Was Reggie's injury the major reason for our regression in 2016-17?

[Laimbeer]

I think we were all a lot higher on this team a year ago. Then this season happened. Was Reggie's injury the major reason? And if so, do you anticipate him fully recovering and our returning to the prior season's form?

[MotownMadness]

Of course it was, guy flat out lost his first step and couldn't get past anyone like he could. It changed the whole identity of the team from the previous year.

[Billl]

It was clearly the big driver. Our offense ran though him and he was the one getting Dre going with easy dunks.

I hope he recovers, but I wouldn't bet on it. It's one of those issues that is likely to be reoccuring.

[mattao313]

Yes the team had no identity and lacked a guy who could get buckets which was Reggies role the season before last.

[Arp590]

Definitely, Reggie played like our best player before his injury.

[Kilo]

Yes, but it's a chronic issue with no surgical fix. That's who he is going forward.

[mercury]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/07/20/jacksons-return-health-power-pistons-rebound/103872996/

[Spider156]

No I don't think it was a major reason for our regression. We played better during the season without him. I think he should've came off the bench but he started right away and shook up the chemistry. It says a lot about his ego. Then Drummond started slacking off because Jackson can't make a simple pass and make his life easier. Instead he over dribbles and ball hogs. He was a major reason for our losses but in my opinion the whole team wasn't performing well. It starts with Jackson and Dre. A second chance is worth it but I wouldn't give Jackson more than half a season even if he does well. You gotta get it right with the point guard or else the system isn't going to work. SVG shouldn't blow the team up before changing PGs first and Jackson is running out of time.

[Pharaoh]

I think SVGs coaching was a bigger issue.

The team was starting to turn it on just prior to RJ returning...we put him back in the starting line up and suffered because of it

I know some coaches don't agree with a guy losing his starting spot because of injury...but I don't think you can make hard and fast rules like that

Had we brought RJ back slowly everyone benefits:

The group with Ish that had started to roll continues to do so

RJ is eased back in as a super sub off the pine so less pressure immediately on him

You manage the Ish/RJ issue by simply playing the guy who is rolling on any given night

SVG not only destroyed a unit that was rolling, him returning RJ to the starting line up put RJ under pressure that was unnecessary

Throw in the fact that he had a golden opportunity to diversify the offense in training camp when RJs issue came up!

He could have made Tobias & KCP our key guys (reward the workers) but chose to stick with his system...

Poor development with SJ/Henry...

Not using Bobo enough...

Not holding Dre, Mook & RJ accountable for poor play on both ends

RJs injury had a big impact - how SVG managed it was just one of numerous issues he struggled with

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[vic]

Nope.

SVG's coaching was THE issue.

Sorry but if all you got is one trick, you're not a good professional coach.

The team was playing great, uptempo, pass first basketball with Ish, KCP, and Tobias playing the best basketball of their careers. Stanley was defending and passing in the 2nd unit (though his shooting was horrible). They were winning.

Then SVG's stubbornness kicked in and he decided to throw in his injured, dribble first dribble last PG who's only strength is scoring at will in the 4th quarter. Even if he wasn't injured, throwing off team chemistry like that was a dumb move.

Only Marcus Morris had the courage to call it out, then SVG totally disrespected his team meeting.

SVG's decision making ruined the season.

SVG is the type of coach that needs somebody smarter than him on the floor making decisions. A pass-first Pg or a pass first SF. Hopefully Stanley Johnson can turn into that pass first SF this year.

[jakebernat]

Nope.

SVG's coaching was THE issue.

Sorry but if all you got is one trick, you're not a good professional coach.

The team was playing great, uptempo, pass first basketball with Ish, KCP, and Tobias playing the best basketball of their careers. Stanley was defending and passing in the 2nd unit (though his shooting was horrible). They were winning.

Then SVG's stubbornness kicked in and he decided to throw in his injured, dribble first dribble last PG who's only strength is scoring at will in the 4th quarter. Even if he wasn't injured, throwing off team chemistry like that was a dumb move.

