2017 Nets Offseason Thread II

[moonpie]

4/68 might be the sweet spot IMO. Give him an opt out after the 3rd year if needed + that's one million more per year on average than what the Pistons max offer was. Ideally though, 4/60 or 3/45 would be preferable

[Hello Brooklyn]

I would do 3 years for 45.

If he doesn't like it he can go to LA for 20 million for a year.

Makes way more sense to take our deal though. The market will be worse next year and the free agents class will be way better.

[imanshar]

Anything more than 15m per year is a mistake

[NyCeEvO]

I have a feeling the Nets will promise him around 4/80 if the Wizards match Porter.

I don't think anyone will go over the THJ deal. Could be wrong, but don't see a big bidding war because teams don't have much room.

You're probably right, I just have a bad gut feeling that Marks may get a little too excited that's all lol.

If Marks likes a player, he's shown that he's willing to overpay a bit to get them. I think (or really, hope) he does this because he believes the player will be much better than whatever asset he gave up or amount he spent to acquire them.

He probably reached a bit for Levert. But because Levert looks like a top 10 player from his draft class, getting him at the 20th pick doesn't mean much to us.

He gave Whitehead a guaranteed contract when he didn't need to. (I'm sure this had to do with some combination of Marks extending good will and Yormarket wanting a local Brooklyn product to promote.)

The offer sheets to Crabbe and OPJ are legit overpays IMO and should've never been given. Considering that the Nets had a closeup look at DMo, I'm ultimately glad we didn't pay him because he's not valuable anymore. TJ's contract was the only one I am completely fine with.

Given this history, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him give KCP 4yr/$80mil since it's $26mil less than he was already willing to commit to OPJ. Obviously, it would be great if he didn't give up that much.

[Prokorov]

I was very anti-KCP but now that his price is probably 16-18M my stance has softened. I still don't see the fit. I really think LeVert is a 2 not a 3 and I don't think KCP can really play the 3 much at all. We do need young talent and he is easily the best available and now at a reasonable price, so maybe its ok.

I've never been Anti-KCP.... i've only been "anti Max deals to role players"

As far as fit i dont see how you can get a much better one. a player under 25, athletic, unselfish, hard worker, 2-way guy, shoots it well from 3 on high volume. whats not to like?

as far as whether leverts a 2 or a 3 not sure it matters much. i agree i like levert better at SG but i think they can play together and switch interchangably. and if they cant you make levert a super sub

[NyCeEvO]

KCP stats filtered in games with at least 35 minutes played (35 games):

17.5 PPG
3.8 RPG
2.9 APG
1.5 SPG
42.0% FG (avg 14.5 attempts per)
36.4% 3PT (avg 7.2 attempts per)
83.5% FT (avg 3.1 attempts per)
54.9% TS%
1.1 turnovers
38.3 minutes per game

Like I said, he would be considered much better if he simply improved as a shooter and/or had better shot selection.

I guess in the games where he gets big minutes, he thinks he's Steph Curry with those 7.2 3PA.

I think Kenny would get him to calm down and see that he can be so much better if he just played a bit smarter.

[moonpie]

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[Prokorov]

20 a season is still too high for my liking. He's unrestricted and no one out there is going to give him that kind of coin.

LAL wants to give him 17 for one season.

Marks needs to swoop in here and get a 3 or 4 year deal at like 13 to 15 per. Keep as much cap as possible open for next year and keep him on a deal that's attractive enough in trade to at least be salary filler.

20 is the highest i can go before it enduces vomiting. i like a deal 15-20 million. thats his market value.

if the lakers offer 17 im happy with a 4 year deal at 17M per. thats less then THJ just got. 4/68 is a very solid deal for KCP

[NyCeEvO]

Only problem I have with Kcp is he shot 39% on the court, not so good. This move makes J.lin expendable, I won't be surprised to see him traded by the trade deadline.

I don't think it makes Lin expendable. As Marks said, we're in talent acquisition mode. We need help everywhere. We're in no position to think that we've overloaded with talent at any position.

I agree with Prok who says that we're not 2-deep at any position. Even our best young players still have a long way to go before being good positive players for the entire duration of their playing time.

[Prokorov]

I would do 3 years for 45.

If he doesn't like it he can go to LA for 20 million for a year.

