Around the league 2017-2018

76ciology · Post #181 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:40 pm

BoomBap wrote:Rudy is easily a Top 20 Player in this league and only 25 years old. You have to make a huge offer to get him.

You'll be surprised on the league sentiment on centers

Unbreakable99 · Post #182 » by **Unbreakable99** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 4:54 pm

I hope the Hawks offer the max so Dallas has to match. Payback for BC getting nothing in return for Noel.

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PhilasFinest · Post #183 » by **PhilasFinest** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 5:04 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:I hope the Hawks offer the max so Dallas has to match. Payback for BC getting nothing in return for Noel.

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How is it "Payback"?

We had 0 leverage and 0 intention on re-signing him to a big deal. Opposing teams knew this and with the log jam of bigs on the roster, called our bluff. We got back what we could.

Any team that wanted Noel could have just waiting till now and offered him a max deal, knowing we were likely to not match. Why would someone give up anything meaningful if thats the case?

LongLiveHinkie · Post #184 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 5:23 pm

TTP wrote:
LongLiveHinkie wrote:Better than Hayward:

Curry
Durant
Thompson
Lebron
Kyrie
Love
Harden
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
Paul George
Embiid(yes, he is when healthy)
Booker
Giannis
Butler
Kawhi
Towns
Wiggins
Westbrook
Wall
Lillard
McCollum
Jokic
Anthony Davis
Cousins
Lowry
Isaiah Thomas

Guys I'd also consider better, but it's close:

Beal
Middleton
Marc Gasol

and Simmons and Fultz will surpass him in short order. I'm tempted to just count them because I know they'll be better, but I won't even do it yet.

And even if you wanna disagree with one of my above names, you can, but if you disagree you'd have to at least acknowledge most of them are better and for the ones you don't consider better it's very very close. If you can't do that, I question how much you watch the NBA.

Wiggins and Booker over Hayward, Middleton, and Beal is a shamefully awful take. Neither of those two is a top 50 player right now.

smittybanton · Post #185 » by **smittybanton** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 6:42 pm

Marc Gasol to the Celtics?

More than I hate Danny Ainge, I hate the fact that he's taking the right approach to this year's off season. He traded down out of a spot that was not advantageous to the Celtics. He drafted who he thought was best player available, and then uses free agency and trades for needs. He tries to squeeze every last drop out of every last asset, and he even has the national media picking up on every rumor Boston writers spread to push the trade market in his favor.

Our saving grace is, however, I do believe Bryan Colangelo is a better talent evaluator than Danny Ainge. I feel confident right now that TLC, Korkmaz, Pasecniks and Bolden will ALL be better than ALL of Boston's recent late-first and second round picks--RJ Hunter, Yabusele, etc.

As for Memphis, it's hard to imagine them giving up a hometown hero like Marc Gasol. So this again could be the national media pushing Danny's agenda. I firmly believe he uses social media to try and get GM's to call him instead of him calling them. That said, Memphis is aging. If I could get Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown for Marc Gasol, I'd have to do it.

The idea that Jaylen Brown is untouchable is funny to me, because it highlights what I believe is Ainge's major flaw. However, Jaylen Brown is pretty much the reincarnation of Gerald Wallace, with an even more aggressive offensive attitude. Very active defender with a lot of pride, and a force to be reckoned with in the open court, Brown is not a very good half-court player, as his decision making ability and technical skill lag far behind his athleticism. Just not really fluid or nimble enough to excel in tight half court spaces.

Jayson Tatum has what Jaylen Brown lacks. Where he projects to be an average wingman in transition, his half court ability does in fact resemble a young Carmelo Anthony.

Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown would be fun to watch, so long as it's in Memphis.

Unbreakable99 · Post #186 » by **Unbreakable99** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 9:38 pm

PhilasFinest wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:I hope the Hawks offer the max so Dallas has to match. Payback for BC getting nothing in return for Noel.

Read on Twitter

How is it "Payback"?

We had 0 leverage and 0 intention on re-signing him to a big deal. Opposing teams knew this and with the log jam of bigs on the roster, called our bluff. We got back what we could.

Any team that wanted Noel could have just waiting till now and offered him a max deal, knowing we were likely to not match. Why would someone give up anything meaningful if thats the case?

BC did a horrible job of projecting. If he was going to trade Noel he should have traded him in last year's draft. He would have gotten a real first if he did that.

51X3RF4N · Post #187 » by **51X3RF4N** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 11:02 pm

Could he have traded Noel, without ever having seen Embiid play a single game? I think the focus was trying to trade Okafor, but not finding a market for him. So, eventually once Embiid showed what he's capable of, Noel became expendable.

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76ciology · Post #188 » by **76ciology** » Wed Jul 5, 2017 11:41 pm

Signing Noel will ruin Mavs roster construction/cap structure. So will the Hawks. Smart teams will stay away from giving Noel big money.

If I have a first, I'd rather take my chances or atleast 4-5 year rental on Bam or Jordan Bell.

If I need a defensive big, McGee and Dedmon can be had for cheap right now.

If I'm rebuilding, I won't worry about the C position until I have a solid guard-wing core talent and contract.

the_process · Post #189 » by **the_process** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 3:38 am

76ciology wrote:Signing Noel will ruin Mavs roster construction/cap structure. So will the Hawks. Smart teams will stay away from giving Noel big money.

If I have a first, I'd rather take my chances or atleast 4-5 year rental on Bam or Jordan Bell.

If I need a defensive big, McGee and Dedmon can be had for cheap right now.

