.

I guess you're going to have to find something that says that Butler wasn't liked in the locker room overall for anyone to believe your stance.

[Paxson43]

What did Butler say in "bashing the coach and FO" without naming them?

[Stratmaster]

The problem with the Bulls is that they have a habit of leaking negative stories about ex-players, staff or coaches to the media. This isn't the first time they've done, and it likely won't be the last. It's the type of sh** that would happen decades ago in the old school era when people would read the news on newspaper, but it's a total different media game now and dirty stories can explode like wild fire, and eventually the bullsh*tter gets caught out, in this case Gar and Paxson.

The thing is, Jimmy could very well have had leadership issues, every single player or human being has bloody faults. But this on cue negativity press once a former Bulls employee leaves the franchise is getting old.

Pip did just about as good a job on Jimmy as Jimmy did on Hoiberg. Listen to the BS podcast with Jimmy. Jimmy spends 5 minutes trashing the coach and FO wihtout ever naming any of them lol.

I am trying to figure out who Rachel was referring to when they say other teammates loved Butler. There is Wade...and there is...???

I agree though that Pip should have kept his mouth shut. He was pretty blunt. I don't think anyone sent him out to leak anything. He said playing for Thibs will be good for Jimmy in helping take him to the next level and as Rachel kept trying to pin him down, he got backed into a corner. He should have just said "Thibs can help make Jimmy an even better player and leader" and stopped there.

We'll Niko certainly didn't have any issues with Jimmy. Recent quotes sure suggest that he didn't (quoted in the Niko thread). Also, clearly Rachel Nichols actually talks to players that have told her exactly that.

I guess you're going to have to find something that says that Butler wasn't liked in the locker room overall for anyone to believe your stance.

I'm going to have to find what? It's been reported, by multiple sources, over multiple seasons, that Jimmy shuns other players, is a bad locker room influence and has grown a larger than life head. Players have said it, coaches have said it. He blatantly threw his head coach of all of a couple months under the bus...multiple times. He refused to play the schemes the coach asked him to.

Of course Rachel loves him. He is Hollywood like her. I guess you are going to have to listen to a lot more Rachel Nichols for anyone, including yourself, to believe your stance. I don't mean to be disrespectful; certainly not as much as you were to me, but you really should consider that maybe you have blinders on when it comes to Jimmy.

[Stratmaster]

What did Butler say in "bashing the coach and FO" without naming them?

It's the most passive aggressive thing you have ever heard; at least to me it was. Give the first 5 minutes or so a listen. He kept saying it wasn't his job description...but he gave his opinions and they were heard...or maybe they weren't heard...and he doesn;t control the rotations or the players minutes..etc.

[RedBulls23]

Pip did just about as good a job on Jimmy as Jimmy did on Hoiberg. Listen to the BS podcast with Jimmy. Jimmy spends 5 minutes trashing the coach and FO wihtout ever naming any of them lol.

I am trying to figure out who Rachel was referring to when they say other teammates loved Butler. There is Wade...and there is...???

I agree though that Pip should have kept his mouth shut. He was pretty blunt. I don't think anyone sent him out to leak anything. He said playing for Thibs will be good for Jimmy in helping take him to the next level and as Rachel kept trying to pin him down, he got backed into a corner. He should have just said "Thibs can help make Jimmy an even better player and leader" and stopped there.

We'll Niko certainly didn't have any issues with Jimmy. Recent quotes sure suggest that he didn't (quoted in the Niko thread). Also, clearly Rachel Nichols actually talks to players that have told her exactly that.

I guess you're going to have to find something that says that Butler wasn't liked in the locker room overall for anyone to believe your stance.

I'm going to have to find what? It's been reported, by multiple sources, over multiple seasons, that Jimmy shuns other players, is a bad locker room influence and has grown a larger than life head. Players have said it, coaches have said it. He blatantly threw his head coach of all of a couple months under the bus...multiple times. He refused to play the schemes the coach asked him to.

