2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[ChokeFasncists]

so absolute radio silence on Otto Porter meeting with the Nets... no leaks on the Brooklyn ship!
But shouldn't we have heard how it went and if the Nets made an offer at least??

Spurs fans call Pop CIAPop. I guess Marks is the same way!

[ChokeFasncists]

What's good for Lin isn't going to be good for the future because Lin won't be in this teams future just like how you won't be commenting on this board when he's traded or leaves.

That's not necessarily the case even tho it's your belief. As I was saying, it's not uncommon to have an older PG with a younger roster. Who knows? Maybe he'll retire in a decade as a Net and I'll post for many decades here?

LeVert is fine at small forward but he's best at SG.

Not necessarily so. Guys like Iggy and Kawaii are listed at 6'6 and 6'7 and play SF fine. LBJ is only 6'8.

And you pointing out Harris flaws further proves my point that LeVert was the only person on the roster capable of playing sf.

Just cuz JHar is flawed doesn't mean he's not capable. Pretty much the entire roster was deeply flawed last season. Acy played SF before and Kenny didn't play him much there. There's KJ as well. Booker can play a bit there. RHJ of course.

Also your idea that Harris is too slow for SG is just false as he is listed as a shooting guard

Just cuz he's listed there doesn't mean he really is one, at least not according to Kenny's actions.

and whenever he played next to LeVert he was guarding SG.

Um....that could be cuz Kenny wants LVJ to play SF?

He was also trash last year, extremely one dimensional and constantly chucking up contested ill advised 3s.

That's not wrong, on a normal roster. With arguably the most important player down and a 20 games losing streak running, it was a different story. It could be that Kenny wanted them to keep shooting? Both for fluidity's sake and development? He wasn't really extremely one dimensional anyways, he had some pleasantly surprising moments with defense, passing, slashing and hustle. I remember Prok the poster was praising his D.

Randy foye started cause he at least could handle the ball and not have tunnel vision every time he caught it.

That's possible, but it could also be that cuz Kenny wanted LVJ to play SF.

Small ball is in but you clearly don't understand what that means. Teams are looking for big 6'8 and 6'9 guys to play at the 3 and 4 instead of 7 footers at the 4 it has nothing to do with having an undersized small forward.

When were most of the 4s in the league 7 footers? That has never been the case.

I think the originator of small lineup is MDA:

Nash-Bell-Richardson(6'6)-Marion(6'7)-Amare

We're talkin' 'bout a 6'7 PF here. LVJ's fine, again, he's not really undersized at the 3.

Prok addressed the PG offense comment the only thing funny about it is how your blind love for Lin effects your rational judgement. And it's incredibly clear that your arguments are based on your Linsecurities about his minutes and shots as opposed to the team doing well.

Already responded. Again, ad hominem is no-no.

In what world is Lin a pass first pg

It's pretty understandable that you have this query cuz there are two camps that constantly debate about this. I am squarely in the pass first camp, as is his shooting coach who had been working with him for a long time, I think he said it best:

“Jeremy, on the other hand, has never had a shooter’s mindset. That’s something very hard to develop. He’s a pass-first point guard. He’s more interested in setting up his teammates in a position where they can score.

“Another big difference between (a certain PG) and Jeremy is Jeremy makes sure he gives players easy shots. He creates those shots in penetration. (a certain PG) doesn’t work at doing that. If a guy is open, (a certain PG) will throw it to them. But he doesn’t work to get them open. Lin knows if he draws a double team somebody has to be open and he has the vision to find them. A great point guard gives other people advantages when they shoot. Steve Nash was like that. He made everybody around him better.”

http://hoopshabit.com/2016/02/15/doc-scheppler-interview-talking-jeremy-lin-kemba-walker-and-more/

Anyway Lin isn't in this teams future he's just gonna be a journey man for the future like his entire career unless Kenny decides to keep him around as a veteran 6th man once we get a real sf. But hopefully he trades him next season so that we can get a valuable piece for the future and all you Lin fans can take your agendas to another board.

Maybe, maybe not. Markinson might disappoint you tho, sorry.

