Brice Johnson

[Roscoe Sheed]

I know it is just summer league, but I think his skill set can help the clippers this season. His turn around jumper reminds me of Rasheed Wallace. He also has decent length and athleticism. I think he should be the primary backup for Griffin

[Neddy]

as soon as we can ditch doc, sooner Brice can actually help this team.

[nickhx2]

i'm interested in seeing how brice will do for us. it's unfortunate i keep forgetting he's on the team.

[Clemenza]

Doc's has to change his philosophy and blend some younger players into the mix. Brice and Thornwell are ready to go and maybe Juwan Evans down the line.

[esqtvd]

Doc's has to change his philosophy and blend some younger players into the mix. Brice and Thornwell are ready to go and maybe Juwan Evans down the line.

Think about it this way---It's offensive to veterans who chose to play for the Clippers at the league minimum to give PT to kids who haven't earned it.

IIRC, Ray Felton had a higher VORP than any rookie in the league last year. This is the equation, not throwing valuable NBA minutes at fetuses when you're trying to win games and higher playoff seeding.

[Clemenza]

Doc's has to change his philosophy and blend some younger players into the mix. Brice and Thornwell are ready to go and maybe Juwan Evans down the line.

Think about it this way---It's offensive to veterans who chose to play for the Clippers at the league minimum to give PT to kids who haven't earned it.

IIRC, Ray Felton had a higher VORP than any rookie in the league last year. This is the equation, not throwing valuable NBA minutes at fetuses when you're trying to win games and higher playoff seeding.

Forget these washed up vets who bring nothing to the table year in and year out.. I say play the youngsters. Put it this way,we're not getting a higher playoff seeding if where depending on a Ray Felton or Paul Pierce lets keep it real. The old minimum vets guys are just there for the paycheck- They're not advancing the franchise one bit. Doc inherited the core and hasn't put jack sh*t around them since he's gotten here. Hedo Turkalou, Paul Pierce, Ray Felton, Antwan Jamison, Udoh, Big Baby, etc. All these moves we made this off season is all Jerry West and its obvious to see. Its like night n day. Lets develop some some kids to go along with Blake, DJ, Gallo and its helps the team long term not to mention they'll be on cheaper rookie deals.

[og15]

The only problem for Johnson is that Harrell is the other option at backup PF, and he's pretty good

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[Roscoe Sheed]

The only problem for Johnson is that Harrell is the other option at backup PF, and he's pretty good

Sent from my LG-D852 using RealGM mobile app

However, there is no center on the roster except for DJ. Maybe both Harrell and Brice can play

[esqtvd]

Doc's has to change his philosophy and blend some younger players into the mix. Brice and Thornwell are ready to go and maybe Juwan Evans down the line.

Think about it this way---It's offensive to veterans who chose to play for the Clippers at the league minimum to give PT to kids who haven't earned it.

IIRC, Ray Felton had a higher VORP than any rookie in the league last year. This is the equation, not throwing valuable NBA minutes at fetuses when you're trying to win games and higher playoff seeding.

Forget these washed up vets who bring nothing to the table year in and year out.. I say play the youngsters. Put it this way,we're not getting a higher playoff seeding if where depending on a Ray Felton or Paul Pierce lets keep it real. The old minimum vets guys are just there for the paycheck- They're not advancing the franchise one bit. Doc inherited the core and hasn't put jack sh*t around them since he's gotten here. Hedo Turkalou, Paul Pierce, Ray Felton, Antwan Jamison, Udoh, Big Baby, etc. All these moves we made this off season is all Jerry West and its obvious to see. Its like night n day. Lets develop some some kids to go along with Blake, DJ, Gallo and its helps the team long term not to mention they'll be on cheaper rookie deals.

The problem is, it takes a lot of them 2-3 years to get good, and then you have to start paying them real money. There's no cheap solution. Look at all the PT the Sixers invested in Jerami Grant, Noelle Noel and Emeka Okafor. They're still meh.

[MartinToVaught]

Think about it this way---It's offensive to veterans who chose to play for the Clippers at the league minimum to give PT to kids who haven't earned it.

If they're taking the minimum to play for a non-contender, that generally means their value is at rock bottom and they need to earn their playing time just as much.

IIRC, Ray Felton had a higher VORP than any rookie in the league last year. This is the equation, not throwing valuable NBA minutes at fetuses when you're trying to win games and higher playoff seeding.

The good organizations can do both: win and develop talent. In a salary-capped league, it's a huge competitive advantage to have young talent vastly outperforming what they're getting paid. They can also be useful down the line as trade assets. They aren't all going to be superstars, but they don't all have to be. Guys like Clint Capela or Norm Powell are still valuable as role players. They sure beat relying on washed-up Pierce and Jamal.

[esqtvd]

they earned their PT
not what I'm talking about

Capela paid heavy dues--Euro-League, D-League

http://gleague.nba.com/news/clint-capela-houston-rockets-james-harden-feature-050117/

Now with our own D-League team and the 17-man roster, we can do some of that

[esqtvd]

Brice was punked bad in the post against real PFs in Game #2, vs Utah. He tried to post up and they pushed him right back out of the paint, which resulted in a couple turnovers.

I like him but I don't know what he is. He spends a lot of time watching.

[og15]

Think about it this way---It's offensive to veterans who chose to play for the Clippers at the league minimum to give PT to kids who haven't earned it.

IIRC, Ray Felton had a higher VORP than any rookie in the league last year. This is the equation, not throwing valuable NBA minutes at fetuses when you're trying to win games and higher playoff seeding.

