2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[Prokorov]

Seriously, who are we supposed to sign with these 'pretty' numbers? Porter is one and we won't get him.

KCP can do everything a 3&D wing does. Catch and shoot, defend passing lanes, etc. Is he inefficient? Yes but wasn't that the whole point of hiring Marks and his developmental staff? KCP is 24.

I hated the idea of maxing him. I have no problem signing him outright. We won 20 games and he started on a playoff team and did well. Can we say that about anybody here except Lin?

I'd negotiate anything up to 75-80. Thats my limit.




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Is he really a 3pt shooter if he shoots 33% 3pt career? Hell, Booker shot 34% and 32% 3pt in two years and no one gave him any credit for being a potential 3pt stretch 4.

It's not like we have a hole at SG. Why not focus on PF/SF/C instead? I'm okay with KCP at $10m but unless Marks envisions incredible growth trajectory for KCP, I don't see why you'd spend $17m+ on him.

yes. you need to look at the type of threes not just the threes. look at his catch and shoot numbers. very good. his overall 3 point percentage is low because of how many on the ball/pull up threes he took.

[Prokorov]

Read on Twitter

Russell | KCP | Levert | RHJ | Allen

i love that as a young core.

[Prokorov]

RT, **** KCP unless he coming for 12-13 a year. Rather just get salary dumps, getting Carroll/Aldrich both who comes off in two years and get young talent or drafts picks.

ummmm... KCP IS young talent.

I really dont get this forum. people hype up fodder like Simmons and Green but KCP gets dragged through the mud somehow? I get no one wanted to give the max to KCP. I didnt either. i was driving the "DONT MAX KCP" bandwagon.

but now that he isnt an RFA, if we can get him between 16-20M thats a really solid offer for a really good young player.

People are talking about his shooting like he is some brick laying chucker:

35% from three on 6 attempts a game. thats a very good percentage for such high volume. especially when you factor in that 22% of his threes came off the dribble (by comparison crabbe only 3% off the dribble).

guy is a solid defender. a legit 2 way guy. strong, athletic, versatile. just turned 24 years old.

[Prokorov]

So the Nets went from "character", "culture"... to "snitch", "dui" lol the desperation is real

i dont think russell or KCP have charecter issues. in fact, i believe both have extremely high charecter.

[Ror1997]

I think the ballhawking defense of Lin, Levert, KCP, and RHJ would be something that would keep in us a lot of games and be an annoyance to many teams. It would be reminiscent of the 2013-15 Celtics, whose pestering defense made up for their lack of offensive talent and had them beating teams who couldn't match their effort.

I'm mad how I've been saying this since like February and everybody is just starting to come around to it now

I liked KCP but when everyone began talking about him being $20mil+, he fell into the "overpaid" player bracket for me and I was no longer interested. If it's true that he's not in that bracket at all, then he's a good deal; if not and we sign him to a cap-killing deal, we're all coming for you.

Once I found out his max was 4/100+ I knew he wasn't a max player. But I think 20M a year is/was is RFA price. Probably lost around 20M from losing those rfa rights.

[kastuul]

Read on Twitter

Russell | KCP | Levert | RHJ | Allen

i love that as a young core.

Backcourt for the future? not NOW?

Is this mean that one of them will play off the bench for a while?

[Prokorov]

I'm not trying to be argumentative but Nets fans on this board have been talking salaries, salary caps, contracts, poison pills, RFA, Natalie Jay, front-loaded payments, etc for a long time. Hell, Prok even has a separate thread on salary caps.

So I'm not sure why you're taking a stand here when I'm basically saying that KCP at $10m is okay but at $17m is not. Hundreds of other people have made similar salary-based arguments for a bunch of UFA and RFA, not sure why you're picking an argument here.

I'm not at all saying salary isn't important. I'm not saying fans shouldn't discuss it.

I'm saying fans shouldnt factor it into their opinion as much as they do.

I can't even tell you how many posts about players there are where the idea is immediately shot down based on salary alone. Usually in the first sentence of the post too. There's all these players we shouldn't sign because of hypothetical future transactions they could mess up.

There's a valid point to be made that trades like DLo for Mosgovs contract don't fall on your lap everyday. There's also a argument to be made that not every GM is Magic Johnson

Not every salary dump is going to net you DLo. Most salary dumps aren't even going to net you a good prospect. People think that having all this space means we have room to gain all these valuable assets in salary dumps but in reality we wouldnt have anything half as appealing as DLo.

People are more concerned with the finances then how the team will play basketball.

