Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[BeesWax]

If Crowder and Smart are available we need to make a move now. We don't have to give up a ton to get them and they fit what we want to do perfectly. Lamb, JOB, Weber and a protected 1st should be close to what anyone else would offer. If we got those two on the team we would look nice going into next season.

Are you talking about both? They really only need to move one. My guess is they move Crowder or Bradley (in anticipation of his $20M+ he's going to make on his next contract) for a future 1st, a decent player making about half of what they make, and unguaranteed contracts/cap space.

Maybe if they want Frank to replace Olynyk who is now an UFA, we could offer them Frank and two of our unguaranteed contracts (JOB and Weber) for Crowder. I know I would do that trade. Crowder is a steal of a contract and has three more cheap years.

I know they only need to move one but I saw somewhere last night that said they were looking at moving both. I think the wing depth is something they are looking to thin out. Smart is moving toward getting a deal and Crowder is just extra with Hayward, Brown and Tatum.

I would trade Weber, JOB and Frank for Crowder or all three of our unguaranteed contracts plus a well protected first for him.

[Braggins]

How good of a pick would you add to a package of Weber + Graham + Job to get Crowder?

Kemba/MCW
Batum/Lamb/Monk
MKG/Crowder/Bacon
Marv/Frank
Dwight/Cody

[cl2117]

If Crowder and Smart are available we need to make a move now. We don't have to give up a ton to get them and they fit what we want to do perfectly. Lamb, JOB, Weber and a protected 1st should be close to what anyone else would offer. If we got those two on the team we would look nice going into next season.

Are you talking about both? They really only need to move one. My guess is they move Crowder or Bradley (in anticipation of his $20M+ he's going to make on his next contract) for a future 1st, a decent player making about half of what they make, and unguaranteed contracts/cap space.

Maybe if they want Frank to replace Olynyk who is now an UFA, we could offer them Frank and two of our unguaranteed contracts (JOB and Weber) for Crowder. I know I would do that trade. Crowder is a steal of a contract and has three more cheap years.

I know they only need to move one but I saw somewhere last night that said they were looking at moving both. I think the wing depth is something they are looking to thin out. Smart is moving toward getting a deal and Crowder is just extra with Hayward, Brown and Tatum.

I would trade Weber, JOB and Frank for Crowder or all three of our unguaranteed contracts plus a well protected first for him.

I saw the idea of Frank plus the non-guaranteed contracts with a protected pick swap for Crowder and think it could work for both sides.

Make the swap top 10 or lottery protected so basically if CHA ends up in the playoff hunt.

It's hard to make the salaries work without Frank unless you turn it into a 3 team deal and move out Lamb (or so is my understanding). Just the ugtd. guys doesn't work.

[BeesWax]

Are you talking about both? They really only need to move one. My guess is they move Crowder or Bradley (in anticipation of his $20M+ he's going to make on his next contract) for a future 1st, a decent player making about half of what they make, and unguaranteed contracts/cap space.

Maybe if they want Frank to replace Olynyk who is now an UFA, we could offer them Frank and two of our unguaranteed contracts (JOB and Weber) for Crowder. I know I would do that trade. Crowder is a steal of a contract and has three more cheap years.

I know they only need to move one but I saw somewhere last night that said they were looking at moving both. I think the wing depth is something they are looking to thin out. Smart is moving toward getting a deal and Crowder is just extra with Hayward, Brown and Tatum.

I would trade Weber, JOB and Frank for Crowder or all three of our unguaranteed contracts plus a well protected first for him.

I saw the idea of Frank plus the non-guaranteed contracts with a protected pick swap for Crowder and think it could work for both sides.

Make the swap top 10 or lottery protected so basically if CHA ends up in the playoff hunt.

It's hard to make the salaries work without Frank unless you turn it into a 3 team deal and move out Lamb (or so is my understanding). Just the ugtd. guys doesn't work.