Ok im gonna make my points on why LeVert is a SG abundantly clear. I understand that it threatens Jeremy Lins spot but that's what happens when youre an average veteran on a team with young guards with great potential.

"Is" as in absolute? Na, players change positions, many can play multiple positions.

1. Kenny is quoted saying LeVert is a "guard" and that he hopes he could "move down a position and play some 1"

Sure, doesn't mean that will happen and it doesn't mean it couldn't change when the circumstances dictate so.

2. Marks is quoted saying "I think we know the 3 position for us is certainly one that needs to addressed" and you know he wasn't endorsing Foye as the 2 of the future.

Ya, but he went after Redick, an SG, first in the FA and explicitly said that he wanted DarLin' to be the starting backcourt. Now Porter is on, but if he's matched, the 6'5 KCP could be next. Reality.

3. No wing player on the Nets was taller than LeVert or capable of guarding players at sf which is the ONLY reason he played SF last season

That's merely your interpretation, which I've already debunked as non-absolute.

4. LeVert is much to skinny and his shoulders are too small to guard small forward full time he was constantly pushed around last year by bigger forwards despite his overall great defensive IQ.

The rook was a bit too skinny but he could surely hit the gym and get some muscle. I don't remember him being "constantly pushed around last year by bigger forwards" (small forwards I assume)? I remember him guarding LBJ fine. LBJ is more of a four nowadays anyways. So if he is OK with that as a rook who missed the first half of the year, he'll surely be fine down the road.

And when he was forced to guard PFs as the secondary defender of that position, it was horrible because they had such a size advantage over him.

It might be a bit horrible but OTOH, it would be a big plus if he is switched onto a smaller player. It would also be horrible for the bigger player to try to guard him on the other end.

All of these quotes show that they see LeVert as a combo guard with defensive versatility and would like to acquire a real SF although in the short term playing him at the 3 is fine.

Perhaps. But doesn't mean it will happen or it couldn't change.

Like I said I would be fine with Jeremy on this team (and the Lin fans I guess )but his ultimate role is going to be 6th man. When Russell and LeVert are without a doubt better than him, which isn't far away and could even happen next season and when they get a real SF Lin will be relegated to the bench which is fine. There's enough passing and creating capability between those two guards to overcome Lins so called pass first benefits.

Even tho you might be superstitious in your belief towards statements made by politicians, executives, teachers or coaches, or your own wish/hate, the reality is that minds could change, what they say don't necessarily become reality and reality dictates the outcome a lot of times rather than what one wants.

[Antti22]

I truly hate Olynyk and I think he looks like a tranny, but weirdly I think his game would fit quite perfectly to our team and he could help, if he is had on a decent contract.

[brook]

I hate Olynyk too, but a three-year, 30 million deal, will be interesting for us.

Just I don't understand why Olynyk would be an above average defender and two-way guy, and Jamychal Green not

Said this, I think Grizzlies will retain Green after they lose Zibo and the competition for Olynyk will be strong because he is UFA now.

I really hope we get Porter but I doubt it, if we can't get Otto, then I hope we don't made any offer to KCP and maybe try to get Mirotic.

If we can't get Mirotic as well, we should look any salary dumps. Aldrich would be useful for us at backup center while we wait Jarrett Allen, he has a team option next year (it means he is an expired contract). Aldrich + OKC first x Kilpatrick.

Don't sure about a massive contract like Crabbe, but the pick Blazers must gave to dump him maybe will be in lottery.

Said this, I really have faith in Markinson!

[Antti22]

I hate Olynyk too, but a three-year, 30 million deal, will be interesting for us.

Just I don't understand why Olynyk would be an above average defender and two-way guy, and Jamychal Green not

Said this, I think Grizzlies will retain Green after they lose Zibo and the competition for Olynyk will be strong because he is UFA now.

I believe this not to be true, because for RFA the biggest competition always is the previous team that hold the right to match and go over the cap to do it. UFA doesnt have that possibility and he can only be offered contracts by the teams that have cap space. There are not many teams with cap space left to be competing against us...

UFA usually can be had cheaper than RFA. Maybe we could lure him here for like you said three years, 30 mill, or maybe 2 years 30 mill with second year player option.