I hear you. That's why I was generally okay with OPJ. His TS% increased every year and was at an amazing 63% last year. And he's a solid wing defender. So maybe 26m is a lot for him but his numbers and potential and roster fit seem to warrant it.

KCP on the other hand has a TS% that's hovered around 52%, which I think is terrible for a starting player (D'Lo's TS% is also 52% so there's going to be a lot of bricks from the backcourt). And he doesn't have good peripheral stats either. I wasn't impressed by his DRtg or DBPM too. All of this plus the logjam at SG, and KCP saying 5yr/80m wasn't close to what he wanted, made me feel

if porter was asked to create as much of his own offense as KCP was his TS% would plummet and be alot closer to what KCP put up

[Hello Brooklyn]

I don't mind signing KCP as long as its a good contract.

We have no talent on this team and we need to start getting guys. There will be virtually no competition for him at this point.

Lets just offer him a 2 or 3 year deal. I would be fine with that.

I don't mind it as well. Just wish we were more aggressive pursuing salary dumps, the market has dried pretty quickly and i doubt major things will happen at this point, wish we could've gotten a pick.

Well its not like any other teams are getting salary dumps.

I'm sure were trying, but teams just don't need to dump salary that badly right now.

[Prokorov]

Read on Twitter

Russell | KCP | Levert | RHJ | Allen

i love that as a young core.

Backcourt for the future? not NOW?

Is this mean that one of them will play off the bench for a while?

its irrelevant. they will all get 25-30 minutes

[steady]

Atlanta has renounced Ersan Ilyasova.


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Could be a solid vet pickup for reasonable salary - he got $8 m last season. Nets could use a stretch 4.

[Curns13]

RT, **** KCP unless he coming for 12-13 a year. Rather just get salary dumps, getting Carroll/Aldrich both who comes off in two years and get young talent or drafts picks.

ummmm... KCP IS young talent.

I really dont get this forum. people hype up fodder like Simmons and Green but KCP gets dragged through the mud somehow? I get no one wanted to give the max to KCP. I didnt either. i was driving the "DONT MAX KCP" bandwagon.

but now that he isnt an RFA, if we can get him between 16-20M thats a really solid offer for a really good young player.

People are talking about his shooting like he is some brick laying chucker:

35% from three on 6 attempts a game. thats a very good percentage for such high volume. especially when you factor in that 22% of his threes came off the dribble (by comparison crabbe only 3% off the dribble).

guy is a solid defender. a legit 2 way guy. strong, athletic, versatile. just turned 24 years old.

I was very anti-KCP but now that his price is probably 16-18M my stance has softened. I still don't see the fit. I really think LeVert is a 2 not a 3 and I don't think KCP can really play the 3 much at all. We do need young talent and he is easily the best available and now at a reasonable price, so maybe its ok.

[NyCeEvO]

Wait, hold on. Can someone explain to me why we even want KCP?

His numbers are not pretty: career 40.5% FG, 33% 3PT, not much contributions elsewhere, and average defender.

KCP would be seen as a much better player if he showed a bit more restraint and court awareness on the offensive end. That alone would do wonders for his total effectiveness on the court. Additionally, KCP has good potential in terms of being a good ballhandler, penetrator, and slasher. He's already shown flashes of those things in Detroit.

I think he's definitely an above average defender. His defensive intensity is what made Piston fans vouch for him over almost every other player on their roster since they didn't play with his level of effort.

Also, if Russell and Levert are getting 30mpg, then you only have 36 mpg to spread around with Kilpatrick, Goodwin, Whitehead, Harris.

Why didn't we just go for Green or Olynyk or Dedmon?

Borderline playoff teams need to be two deep at a minimum of two positions.

We have one definite NBA PG in Lin. We have hope that Russell and Levert will end up being great pros but they're still young players who still need to grow physically have much to learn. I don't see the harm in having a strong backcourt core of Lin/Russell/Levert/KCP altogether at least for this season. (Lin could leave next offseason since he has a player option.) Plus, KCP can take minutes at the 3 in smaller lineups and Levert being 6'7" could become a full-time SF if and when he adds more weight.

Kilpatrick is a free agent after this year. I have a feeling another team will pay him a lot more money than we'd want to next offseason.

Goodwin is talented but still has a ways to go before he ought to be considered a legit rotation player and a core Nets player. If things go well, he may take Kilpatrick's spot in the years ahead.

I hope Marks looks to bolster the 4 spot with legit talent. If OPJ isn't matched, we could still have enough space to go after a Green or even Dedmon. I'm ok with letting Olynyk go....I think he's replaceable.