Frank, Weber and JOB works salary wise. Also clears you plenty of cap room.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Frank vs Crowder

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jae+Crowder&player_id1_select=Jae+Crowder&y1=2017&player_id1=crowdja01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Frank+Kaminsky&player_id2_select=Frank+Kaminsky&y2=2017&player_id2=kaminfr01&idx=players

I have no idea what to think of that proposed trade. I suspect that it helps Boston a lot more than it helps the Hornets. Not only does it create cap room for them, but last year's Frank and Jae weren't that different in a lot of key stats. I do think that Jae would fit the starting lineup as SF better than MKG, but I also suspect that Frank is going to be the better player in 2-3 years ... heck he might be the better player next year if he makes a 3rd year leap the way Cody did. Jae is better and a better fit for 1 year.

Also what the heck do the Hornets do with MKG? Right now it's pretty clear that Frank is likely to take over Marvin's starting gig at some point given their ages and similar skillsets. Jae/MKG? Not clear at all. And no, I don't accept that MKG can play PF. He's never demonstrated that in the past & his injury history puts him at huge risk if he tries to play bigger.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Just noticed the ESPN trade machine is wonky...treating every team like they're in the tax. Maybe they'll update it when the moratorium ends but for now it's more restricting than it needs to be.

New CBA actually loosens salary-matching restrictions a bit, for smaller trades ($6,533,333 or less going out), teams can now take back 175% + $100k, up from 150% + $100k.

(6,533,334 to $19.6 million is even simpler, just get within $5M and it works).

So, the salary we'd need to send out to attain Crowder would only have to be $3,826,353. So the three non-guaranteed contracts would work if they don't want any guaranteed money coming back, as would Frank + 1 of them. We could also take back Jackson or Mickey via the Daniels TPE, just as long as we find a way to stay under the tax (Lamb out to third team?).

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[CatgutStitches]

I would not trade Frank for Crowder, for reasons listed above. Also, our wing depth is overcrowded and our big depth is destroyed after this and it doesnt even really make us better as far as I can see...whats the point?

[LofJ]

I would not trade Frank for Crowder, for reasons listed above. Also, our wing depth is overcrowded and our big depth is destroyed after this and it doesnt even really make us better as far as I can see...whats the point?

Agreed, we need scoring in our starting lineup more than anything. We might already have the answer on the roster with Frank, what good would adding a middling scorer do for the team (especially if you're moving Frank to get him)? If we're going to make a big trade it needs to be for someone that can get an efficient 30 points on any night.

[316Hornets]

As long as Cho and Cliff are here, Frank is untouchable(we turned down a lot to pick him and he hasn't been bad at all). Even if he wasn't untouchable, no way I'm sending him to Boston for Crowder - a guy that basically improved his averages because he played on a stacked Boston team.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Lol, I didn't even think of the Frank and Boston thing. Yeah **** that.

Still, Crowder is a good player and I wouldn't say our wing depth is crowded at all. If we can get him for non-guaranteed deals and a heavily protected pick (or 2nd) I'd probably go for it.

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[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Honestly Crowder would be a good fit in the current starting lineup. He is a good two-way player who can hit 3s.

Personally I object mainly to helping Boston (a team that needs NO extra help right now) and based having no clear idea what Frank's ceiling is yet.

[CatgutStitches]

Lol, I didn't even think of the Frank and Boston thing. Yeah **** that.

Still, Crowder is a good player and I wouldn't say our wing depth is crowded at all. If we can get him for non-guaranteed deals and a heavily protected pick (or 2nd) I'd probably go for it.

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Dont get me wrong, Im fine with the guy, I just dont think hes necessarily any better than Frank now (much less in the future). I just dont want to give up any real assets for him.

And our wing depth isnt overcrowded currently, but would be more-so if we did a trade like this, while destroying our big depth, which is one of our strengths right now

I actually really like the make-up of our roster right now...if we were to make a trade it would probably need to be like-players...and Im not so sure we need to unless its for a significant piece that pushes us to Boston level (which I honestly dont think we are that far off of personally)

[BlackOutBuzz]

Lol, I didn't even think of the Frank and Boston thing. Yeah **** that.