Only Marcus Morris had the courage to call it out, then SVG totally disrespected his team meeting.

SVG's decision making ruined the season.

SVG is the type of coach that needs somebody smarter than him on the floor making decisions. A pass-first Pg or a pass first SF. Hopefully Stanley Johnson can turn into that pass first SF this year.

Very valid points, but I find it to be a rather naive form of thought to believe that a hobbled Reggie didn't have a snowball effect on the rest of the lineup. Just a season prior, he was dominating our offense out of the P&R and subsequently established the foundation for our team.

And this was a .500 team without Reggie to start the season. In other words, it's not like we were setting the world on fire. You can make the case that SVG should've restructured our offense to accommodate and ease Reggie back into the lineup, but that's a risky move midseason for a team with playoff aspirations and a taste of winning basketball just half a year prior.

Though I will definitely agree that SVG and his general stubbornness can be his own worst enemy.

[Pharaoh]

Nope.

SVG's coaching was THE issue.

Sorry but if all you got is one trick, you're not a good professional coach.

The team was playing great, uptempo, pass first basketball with Ish, KCP, and Tobias playing the best basketball of their careers. Stanley was defending and passing in the 2nd unit (though his shooting was horrible). They were winning.

Then SVG's stubbornness kicked in and he decided to throw in his injured, dribble first dribble last PG who's only strength is scoring at will in the 4th quarter. Even if he wasn't injured, throwing off team chemistry like that was a dumb move.

Only Marcus Morris had the courage to call it out, then SVG totally disrespected his team meeting.

SVG's decision making ruined the season.

SVG is the type of coach that needs somebody smarter than him on the floor making decisions. A pass-first Pg or a pass first SF. Hopefully Stanley Johnson can turn into that pass first SF this year.

Very valid points, but I find it to be a rather naive form of thought to believe that a hobbled Reggie didn't have a snowball effect on the rest of the lineup. Just a season prior, he was dominating our offense out of the P&R and subsequently established the foundation for our team.

No one should deny that Reggie's injury had a big impact.

The way SVG handled it made that impact bigger than it needed to be though

And this was a .500 team without Reggie to start the season. In other words, it's not like we were setting the world on fire.

The most we've won with RJ as our PG is 43 games. Without him playing a single minute we were on track to win 41!

You can make the case that SVG should've restructured our offense to accommodate and ease Reggie back into the lineup, but that's a risky move midseason for a team with playoff aspirations and a taste of winning basketball just half a year prior.

RJ went down in training camp dude so the chance was there to diversify the offense and then ease him back in come December.

You're not reinventing the wheel in either scenario.

Though I will definitely agree that SVG and his general stubbornness can be his own worst enemy.

Agreed



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[vic]

Nope.

SVG's coaching was THE issue.

Sorry but if all you got is one trick, you're not a good professional coach.

The team was playing great, uptempo, pass first basketball with Ish, KCP, and Tobias playing the best basketball of their careers. Stanley was defending and passing in the 2nd unit (though his shooting was horrible). They were winning.

Then SVG's stubbornness kicked in and he decided to throw in his injured, dribble first dribble last PG who's only strength is scoring at will in the 4th quarter. Even if he wasn't injured, throwing off team chemistry like that was a dumb move.

Only Marcus Morris had the courage to call it out, then SVG totally disrespected his team meeting.

SVG's decision making ruined the season.

SVG is the type of coach that needs somebody smarter than him on the floor making decisions. A pass-first Pg or a pass first SF. Hopefully Stanley Johnson can turn into that pass first SF this year.

Very valid points, but I find it to be a rather naive form of thought to believe that a hobbled Reggie didn't have a snowball effect on the rest of the lineup. Just a season prior, he was dominating our offense out of the P&R and subsequently established the foundation for our team.

And this was a .500 team without Reggie to start the season. In other words, it's not like we were setting the world on fire. You can make the case that SVG should've restructured our offense to accommodate and ease Reggie back into the lineup, but that's a risky move midseason for a team with playoff aspirations and a taste of winning basketball just half a year prior.

