Knicks sign Hardaway

[Greenie]

KT did you see THjr advance defensive metrics? He has a -3.5 FG% against when defending an opponent. That actually somewhat impresses me. You obviously have to look at the eye test (I can say I didn't watch much of him last year). But the stats suggest he became a much better defender.

If this is the case...I could start coming around on this.

ONLY if we trade Lee and Melo too.

he's a good fit with frank. forget Strasbourg this is how frank wants to play:

Watch on YouTube

he needs horses to get out on the break with him.

I agree my decision on this move is on hold. Lee and Melo need to be traded.

Need? No. Want? Yes.

[El Poochio]

[ccvle]

I honestly havent followed THJ after he got traded to the hawks, but please stop saying this is the new "norm" with the 100 m cap. Most of the teams regarded signing the likes of ryan anderson, evan turner, etc.

[captvict]

hes 6"6 can this dude play the 3 ???

[Billy Goat]

the holiday faithful is mind numbing. you would think he's on the cusp of an all-star season with the bulls next season.

He's not. He's just a much less expensive version of Tim Hardaway

who is much worse offensively. much worse.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?utf8=✓&player_ids%5B%5D=1332&player_ids%5B%5D=1350&season=2016



Not really

[DOT]

If Holiday had more attempts, I think he'd be able to produce similar results. Different mentality so maybe you're right and that plays a part, but production wise over 30-35 minutes I think Justin could have had a similar impact (with better defense).

I still take this over Waiters, though.

apparently we're in the minority and waiters is a steal

Dion shot better than him and can actually put the ball on the floor and create off the dribble. 4/52 for Dion >>>> 4/71 for THJ. I wouldn't want either on my team though.

Dion's 3pt % - .395
THJ 3pt % - .357

Dion shot 49 % at the rim (which is atrocious)
THJ shot 63%

Dion's TS% - .507 (again, atrocious)
THJ TS% - .568

Hardaway is more efficient, and slightly better defensively
Hardaway by a mile

[MaseInYourFace]

No matter how you ultimately look at this knicks have to take an L for not developing Timmy right. Had they developed him properly he'd still be here and under our control, and hopefully cheaper.

[Greenie]

It's the new cba. It's just what guys are getting paid. Deal with it. Dude carried Atlanta in the second half. He's a hard worker. With no Melo we would need scoring and he's capable. I'm tying to live with it because he's 24 and the contract is probably 50 mil in the old cba which he would of got anyway. It's the new norm.

People bugging about the money don't understand the new cap. It's 100 million, not 60.

Yea you're right the entire sports world laughing at this deal and atlanta dont understand the !
"New cap" which by the way went backwards this year and will remain flat which means open space will become more and more valuable as time goes on. Sign Holiday for 5 mm per season to have a competent wing and move on.

The same mofo's that loved the Rose trade?

[El Poochio]

apparently we're in the minority and waiters is a steal

Dion shot better than him and can actually put the ball on the floor and create off the dribble. 4/52 for Dion >>>> 4/71 for THJ. I wouldn't want either on my team though.

You didn't watch Timmy this past year.
Timmy has been working on those handles. He can create a bit off dribble now.

Its in his genes

[NevaGivinKnixUp]

I wake up to this bs?!!! Wtf!!!! Why is this franchise so dumb?!!!!

I was fortunate enough to see last night and sleep on it. After some rest and a lot of good sense from greenie and a few others, im now "meh" instead of straight done with this team.

And now that i don't mind it, just means ATL matches and I'm fine with that also. TBF Timmy has been our best late draft pick in a long time aside from Willy. Knicks gonna knick though regarding we traded him and now lost bird rights smh.

[Esq-4]

It's like a horror franchise…:lol:

Dad Melo...?

Since it might be a reality, does adding THJr and subtracting Rose make us a playoff team?

Not unless at least a few of the following teams is moved to the Western Conference or disbanded...Celtics, Cavs, Raptors, Wizards, Bucks, Heat, Hornets and (dare I say) Sixers.