[Keith Van Horn]

does anyone think plan B might not be to max KCP, but to give 2 smaller deals to other players? Hardaway Jr comes to mind. Might be more fruitful to pursue him than Pope. and did Levert play with him at Michigan his freshman year?

[Prokorov]

does anyone think plan B might not be to max KCP, but to give 2 smaller deals to other players? Hardaway Jr comes to mind. Might be more fruitful to pursue him than Pope. and did Levert play with him at Michigan his freshman year?

it is possible but i doubt it. everything seemed to indicate they were going to max porter and KCP.

as much as i hate a max to KCP, i like it better then a 10-14M deal for THJ. They did play together at michigan.

say THJ is 14M. who are you using the other 12M on? are those 2 guys combined better then KCP?

id rather have the better talent for that 26M even if its overpaid then to lesser guys on better deals.

but im really in on MDB's plan of just passing on all non-minimum guys, rolling with what we have unless a salary dump comes out way.

Like for 15 million id rather have Carroll + a pick or young assett then THJ

[MrDollarBills]

I would not hitch any wagons to Hardaway Jr.

[Prokorov]

Which of these options do you guys like best?

KCP - max deal/26M + Olynk (10-12M) -- would require waiving 2 of Acy/Kilpatrick/goodwin/harris

THJ (12-14M) +one of Mirotic/Muscala/Ilyasova/Green/Olynk (10+M)

Demarre Carroll (16M) + a first round pick and/or one of OG/Saikim/Noigera/Cabocolo

Faried (13M) + Aurthur(8M) in a dump to get Will Barton (4M)

Some other combination of these.

We have 31.8M in cap room

[vincecarter4pres]

does anyone think plan B might not be to max KCP, but to give 2 smaller deals to other players? Hardaway Jr comes to mind. Might be more fruitful to pursue him than Pope. and did Levert play with him at Michigan his freshman year?

it is possible but i doubt it. everything seemed to indicate they were going to max porter and KCP.

as much as i hate a max to KCP, i like it better then a 10-14M deal for THJ. They did play together at michigan.

say THJ is 14M. who are you using the other 12M on? are those 2 guys combined better then KCP?

id rather have the better talent for that 26M even if its overpaid then to lesser guys on better deals.

but im really in on MDB's plan of just passing on all non-minimum guys, rolling with what we have unless a salary dump comes out way.

Like for 15 million id rather have Carroll + a pick or young assett then THJ

I prefer the salary dump to the remaining FA's as well, but prefer THJ to KCP.

He'll be easier to move if necessary and when Booker/Hamilton/Lin come off the cap next summer, keeps more space open.

[MrDollarBills]

Which of these options do you guys like best?

KCP - max deal/26M + Olynk (10-12M) -- would require waiving 2 of Acy/Kilpatrick/goodwin/harris

THJ (12-14M) +one of Mirotic/Muscala/Ilyasova/Green/Olynk (10+M)

Demarre Carroll (16M) + a first round pick and/or one of OG/Saikim/Noigera/Cabocolo

Faried (13M) + Aurthur(8M) in a dump to get Will Barton (4M)

not sure...competitive wise I like KCP/Olynk and i'd dump kilpatrick and harris.

[Prokorov]

does anyone think plan B might not be to max KCP, but to give 2 smaller deals to other players? Hardaway Jr comes to mind. Might be more fruitful to pursue him than Pope. and did Levert play with him at Michigan his freshman year?

it is possible but i doubt it. everything seemed to indicate they were going to max porter and KCP.

as much as i hate a max to KCP, i like it better then a 10-14M deal for THJ. They did play together at michigan.

say THJ is 14M. who are you using the other 12M on? are those 2 guys combined better then KCP?

id rather have the better talent for that 26M even if its overpaid then to lesser guys on better deals.

but im really in on MDB's plan of just passing on all non-minimum guys, rolling with what we have unless a salary dump comes out way.

Like for 15 million id rather have Carroll + a pick or young assett then THJ

I prefer the salary dump to the remaining FA's as well, but prefer THJ to KCP.

He'll be easier to move if necessary and when Booker/Hamilton/Lin come off the cap next summer, keeps more space open.