[Ror1997]

He's not getting 4/72 unless that's a last resort

I think he'll get 4/58

4/60 is the abosolute least he would take. 4/72 is probably the low end of what kcp would get. thj just got 4/71 and kcp is much better

THJ as a UFA would probably get something like 4/48-4/52. That extra 20 or so million is (what I would like to officially call) the Sean Marks kicker. Much like a trade kicker, the Sean Marks kicker multiplies the players average annual salary to create their new salary. The purpose of the Sean Marks kicker is to try and just get the other team to, you know, piss off.

But seriously, KCP lost all his leverage. He can still get a nice payday, but 20M I just don't see happening. I would be ecstatic to get him, whether if be 4/60 or 4/80. I just don't see there being a market in which he can get that 4/80 contract. Only way he gets that is if Marks does it as a last resort. I don't see any other team doing that.

[steady]

The one saving grace is that the Knicks can't get him either because of the THJ deal. Hopefully we give him a verbal offer and he's ok with waiting

Is it going to come down to who is more petty (in drawing out the time to match)? Hawks (re T Hardaway) or Wiz?

no it isnt, because the hawks wont even consider matching that terrible offer sheet

Yep you're right - the more I think about it the more I wonder who the Nets' competition for KCP will be, apart from the Lakers' 1 year offer. He reportedly refused the Pistons $16 m x five years offer but the market has dramatically changed since then

[Hello Brooklyn]

I have a feeling that KCP is going to get low balled.

Nobody but us is competing for him anymore. I am almost certain the Wizards will match our Porter offer sheet.

After that

Kings have wasted their cap space
Sixers too
Knicks won't get a match on THJ
Pistons gave up

So who is left?

Utah?
Atlanta?

Neither of those teams have expressed any interest.

I can forsee KCP coming for below market value. And if hes on a good contract he can easily be moved if we need more cap space in the future.

This is the best case scenario. I would rather have KCP on a good contract than Porter on a bad one.

Marks is doing the right thing.

[steady]

I have a feeling that KCP is going to get low balled.

Nobody but us is competing for him anymore. I am almost certain the Wizards will match our Porter offer sheet.

After that

Kings have wasted their cap space
Sixers too
Knicks won't get a match on THJ
Pistons gave up

So who is left?

Utah?
Atlanta?

Neither of those teams have expressed any interest.

I can forsee KCP coming for below market value. And if hes on a good contract he can easily be moved if we need more cap space in the future.

This is the best case scenario. I would rather have KCP on a good contract than Porter on a bad one.

Marks is doing the right thing.

I really like Marks amd feel the Nets are in good hands. But in this instance I think it is more Marks falling into the right situation than any skill or decision making on his part. We'll see how he handles the negotiation that will be the real test

[Ror1997]

I have a feeling that KCP is going to get low balled.

Nobody but us is competing for him anymore. I am almost certain the Wizards will match our Porter offer sheet.

After that

Kings have wasted their cap space
Sixers too
Knicks won't get a match on THJ
Pistons gave up

So who is left?

Utah?
Atlanta?

Neither of those teams have expressed any interest.

I can forsee KCP coming for below market value. And if hes on a good contract he can easily be moved if we need more cap space in the future.

This is the best case scenario. I would rather have KCP on a good contract than Porter on a bad one.

Marks is doing the right thing.

*record scratch*

Lakers would probably give him a 1 year 20M deal. We might be his only long term option but if marks pulls out that 4/44M deal, KCP would be going to hollywood so fast you would feel like American idol never even got canceled.

[Crunky]

Getting Kcp is a bargaining chip when it comes to Lin's next contract. Most teams have a vet point guard or their grooming one, so his price may not be too costly to bring back.

[vincecarter4pres]

20 a season is still too high for my liking. He's unrestricted and no one out there is going to give him that kind of coin.

LAL wants to give him 17 for one season.

Marks needs to swoop in here and get a 3 or 4 year deal at like 13 to 15 per. Keep as much cap as possible open for next year and keep him on a deal that's attractive enough in trade to at least be salary filler.

[vincecarter4pres]

Is it going to come down to who is more petty (in drawing out the time to match)? Hawks (re T Hardaway) or Wiz?

no it isnt, because the hawks wont even consider matching that terrible offer sheet

Yep you're right - the more I think about it the more I wonder who the Nets' competition for KCP will be, apart from the Lakers' 1 year offer. He reportedly refused the Pistons $16 m x five years offer but the market has dramatically changed since then

Yeah, George Hill turned down a monster offer from the Jazz last year and wound up getting 50 something over 3.

The most I see KCP getting is what Hardaway just got, or maybe what Crabbe got. That's like the high end imho.