Makes way more sense to take our deal though. The market will be worse next year and the free agents class will be way better.

i really doesnt make any sense to take 3/45 over 1/20.... if he took the lakers deal he would just need to get 2/25 to recoup what he would have got from the nets. not to mention, he would have another year of service for higher raises.

if KCP only gets 3/45 he is smart to take a 1 year deal to get his value up.

[DarkXaero]

Anything more than 15m per year is a mistake

Agreed. I'm fine with signing KCP to a 1 or even 2 year deal where we overpay. But if it's a deal over 2 years then I don't want us to go over $15 mill/season. Maybe a 3 year deal with the third year partially guaranteed or team option.

IMO, KCP hasn't proven much in this league. He hasn't shown himself to be a good starter, unlike Porter. He's wildly inconsistent, inefficient, below average in pretty much every statistical category. He's also only 6'5" so too undersized for SF. The only thing he has going for him is solid defense and ability to hit 3s. But you don't pay crazy money for an inefficient 3&D player. Not to mention there's the recent DUI which is a worry. Granted he's still young and can improve coming out of a bad roster situation, but I don't see that as a sure thing at all.

The guy has no leverage right now. We don't have to overpay anymore since he's not a RFA. We don't have to worry about other teams making big offers because most of the league is done with big money FA signings. Even the Lakers have to worry about cap flexibility in next FA so they won't offer more than a 1 year deal. The Hawks, Sixers, Pacers, Kings, Knicks are all out of the picture (correct me if I'm wrong). So I hope Marks plays this smart and takes advantage of KCP having no leverage.

[Paradise]

Anything more than 15m per year is a mistake

Agreed. I'm fine with signing KCP to a 1 or even 2 year deal where we overpay. But if it's a deal over 2 years then I don't want us to go over $15 mill/season. Maybe a 3 year deal with the third year partially guaranteed or team option.

IMO, KCP hasn't proven much in this league. He hasn't shown himself to be a good starter, unlike Porter. He's wildly inconsistent, inefficient, below average in pretty much every statistical category. He's also only 6'5" so too undersized for SF. The only thing he has going for him is solid defense and ability to hit 3s. But you don't pay crazy money for an inefficient 3&D player. Not to mention there's the recent DUI which is a worry. Granted he's still young and can improve coming out of a bad roster situation, but I don't see that as a sure thing at all.

The guy has no leverage right now. We don't have to overpay anymore since he's not a RFA. We don't have to worry about other teams making big offers because most of the league is done with big money FA signings. Even the Lakers have to worry about cap flexibility in next FA so they won't offer more than a 1 year deal. The Hawks, Sixers, Pacers, Kings, Knicks are all out of the picture (correct me if I'm wrong). So I hope Marks plays this smart and takes advantage of KCP having no leverage.

Rich Paul is the LeBron James of agencies. Marks will have his work cut out for him if he really values KCP's upside under Kenny.


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[NyCeEvO]

He can defend and hit threes. How would that be a bust?

KCP is better than all five of those players....not sure I follow you?

Wait, aren't you president and CEO of DON"T SPEND A DAMN DIME?

He can defend but is not outstanding at it. He can hit threes but is 33% career, which is worse than Skil and Harris. If we got KCP at $8m/year, then no biggie, except for the playing time for the other players. Basically, I'm saying KCP would be a bust if we pay more than $10m for him.

But if we pay $17m+ for a mediocre KCP AND take away developmental playing time for the others, I just don't understand how it's consistent with the focus on development.

I'm the president, but I'm a pragmatist if the Nets are going to spend, i'd rather they do it on a guy that can fit in. KCP has the tools to fit in. He's better than pretty much every other guard outside of Russell/LeVert (who are more skilled than he is). we need two way players.

KCP is 23/24, we'd be developing him too.

Either I'm a co-president, prime minister, or I'm going to find some unethical things you did with the Russians and Proky in order to get you impeached.

But yeah, I agree with your statement wholeheartedly.

[DarkXaero]

Anything more than 15m per year is a mistake

Agreed. I'm fine with signing KCP to a 1 or even 2 year deal where we overpay. But if it's a deal over 2 years then I don't want us to go over $15 mill/season. Maybe a 3 year deal with the third year partially guaranteed or team option.