I'm always "out" on someone when you have to add the caveat "he is cheaper/easier to move" down the line. for me if thats even a consideration its probably a good sign you shouldnt sign the guy.

To me with health its a lock levert is better then THJ to the point where he becomes an expensive 6th or 7th man. id rather pay kilpatrick peanuts to be in that role even if he is worse at it.

[treiz]

Which of these options do you guys like best?

KCP - max deal/26M + Olynk (10-12M) -- would require waiving 2 of Acy/Kilpatrick/goodwin/harris

THJ (12-14M) +one of Mirotic/Muscala/Ilyasova/Green/Olynk (10+M)

Demarre Carroll (16M) + a first round pick and/or one of OG/Saikim/Noigera/Cabocolo

Faried (13M) + Aurthur(8M) in a dump to get Will Barton (4M)

Some other combination of these.

We have 31.8M in cap room

Definitely the salary dumps. Would rather avoid the RFAs completely.

[NetSymptom]

Which of these options do you guys like best?

KCP - max deal/26M + Olynk (10-12M) -- would require waiving 2 of Acy/Kilpatrick/goodwin/harris

THJ (12-14M) +one of Mirotic/Muscala/Ilyasova/Green/Olynk (10+M)

Demarre Carroll (16M) + a first round pick and/or one of OG/Saikim/Noigera/Cabocolo

Faried (13M) + Aurthur(8M) in a dump to get Will Barton (4M)

Some other combination of these.

We have 31.8M in cap room

I'd rather the 1st, or OG since he'd basically be like a 1st for 2018 if he can't play this year

[Prokorov]

Which of these options do you guys like best?

KCP - max deal/26M + Olynk (10-12M) -- would require waiving 2 of Acy/Kilpatrick/goodwin/harris

THJ (12-14M) +one of Mirotic/Muscala/Ilyasova/Green/Olynk (10+M)

Demarre Carroll (16M) + a first round pick and/or one of OG/Saikim/Noigera/Cabocolo

Faried (13M) + Aurthur(8M) in a dump to get Will Barton (4M)

not sure...competitive wise I like KCP/Olynk and i'd dump kilpatrick and harris.

yeah talent wise that would be the best... i prefer a caroll salary dump. i dont know about will barton. i dont really watch much of denver. he has solid stats and is 26. but the carroll deal gets us a younger assett and eats less cap.

i just dont want to see us fill our cap with a quarter, 2 dimes, and a nickel.

[NetSymptom]

I'd hate to miss out on a future salary dump that nets us a 1st or a prospect just to max out KCP or anyone else below him. I know a prospect like Russell coming along in a dump is unlikely to happen again, but with all these teams overpaying we are bound to get a decent asset coming our way by staying patient.

[brook]

Which of these options do you guys like best?

KCP - max deal/26M + Olynk (10-12M) -- would require waiving 2 of Acy/Kilpatrick/goodwin/harris

THJ (12-14M) +one of Mirotic/Muscala/Ilyasova/Green/Olynk (10+M)

Demarre Carroll (16M) + a first round pick and/or one of OG/Saikim/Noigera/Cabocolo

Faried (13M) + Aurthur(8M) in a dump to get Will Barton (4M)

Some other combination of these.

We have 31.8M in cap room

One of these guys: Mirotic, Green, Olynyk and Aldrich dump plus Okc 2018 pick.

I hate Kcp at max money or 20 millions and hate more Hardaway at whatever money.

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[vincecarter4pres]

If Porter is matched as presumed, take on a small salary dump for a 1st and max out Cousins or Norman Powell next summer.

[Antti22]

If Porter gets matched I hope we deal with Raptors and take on Carroll + OG or picks. I think Carroll could thrive in this system again and be useful for us. He sure as hell wont be useful for Toronto.

[Prokorov]

Potential Sign and Trade option:

Nets in: otto porter (26M) Ian Mahinmi (15M)

Nets out: RHJ, Booker(expiring 9M), Hamilton (expiring 3M)

I think thats a deal the wizards would sign on for. with booker/hamilton expiring thats 15M off next years cap for them and they add RHJ still on this rookie deal.

not saying id do this... but i think this is what a sign and trade would probably look like if marks doesnt want them to match