Of course Rachel loves him. He is Hollywood like her. I guess you are going to have to listen to a lot more Rachel Nichols for anyone, including yourself, to believe your stance. I don't mean to be disrespectful; certainly not as much as you were to me, but you really should consider that maybe you have blinders on when it comes to Jimmy.

When the heck was I disrespectful to you? As per usual, there you go getting overly sensitive and defensive.

Lastly, no it's not been reported multiple times that people didn't like Jimmy in the locker room. Rachel Nichols doesn't have an incentive to make stories up avout. They aren't friends.

Lastly, if anyone has blinders on it's you who thinks anytime someone posts a counter point to your posts about Jimmy, you get angry and defensive.

[Stratmaster]

We'll Niko certainly didn't have any issues with Jimmy. Recent quotes sure suggest that he didn't (quoted in the Niko thread). Also, clearly Rachel Nichols actually talks to players that have told her exactly that.

I guess you're going to have to find something that says that Butler wasn't liked in the locker room overall for anyone to believe your stance.

I'm going to have to find what? It's been reported, by multiple sources, over multiple seasons, that Jimmy shuns other players, is a bad locker room influence and has grown a larger than life head. Players have said it, coaches have said it. He blatantly threw his head coach of all of a couple months under the bus...multiple times. He refused to play the schemes the coach asked him to.

Of course Rachel loves him. He is Hollywood like her. I guess you are going to have to listen to a lot more Rachel Nichols for anyone, including yourself, to believe your stance. I don't mean to be disrespectful; certainly not as much as you were to me, but you really should consider that maybe you have blinders on when it comes to Jimmy.

When the heck was I disrespectful to you? As per usual, there you go getting overly sensitive and defensive.

Lastly, no it's not been reported multiple times that people hated Jimmy in the locker room.

You did it again. see, if I said "I guess you're going to have to find something that says that Butler wasn't liked in the locker room overall for anyone to believe your stance." or "As per usual, there you go getting overly sensitive and defensive" i would get scolded.

It's OK. I just anted to be clear I'm not trying to get personal with you, like you do with me. I'm not sensitive or defensive; just trying to be a good citizen.

[bad knees]

Believe what you want, man. I take men/women at their word... unless they are a politician

Taking Thibs at his "word," he "probably" wouldn't have done the deal if 16 had not been included. Probably is not definitely, you know. But I agree, everyone should believe what they want. It's a free country, at least so far.

I mean, I'm talking with no credibility here, but is Dunn last year's #5 pick really less valuable than #16? My common sense tells me that it was the "price" to take Dunn.

The only other thing I can imagine is both teams wanted the flexibility to trade next year's 1st pick, which you can't do back-to-back (loop-holed by swapping). It might've been important to Thibs to offer the '18 pick in trade negotiations, as he puts the final touches on his roster before becoming a contender.

You may have missed it, RedLarrivee and I had an extensive debate about the Bulls' trade strategy over in the PG/Payne thread. I took the position that the Bulls should not have sought to include Dunn at the outset, and should have sought Lavine and 7 (and possibly a future pick) from the beginning, with an eye toward taking DSJ at 7 and keeping 16. Paxson43 and RedL were arguing that this was not possible, in part because Thibs had demanded that 16 be included in any deal that involved Lavine. One of the many issues was what Thibs had actually said about wanting 16, and the relevance of that given that he was talking about the deal that involved Lavine, Dunn and 7 (not Lavine and 7 that I had been advocating). This part of the debate relating to 16 then migrated over here.

On to other things.

[waffle]

we could have gotten the deal done w/o the 16 I am convinced.

Apparently we had a deal all but done w/ Cleveland? And now Bron is mad because it didn't happen? Hum

[RedBulls23]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-cavs-nearly-acquired-jimmy-butler-on-same-day-griffin-cleveland-parted-ways/

Says we almost had a deal done with the Cavs before David Griffin was fired. Wonder what the deal was.

[the ultimates]

I'm bumping this thread. It seems after a four game win streak a trade that many people hated has somehow become too good and threatens the tank. A lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouth when looking at this thread then the game thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1647824#start_here. Hell in this thread you'll probably find my overreaction to it and I'll be glad to admit I was way off.