IMO, KCP hasn't proven much in this league. He hasn't shown himself to be a good starter, unlike Porter. He's wildly inconsistent, inefficient, below average in pretty much every statistical category. He's also only 6'5" so too undersized for SF. The only thing he has going for him is solid defense and ability to hit 3s. But you don't pay crazy money for an inefficient 3&D player. Not to mention there's the recent DUI which is a worry. Granted he's still young and can improve coming out of a bad roster situation, but I don't see that as a sure thing at all.

The guy has no leverage right now. We don't have to overpay anymore since he's not a RFA. We don't have to worry about other teams making big offers because most of the league is done with big money FA signings. Even the Lakers have to worry about cap flexibility in next FA so they won't offer more than a 1 year deal. The Hawks, Sixers, Pacers, Kings, Knicks are all out of the picture (correct me if I'm wrong). So I hope Marks plays this smart and takes advantage of KCP having no leverage.

Rich Paul is the LeBron James of agencies. Marks will have his work cut out for him if he really values KCP's upside under Kenny.


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Rich Paul, as good an agent he might be for his players, has to look at the market right now and be realistic. If Nets make an offer, we're highly likely to be his best option. What's his alternative going to be? Even if Lakers offer a 1 year $20+ million deal, we can easily match that.

[brook]

You give a 1 year deal to a veteran, not to a 24 year old talent.
I'm not a fan of Kcp and I really hope we don't overpay him, but 1 year deal? We need young talent to develop for future and also we need those talents to grow up together. What a reason we have to offer a 1 year deal? To win maybe 2 games more?

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[Prokorov]

KCP stats filtered in games with at least 35 minutes played (35 games):

17.5 PPG
3.8 RPG
2.9 APG
1.5 SPG
42.0% FG (avg 14.5 attempts per)
36.4% 3PT (avg 7.2 attempts per)
83.5% FT (avg 3.1 attempts per)
54.9% TS%
1.1 turnovers
38.3 minutes per game

Like I said, he would be considered much better if he simply improved as a shooter and/or had better shot selection.

I guess in the games where he gets big minutes, he thinks he's Steph Curry with those 7.2 3PA.

I think Kenny would get him to calm down and see that he can be so much better if he just played a bit smarter.

Yeah... with all the info we have now i still dont get why people think Allen Crabbe is some elite three point shooter and KCP is some weak shooter.

If KCP took 97% of his threes on catch and shoot like crabbe instead of 78% and took 3 attempts a game instead of 6 his percentage would be MUCH higher...

and this isnt just all speculation...on catch an shoot corner threes KCP shot 46.7%

on the nets he wont be the primary ball handler. maybe not one of the top 2-3 ball handlers (lin, Dlo, levert). he will likely have alot fewer off the dribble threes (we take very few as a team outside of lin transition pull ups) and more on the catch. he could easily see his 3 point percentage go to 37-38+ just by taking fewer 3's off the dribble.

Another thing... detroit is AWFUL at developing talent. drummond, Harris, Johnson, KCP... none of those guys improved under SVG. i think we could get alot more out of him then detroit did

[moonpie]

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I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Mickey

[DarkXaero]

You give a 1 year deal to a veteran, not to a 24 year old talent.
I'm not a fan of Kcp and I really hope we don't overpay him, but 1 year deal? We need young talent to develop for future and also we need those talents to grow up together. What a reason we have to offer a 1 year deal? To win maybe 2 games more?

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No one's saying that we can't sign him after the 1 year deal. We'll still have cap space next offseason.

[Papi_swav]

We shouldn't go any more than 16.5M per year, we would be bidding against ourselves. Lakers might be the only team willing to give him more but only for 1 year it will be. Sucks to be in KCP shoes now, I'm pretty sure he thought he would be getting 20 plus a year.

[NyCeEvO]

The Pistons fans were saying during the season that Pope was the only dude that gave a damn while the others dogged it. That's all I need to hear.

Being hardworking is fine when you make $3m. You need to show more than just effort for big money.

you make it seem like this guy is a scrub...I think he'd work out for us especially if its below max. He's a good player, but def needs to improve.

Yeah, $8mil is what I'd expect for him in the pre-cap spike era. Kyle Korver just got a 3yr/$22mil deal at the age of 36 despite being a 3pt shooter and nothing else. Unfortunately, he hasn't been the same defensively since that Dellavedova leg tackle.