Forget these washed up vets who bring nothing to the table year in and year out.. I say play the youngsters. Put it this way,we're not getting a higher playoff seeding if where depending on a Ray Felton or Paul Pierce lets keep it real. The old minimum vets guys are just there for the paycheck- They're not advancing the franchise one bit. Doc inherited the core and hasn't put jack sh*t around them since he's gotten here. Hedo Turkalou, Paul Pierce, Ray Felton, Antwan Jamison, Udoh, Big Baby, etc. All these moves we made this off season is all Jerry West and its obvious to see. Its like night n day. Lets develop some some kids to go along with Blake, DJ, Gallo and its helps the team long term not to mention they'll be on cheaper rookie deals.

The problem is, it takes a lot of them 2-3 years to get good, and then you have to start paying them real money. There's no cheap solution. Look at all the PT the Sixers invested in Jerami Grant, Noelle Noel and Emeka Okafor. They're still meh.

I don't think you meant Emeka, but yes, that is true, but there can be a window in the 2nd or 3rd year where a player is very productive compared to their contract. The second positive is that if you get an All-Star level player, you can have them on the 25% max instead of the 30% or even the 35% max depending on their accolades. This can give you a relatively cheaper star player contract.

It's about balance though. You have to mix in veterans and young players. It's a bit unrealistic when people want teams trying to get to the playoffs and be a top seed to play any young player consistent minutes no matter what.

People in 15-16 were criticizing Doc for not giving more minutes to Branden Dawson, the 56th pick. I mean we have to be serious too, not just saying things for the sake of saying them. The average player in that range doesn't even make their team and Dawson was like the only guy in that range that year to get ANY minutes. Yet there were people who all year were saying Doc is dumb and Dawson should be getting like 10 mpg. The guy isn't in the NBA anymore. So either in this case Doc saw his skills and saw no fit and didn't see him to be good enough. So if Doc was dumb for this then so every coach and front office in the league too since none of the there 29 not only passed on him, but didn't pick him up later after seeing a whole D-league season of him.

Now, that said, especially off the bench, it can be valuable to for example mix in a rookie every other game in lineups with veterans, not throwing out multiple rookies. Doc did this with Bullock but hadn't done it with a rookie since. The main reason is probably that the other options were CJ Wilcox on a team with three other SG's, and Brice Johnson who wasn't available until like February or so when the team had winning as many games as possible as a bug priority due to injuries earlier.

So yes, you can't necessarily throw out any and every rookie and not multiple weak rookies. We've seen how even a veteran poor bench can lose leads and essentially lose games in their few minutes of play, so of course, the team shouldn't throw out lineups with 2 or 3 rookies or 2nd years guys without them being for enough to be playing.

[madmaxmedia]

The good organizations can do both: win and develop talent. In a salary-capped league, it's a huge competitive advantage to have young talent vastly outperforming what they're getting paid. They can also be useful down the line as trade assets. They aren't all going to be superstars, but they don't all have to be. Guys like Clint Capela or Norm Powell are still valuable as role players. They sure beat relying on washed-up Pierce and Jamal.

There are basically 3 realistic ways of getting significantly better than average ROI on your payroll-

1. AAA superstars that are actually worth more than their max contracts
2. Ring chaser vets
3. Productive rookie scale players

You can always make your pitch to Lebron or KD, but chances of #1 are slim. Ring chaser vets are nice but generally have short shelf life, they are generally guys who are near the end of their primes that already made their main dough in the league.

If you don't actually play your rookie-scale players (or constantly trade away draft picks), then you'll never benefit from #3, and never efficiently rebuild your roster as other players age or leave via FA.

But we all know this already. Someone just needs to explain to Doc (probably Jerry has!!)

[madmaxmedia]

So yes, you can't necessarily throw out any and every rookie and not multiple weak rookies. We've seen how even a veteran poor bench can lose leads and essentially lose games in their few minutes of play, so of course, the team shouldn't throw out lineups with 2 or 3 rookies or 2nd years guys without them being for enough to be playing.

Yeah, I think the thing with Doc is not just the PT for young players (which not all deserve just because they're young!), but the overall strategy of how to manage and develop a roster over time.

What I saw in Doc was a marked preference for short term at the expense of long term, for wearing the coach's hat instead of the front office hat. And then with the picks we did have, picking guys that he thought could help now (at the expense of possible long-term upside) and then discarding them when they didn't pan out.

But Jerry West was honestly the perfect antidote to this IMO, and as long as Doc is willing to see the other side I am fine with having them as a team.

[madmaxmedia]

Somewhere there is a nightmare alternative (and capped-out) reality where we lose both Blake and CP3 to free agency, and without West's guidance end up with Millsap and Jeff Teague in costly sign-and-trades to try to make up for losing them.

[UKClipperfan]

Dude's got more size than I thought he had. He's got the body type to be a good defender, and the makings of a consistent shot, if he can be a poor man's Ibaka then that's a win.

[mkwest]

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[Neddy]

so while Blake is still recovering, what is our most likely rotation?
the depth chart would look something like this.

MIlos - Austin - Evans
Beverly-Lou - Thornwell
Wes - Dekker - Liggins
Gallinari -Brice - Wiltjer
DJ - Harrell

Brice will get some minutes every night until Blake returns for sure.

[Neddy]

knowing who doc is, he will start Beverly-Austin-Wes-Gallinari-DJ

with Milos-Lou-Dekker-Brice coming off the bench. Harrell will get some minutes here and there.