Fultz vs. Tatum: What do you think now?

Post #121 » by **Slartibartfast** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:18 pm

meatball sub wrote:Fultz hasn't been able to finish at the rim in summer league the way he did in college. Not a good look considering the athleticism looks to be overrated as some here predicted before the draft. The dude can shoot & score, no doubt. Great spin & hesitation moves -- underrated passer from what I've seen in these first two games.

But without that ability to finish at the rim he's not going to be nearly as dynamic a scorer as projected. Not to mention his dribble is sloppy so he's going to be a turnover machine when he plays against real NBA players every night.

And then the defense. It's terrible & he doesn't even look like he's giving effort most of the time on that end of the floor.

Glad he have Tatum & the Laker pick.

I think his finishing at the rim looks about the same as it did at UW - solid with room for growth. He gets great extension and he can finish left or right and he can absorb contact. His problem is he can't just dunk over people and he needs to improve his decision making on when to fling up some wild english off the glass or drop it off to the big.

The more important concern with Fultz was whether he could get to the rim without being that explosive and so far he's had little problem.

The defense is gonna be ugly for awhile.

sam_I_am · Post #122 » by **sam_I_am** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:30 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:Upon review -- a number of his Spurs highlights would be harder in real games. There was that one mid-range ISO score where another defender just kept his back to Tatum rather than helping. In a real game, that might have turned into a quick double-team he had to pass out of.

Also, those swooping straight-line layups might be harder against good rim protectors. Has he shown enough wiggle on his drives to overcome that?

No question he'll have to adapt as he progresses. Against an elite defender like Leonard - what will work and what won't?

What is obvious though is that he has a full bag of tricks to choose from to get his shot off and his shots have a very good chance of going in.

I'd like to see him catch and shoot and keep the ball moving better. I'd like to see him move better without the ball. I think Brad will have an easier time teaching him that than he did trying to get Marcus to shoot the 3.

meatball sub · Post #123 » by **meatball sub** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:59 pm

Other than his scoring, Tatum's rebounding has been on point. He'll definitely be able to play the 4 once he adds 15-20 lbs.

sam_I_am · Post #124 » by **sam_I_am** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:27 pm

Magic Johnson weighs in on Ainge trading down ......

Watch on YouTube

Fidel Sarcasmo · Post #125 » by **Fidel Sarcasmo** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:33 pm

I'm gonna punt on all options. I've learned over the years of playing talent evaluator that I have no talent. This year, I attempted to do the same thing like all previous years and I came out with my guy in Fultz. DA felt differently. he went in a different direction and that's that. Will he be proven correct down the line? Probably. Will I attempt to play talent evaluator again next draft? Likely. Will I know what I'm doing? No

chrisab123 · Post #126 » by **chrisab123** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:34 pm

It's been 3 summer league games. I personally still think Fultz is the better player but Tatum was my preferred choice at 3.

FlatearthZorro · Post #127 » by **FlatearthZorro** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:39 pm

chrisab123 wrote:It's been 3 summer league games. I personally still think Fultz is the better player but Tatum was my preferred choice at 3.

I guess you see beyond basketball cause Tatum has been better at everything basically. Just to confirm that Tatum is so far #1 in every Rookier Ladder on any site that covers the NBA(and of couse on nba.com). I guess you understand b-ball more than these guys. Or you're just looking for something negative to say cause that's all you do. You must be fun at parties.

sam_I_am · Post #128 » by **sam_I_am** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:41 pm

chrisab123 wrote:It's been 3 summer league games. I personally still think Fultz is the better player but Tatum was my preferred choice at 3.

Do you think he is more than a lottery pick better?

Red2 · Post #129 » by **Red2** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:05 pm

Tatum looks like a very solid player. Fultz looks like he has the talent to be a superstar . Whether he gets there or not is another question . I think Fultz has more upside but that Tatum fits our plan better which is to have 4-5 guys who are interchangeable and can switch on everything and can all score etc

Red2 · Post #130 » by **Red2** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:06 pm

By the way D'aaron Fox might be the best player in this draft . Love that kid

chrisab123 · Post #131 » by **chrisab123** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:09 pm

Boston34Bg wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:It's been 3 summer league games. I personally still think Fultz is the better player but Tatum was my preferred choice at 3.

I guess you see beyond basketball cause Tatum has been better at everything basically. Just to confirm that Tatum is so far #1 in every Rookier Ladder on any site that covers the NBA(and of couse on nba.com). I guess you understand b-ball more than these guys. Or you're just looking for something negative to say cause that's all you do. You must be fun at parties.

Its summer league. It's a glorified exhibition. I put more stock in college stats than 3 summer league games. He's looked good so far but let's hold off on saying he's better than Fultz. On July 4th Bam Adebayo was number 1 on that list. Would you have taken him over Fultz?

chrisab123 · Post #132 » by **chrisab123** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:12 pm

sam_I_am wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:It's been 3 summer league games. I personally still think Fultz is the better player but Tatum was my preferred choice at 3.

Do you think he is more than a lottery pick better?