If I'm rebuilding, I won't worry about the C position until I have a solid guard-wing core talent and contract.

The Hawks currently have one NBA player on their roster and have shown interest in Noel before.

the_process · Post #190 » by **the_process** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 3:40 am

Kinda pissed BOS landed Hayward. Really wanted to get some more good old Boston schadenfreude going.

Chris76 · Post #191 » by **Chris76** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:19 am

51X3RF4N wrote:Could he have traded Noel, without ever having seen Embiid play a single game? I think the focus was trying to trade Okafor, but not finding a market for him. So, eventually once Embiid showed what he's capable of, Noel became expendable.

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Noel didn't want to be a backup to Embiid and forced BC's hand. He was a jerk in the beginning of the year, not playing. The Sixers gave him time to recover and taught him to be serviceable on offense. He would have been perfect with Simmons in transition. Anyway, BC couldn't of given a backup a good contract, when cap space will be needed for more important assets.

Post #192 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:35 pm

Grizzles are retiring Z-Bo's #50 jersey... Lol, wha?

ivysixer2000 · Post #193 » by **ivysixer2000** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 7:18 pm

76ciology wrote:
BoomBap wrote:Rudy is easily a Top 20 Player in this league and only 25 years old. You have to make a huge offer to get him.

You'll be surprised on the league sentiment on centers

The league's sentiment on centers is bad cause there are no great centers. None.....only Embiid is the hope for the position.

Rudy gets a huge contract cause all the rest of them suck, and he sucks too. Ok, maybe not suck, but he's not great at all. Only dude that can change it is Embiid, if healthy.

MGB8 · Post #194 » by **MGB8** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 7:42 pm

76ciology wrote:Signing Noel will ruin Mavs roster construction/cap structure. So will the Hawks. Smart teams will stay away from giving Noel big money.

If I have a first, I'd rather take my chances or atleast 4-5 year rental on Bam or Jordan Bell.

If I need a defensive big, McGee and Dedmon can be had for cheap right now.

If I'm rebuilding, I won't worry about the C position until I have a solid guard-wing core talent and contract.

I don't agree.

Noel is exactly the kind of center most teams want - a guy who is mobile enough to defend stretch bigs but get back into the point and provide help defense, also defend the post - and passable offensively.

If the Sixers didn't have Embiid, they would have kept Noel. But they (like Dallas) would have had to pay Max or near-max money to keep him this year and onwards... which is why they kind of had to move him, once Embiid showed that he really was a potentially transcendent talent.

Unbreakable99 · Post #195 » by **Unbreakable99** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 8:44 pm

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eagereyez · Post #196 » by **eagereyez** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 3:58 am

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/whats-new-in-our-nba-player-projections-for-2017-18/

Another piece of info which favors RPM. 538's player projection model became significantly less accurate when they moved away from RPM and more towards BPM.

76ciology · Post #197 » by **76ciology** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 5:43 am

eagereyez wrote:https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/whats-new-in-our-nba-player-projections-for-2017-18/

Another piece of info which favors RPM. 538's player projection model became significantly less accurate when they moved away from RPM and more towards BPM.

Melo project don't think highly of Ben Simmons and Embiid

76ciology · Post #198 » by **76ciology** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 5:46 am

MGB8 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Signing Noel will ruin Mavs roster construction/cap structure. So will the Hawks. Smart teams will stay away from giving Noel big money.

If I have a first, I'd rather take my chances or atleast 4-5 year rental on Bam or Jordan Bell.

If I need a defensive big, McGee and Dedmon can be had for cheap right now.

If I'm rebuilding, I won't worry about the C position until I have a solid guard-wing core talent and contract.

I don't agree.

Noel is exactly the kind of center most teams want - a guy who is mobile enough to defend stretch bigs but get back into the point and provide help defense, also defend the post - and passable offensively.

If the Sixers didn't have Embiid, they would have kept Noel. But they (like Dallas) would have had to pay Max or near-max money to keep him this year and onwards... which is why they kind of had to move him, once Embiid showed that he really was a potentially transcendent talent.

I don't believe they'll keep Noel. And we wont be able to prove that.

IMO they'll follow Spurs, Rox, GSW or Cavs blueprint and just play with a replaceable center and use the Noel money for a wing/guard instead. That is what the knowledgeable GMs like Morey do

Specially now we have Bolden and Holmes. No need for Noel. He's also prone to be abused by bigger centers like Drummond, Whiteside or Gobert.

We wont pay 20+M for that. Rather pay 20+M for Otto Porter, KCP, Hayward and such. Quite frankly, I do think Jazz would have be in better shape with Hayward than Gobert. But I don't deny Gobert is the way better player.

GabeCerebro · Post #199 » by **GabeCerebro** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:20 am

t_smith979 wrote:
GabeCerebro wrote:
shawn_hemp wrote:Maybe it's just me but I don't really see Gordon Hayward as a top 25 player in the league

lmao you can't be serious. I hope not..
I understand we all hate Boston, but come on now. That's a ridiculous statement. If anything he's almost top 15

No way is he top 15, their are easily, easily 15 better players in the league then him. Not saying he isn't a good player because I quite like him but he's definitely not top 15 and there is argument for him not to be top 25.

lol. Still waiting for a list of some sort... So I can see your reaches.

GabeCerebro · Post #200 » by **GabeCerebro** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:24 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:

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No way Lebron is going to the Lakers and risking never winning a ring there, and forever tainting his legacy more by being one upped by Kobe etc. He wouldn't dare put himself in those shadows under that much pressure. No chance.