Still, Crowder is a good player and I wouldn't say our wing depth is crowded at all. If we can get him for non-guaranteed deals and a heavily protected pick (or 2nd) I'd probably go for it.

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Dont get me wrong, Im fine with the guy, I just dont think hes necessarily any better than Frank now (much less in the future). I just dont want to give up any real assets for him.

And our wing depth isnt overcrowded currently, but would be more-so if we did a trade like this, while destroying our big depth, which is one of our strengths right now

I actually really like the make-up of our roster right now...if we were to make a trade it would probably need to be like-players...and Im not so sure we need to unless its for a significant piece that pushes us to Boston level (which I honestly dont think we are that far off of personally)

I'm not advocating trading Frank...

Graham would be sent out, so I don't really see a logjam with Batum, MKG, Crowder, and Lamb.

Only big man lost would be JOB, whom we can replace with a minimum signing or just taking back Mickey with the Daniels TPE.

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[Mystical Apples]

I could see several Boston-Charlotte deals but Crowder for Kaminsky isn't exactly 1 of them. Trading cheap playmaking bigs who space the floor isn't helpful without a disproportionate return. Which isn't to dismiss Crowder's significant value - he's definitely worth an excellent 1st - it's just frontcourt passing is a scarce and underrated commodity.

Related: Horford good

Spoiler:

[Mystical Apples]

On that note....

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246757/Celtics-Could-Eventually-Target-Marc-Gasol-In-Trade

[LofJ]

A low-key trade target we'd be smart to look at is Jabari Parker. The Bucks might not want to risk extending him this summer and likely won't be comfortable matching a big RFA offer for him.

What would we realistically give up to get him? Lamb and a first with possibly a third team involved to upgrade the Bucks backcourt such as the Suns with Bledsoe?

[Braggins]

Yeah, no way I'm trading Frank for just Crowder. Crowder is probably the more valuable player at the moment, but Franks skillset is severely needed with our current roster construction. Our big depth and fit would be wrecked if we lost Frank and only brought back a wing.

I'm all for trading our three unguaranteed guys + some kind of pick for Crowder. However, I'm in the minority who thinks that Crowder would be better coming off our bench than our starting lineup. He is a better fit in the starting lineup than MKG, but MKG would be a terrible fit on our bench unit as currently constructed. The spacing would be absolute garbage with MCW/Lamb/MKG/Cody all sharing the court. For balance reasons I feel we'd have to start MKG and its not like our starting unit wasn't already really good with him as our SF. We'd have one of the absolute best bench units in the league with MCW/Lamb/Crowder/Frank/Cody and still retain our excellent starting unit. Crowder would be closing games more often than not anyways.

[chabber]

I wouldn't trade Frank, but I'd do a lot to get Crowder. He has high value on a small contract for 3 years. If they are getting rid of him the deal will not be what he'd normally warrant due to their cap.

If we were so lucky to get him, slot him in the starting unit and make moves from there.

Try signing a guy like Miles or another wing with the MLE and trade MKG for a pick or play MKG off the bench and hope the spacing doesn't present a major issue. If it does look for trades options in February to fix the second unit.

I checked out on MKG last year. I kind of thought we should have did something with him last off season and found a way to keep at least one of Lin or Lee by making them starters and bring MKG off the bench. He honestly hadn't earned a guaranteed starting gig at that point with all his injuries. Then his play changed this year so that he could stay healthy and he was not the same player. I feel we could find better options out there if we'd be ok to move on from him. My biggest concern is he and Kemba are supposed to be great friends.

[JDR720]

A low-key trade target we'd be smart to look at is Jabari Parker. The Bucks might not want to risk extending him this summer and likely won't be comfortable matching a big RFA offer for him.

What would we realistically give up to get him? Lamb and a first with possibly a third team involved to upgrade the Bucks backcourt such as the Suns with Bledsoe?

maybe, but we also cant match a big RFA offer unless we want to pay tax.

[JDR720]

he also doesnt fit here. will he play PF, thus benching/trading Frank or SF thus benching/trading MKG?

FYI i would take him over either of Frank or MKG, but there is basically no way he doesn't get max offers