I don't know. It's difficult to say after 3 summer league games. If he turns out as say a Gordon Hayward level star and Fultz becomes the next Harden then obviously in a superstar league the Sixers got the better end but it's not a bad misfire.

winsomme2 · Post #133 » by **winsomme2** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:33 pm

I think Fultz is pretty clearly the better prospect, but the question now is by how much. Is he enough better that the extra pick can't balance it out?

Personally, I don't think the LAL are going to be top 5 worst this year and thus we'll get SACs pick in 2019. To me that pick will be around 8-10, and those picks are a total crapshoot and thus not worth the risk of missing out on Fultz' potential as a franchise talent.

Also, if Hayward was our main target, positionally speaking, Tatum just is not going to see much playing time. AND we need ballhandlers - which Fultz is elite at.

Overall, the trade doesn't make much sense to me. And what has unfolded in terms of moves (GH, Bradley trade, etc) and performance (Fultz has looked like the real deal) have only confirmed that observation.

MrClass · Post #134 » by **MrClass** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:40 pm

winsomme2 wrote:I think Fultz is pretty clearly the better prospect, but the question now is by how much. Is he enough better that the extra pick can't balance it out?

Personally, I don't think the LAL are going to be top 5 worst this year and thus we'll get SACs pick in 2019. To me that pick will be around 8-10, and those picks are a total crapshoot and thus not worth the risk of missing out on Fultz' potential as a franchise talent.

Also, if Hayward was our main target, positionally speaking, Tatum just is not going to see much playing time. AND we need ballhandlers - which Fultz is elite at.

Overall, the trade doesn't make much sense to me. And what has unfolded in terms of moves (GH, Bradley trade, etc) and performance (Fultz has looked like the real deal) have only confirmed that observation.

WTF are you talkin about?
where?
which performance?

pasfru · Post #135 » by **pasfru** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:55 pm

They don't look too far out as prospects. The fact that it's even a question right now of who's better, not just among Celtics fans, but NBA fans in general, means they could be closer than a lot of us originally thought.

It's only Summer League and a lot can change, but I'm already starting to feel better about the trade.

TM_ · Post #136 » by **TM_** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 3:55 pm

i disliked the trade at first, now i love it. Guess thats why Ainge is the GM and im not haha

AlCelticFan · Post #137 » by **AlCelticFan** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 4:06 pm

That extra Lakers/Kings pick is not chump change.

Post #138 » by **Slartibartfast** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 4:10 pm

Fruit Pastilles wrote:They don't look too far out as prospects. The fact that it's even a question right now of who's better, not just among Celtics fans, but NBA fans in general, means they could be closer than a lot of us originally thought.

It's only Summer League and a lot can change, but I'm already starting to feel better about the trade.

NBA fans in general tend to be knee-jerky in the extreme about this.

I don't see how any of the facts on the ground have changed. Tatum is still a mid-range scoring match-up assassin who struggles to create from behind the 3-point line and lacks the weight/power to thrive in the paint. Fultz is still a ridiculous PNR dynamo who struggles on D.

These guys have both been almost exactly as advertised in SL.

Compare their per 40s in SL to college. In college Tatum was 20/9/3 with 45/34 shooting splits. In SL he's been putting up 23/12/2 on 47/22 splits.

In college Fultz was 26/6/7 on 48/41 splits. In SL he's been putting up 33/6/5 on 47/46 splits.

The main reason Fultz did and still does project as a better NBA player for most analysts is still the same - Tatum's specialties (mid-range isoing and posting up) are lower volume, lower efficiency play types in the modern NBA than Fultz specialties' - PNR scoring and playmaking.

chrisab123 · Post #139 » by **chrisab123** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 4:23 pm

AlCelticFan wrote:That extra Lakers/Kings pick is not chump change.

No. Its not chump change at all. But say Tatum is a cut below an elite player and the Lakers/Kings pick becomes someone on Tatums level or slightly lesser. Also Fultz reaches his potential. Then the deal by todays NBA standards would become a slight failure. As someone in this thread mentioned in the NBA 4 quarters doesn't equal a dollar. You need stars. Heres the thing I like Tatum a lot. I think he's probably going to end up as the 2nd or 3rd best player out of this draft. I think Fultz will be the best but it depends by how much and who the Celtics get with that other pick.

winsomme2 · Post #140 » by **winsomme2** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 6:54 pm

MrClass wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:I think Fultz is pretty clearly the better prospect, but the question now is by how much. Is he enough better that the extra pick can't balance it out?

Personally, I don't think the LAL are going to be top 5 worst this year and thus we'll get SACs pick in 2019. To me that pick will be around 8-10, and those picks are a total crapshoot and thus not worth the risk of missing out on Fultz' potential as a franchise talent.

Also, if Hayward was our main target, positionally speaking, Tatum just is not going to see much playing time. AND we need ballhandlers - which Fultz is elite at.

Overall, the trade doesn't make much sense to me. And what has unfolded in terms of moves (GH, Bradley trade, etc) and performance (Fultz has looked like the real deal) have only confirmed that observation.

WTF are you talkin about?
where?
which performance?

My observation has been that Fultz is moving about the court with ease. Tatum is getting very little separation which only lessen with NBA players guarding him.

Scoring with the ball in your hands is all about gaining separation from your defender and so far Fultz has been doing that with much more ease.

Tatum vs. Fultz: What do you think now?