Though I will definitely agree that SVG and his general stubbornness can be his own worst enemy.

I never said it wasn't a factor... but I said it wasn't the MAJOR reason. The Coach's job is to make winning decisions, period.
And they were NOT a .500 team, they were a team that had a bad start, then gelled. They were surging upward and playing well and winning before they were interrupted by bad decisions.

As a coach, you have to understand more than your system and the numbers. There are team dynamics and you have to have be able to have your finger on the pulse of them to not be hardheaded.

[mattao313]

No one should deny that Reggie's injury had a big impact.

The way SVG handled it made that impact bigger than it needed to be though

The most we've won with RJ as our PG is 43 games. Without him playing a single minute we were on track to win 41!

This is really inaccurate you can't really compare a 20 game sample to a whole season I mean Andre Drummond was putting up superstar number for the first 20 games in 15-16 season.


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[davidvolumes]

I think not. Prior to Reggies return the team was playing at a .500 percentage and the teams play was trending upward. It was very possible for the team to finish with 41, 43 or even more wins. The season went into the tank when SVG inserted Reggie back into the starting lineup.
So it seems it was SVG coaching decisions that doomed the season. Force feeding an obviously hobbled Reggie into the starting lineup. Force feeding Dre touches when he by statistics he was the least efficient starting center in the NBA.The failure of last season rests on the shoulders of the coach not Reggies injury imo.

[hoophabit]

Yes, Reggie's injury and its cascading effects. Didn't they win 44 in 15/16?

[bballnmike]

There were many factors, basically everything that could go wrong last year did... but if I had to pick the most important one it would probably be Reggie's injury.

[Finn McCool]

I think we were all a lot higher on this team a year ago. Then this season happened. Was Reggie's injury the major reason? And if so, do you anticipate him fully recovering and our returning to the prior season's form?

Kind of a complicated question. Seems most members here are agreeing that it was the major reason.

I know it was a significant obstacle, but I feel the 'regression' was due to youth - a lack of maturity, and team chemistry.

Allow me to explain my thoughts:

There were two important signings in the offseason(Ish Smith & Jon Leuer) which I'd argue may have contributed to a decline in team chemistry. With Ish initially getting minutes in the starting line-up, he had to quickly build rapport with players who most likely held Reggie in much higher regard. As most of us could agree, there was a period of adjustment needed.

I'm certain the one thing players must have noticed and appreciated, was the quicker tempo and ball movement. Which meant they were now touching the ball more often. Not just getting shots, but also having the ability to find another teammate a better shot. I'd bet that was a welcome revelation... and also a reason for apprehension upon Jackson's return.

Then there was Leuer, who came in at the same time as a PF(undetermined?) Draft selection. Harris and Morris(more so) must have wondered how their new teammates were going to affect minutes... particularly when they learn how amply Leuer got paid. Perhaps another hurdle in team chemistry. And quite possible may have proliferated when Leuer was inserted in the starting line-up.

Now, I realize that there is an argument that these players are professional. Yet, we often justify negative things about them, contending that they are such n' such of age. Yep, they're young compared to me. And yes, some are very mature for their age. However, they're also human... and vulnerable to moments of divisiveness.

[ImHeisenberg]

Reggie's knee, to a degree. When he came back and he clearly was far from 100%, it really created a toxic atmosphere in the locker room when he still wouldn't defer and just shot our team out of game after game after game.

I put a lot of blame on SVG, his complete failure to either pull him, or actually coach the player to move the ball more, was on him.

On top of that, Drummond showed us he wasn't able - or unwilling - to step up when his team needed him. Instead, he took the money and ran.

Everyone, for the most part, under-performed last year. I believe a complete lack of leadership from either the players or coaches was the primary cause of this happening.

I hope bringing back Tolliver helps bring some semblance of leadership in the locker room, as well as Avery Bradley. Additionally, I hope SVG has a much shorter leash on Reggie if he still isn't ready to play, or begins playing with tunnel vision again.