That's only 8 teams and Heat Hornets and Sixers are no lock. I'm not even saying I want the playoffs, but it is a possibility - a lot of close games last year.

I'd like to see us pull off a 3 way trade that moving Melo lands Harkless. That rumored deal with Leonard and Harkless coming here makes us run the risk of becoming Blazers east (without Lillard) getting hamstrung with too many big long term contracts...

[moocow007]

The PJax defenders are having a field day, but let's compare his big signing last summer to the one Mills just made as they got the same contract:

Noah played 29 games the season before
THJ played 79 games the season before

Noah lost his starting job on a non playoff team
THJ gained the starting job on a playoff team

Noah was coming off a year of career low scoring and shooting
THJ was coming off a year of career high scoring and shooting

Noah was coming in to start over a young prospect
THJ is coming in to start over an older player

Noah was 31 when he signed
THJ was 25 when he signed

I'm not defending the signing. I would of stopped at 14 per, IF I was even interested in signing THJ, which I wasn't. But using this to boost PJax is ridiculous.

This is not a soapbox

Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

Hes not though. I don't recall many Knick fans being happy with the Deal Noah received last offseason. They wanted the player, but the numbers seemed way off. Sort of the same situation here...except Timmy doesn't have the injury concerns and is only 25.

I believe dakomish is basically calling out Jackson defenders who are using Hardaway's contract as an argument that Jackson signing Noah wasn't bad (or any worse than this one). It's not about many Knick fans being happy with the deal.

[Jimmit79]

Greenie watched Timmy.
Dude was flat our balling.

Greenie has lost it lol

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[Greenie]

hes 6"6 can this dude play the 3 ???

A little bit but he's better in the backcourt.

[DaKnicksAreBack]

Tim improved his handles, finishing, shot selection and defense. I think he's ready to become a 20 pt scorer this year. He just needs to regain this first half of rookie year shot.

[Greenie]

Greenie watched Timmy.
Dude was flat our balling.

Greenie has lost it lol

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

Not at all.
He's going to be lit in 2K

[El Poochio]

hes 6"6 can this dude play the 3 ???

I think they can play together with Damson which is what matters, as long as Damson can defend and have some defensive versatility

[eagle54]

The guy play for a contract last year, now we know the story made in knicks. Come back to NYC, bad season for him and at the end when we need to lost for the tank he scores a buzzer beater and kill our chance for the draft. We lost at the lottery again. Always the same thing

[FKF]

The PJax defenders are having a field day, but let's compare his big signing last summer to the one Mills just made as they got the same contract:

Noah played 29 games the season before
THJ played 79 games the season before

Noah lost his starting job on a non playoff team
THJ gained the starting job on a playoff team

Noah was coming off a year of career low scoring and shooting
THJ was coming off a year of career high scoring and shooting

Noah was coming in to start over a young prospect
THJ is coming in to start over an older player

Noah was 31 when he signed
THJ was 25 when he signed

I'm not defending the signing. I would of stopped at 14 per, IF I was even interested in signing THJ, which I wasn't. But using this to boost PJax is ridiculous.

This is not a soapbox

If your best argument is that this signing isn't as bad as the worst contract in the league then you have a poor argument.

Then you misunderstood the entire argument

I said this move is not a reason to praise PJax

That's it. I even said I'm NOT defending the signing. See bold.

This is a move that Phil just wouldn't have done. It's not an argument, just a fact.

Is it fair to compare players when one is hurt, and the other one is healthy ?
No.

Noah was hurt all season. The Bulls were sad to see him leave. The Hawks won't miss Jr.

[Knicksfan20]

I just hope that with Timmy coming that doesn't change things with Melo being traded. We can be young and competitive and still rebuild.


I wonder if Dolan didn't want to trade THJR and as soon as Phil was gone was like... I want him back. Sign him.