Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 3: #TheTimeline

[Preacherpj]

I hate Len. But given the terrible play of Bender and Chriss so far in summer league, I think we have to keep him.

I mean...Len's pretty bad, but he'd surely outperform what Chriss and Bender have been doing. Right? Right????

First, is two games of Summer League play really an indication of anything. Yes, some players are outperforming other players but its way to early to give up on Chriss and Bender and think Alex Len is the answer

If you are going to have young guys play - they have learn, and screw up. That doesn't mean, I am giving them minutes just because but I think its early to say Len is the answer

Not calling him a bust or anything like that; but the issues he's had aren't ones that great players usually struggle with. Like I said earlier, if he was just bricking shots it would be one thing, but he's barely hustling, there are possessions after he turns the ball over that he hardly makes it back across HC before the other team scores.

His body language is bad, he's turning it over relentlessly, fouling everybody, jacking up 3s......... its a very bad look against very marginal competition. I think we all expected him in his second SL to take a step forward (ANYONE REMEMBER HOW BOOKER LOOKED IN HIS SECOND SL???) that was a dude who clearly was primed for takeoff. Chriss - in a small sample size - looks frankly awful; and his lack of energy/focus is inexcusable for a guy Phoenix is hoping to build around.

I think a person can easily blow SL out of proportion and how he's played through the first two games could just be an aberration, maybe he's battling the plague and hasn't been sleeping... but there's no doubt in my mind if he had come out and dominated, posterized people, grabbed 15 RPG -- people would be salivating, I don't see any issue with talking about how poor he's looked. We all want him to be a stud.

[bwgood77]

I hate Len. But given the terrible play of Bender and Chriss so far in summer league, I think we have to keep him.

I mean...Len's pretty bad, but he'd surely outperform what Chriss and Bender have been doing. Right? Right????

I don't think Bender played poorly in game 2. The arc on Dragan's shot is a problem, but he plays good defense and doesn't hurt us. He's just not going to carry us offensively and still needs to improve on that end in order to be effective. JJ can only do so much at this point in his development. DJJ's a good role player. But that leaves James and Chriss as our primary offense.

It's clear that we need more ball movement. I don't think JJ's ready, but if anyone's going to rescue us from Chriss, it's going to be JJ. Bender I'm happy to be patient with. But something's not right with Marquese atm.

His defense didn't look great. For a guy who is supposed to guard possibly five positions on the court he got beat consistantly by DSJ. And beat badly.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Well so did everyone, including JJ. A guy like Bender is going to have trouble guarding quick point guards. He is good at switching onto wings and disrupting the flow of the opposing offense with his agility and length. I mean he did provide quite a bit on the floor given our team only lost by 2 when he was on the floor. All the other starters who played over 30 minutes had +/-'s in the negative double digits.

[Kjdills13]

We must not trade any young guys for established players. All of them will be all stars and we will be the warriors...

[Zelaznyrules]

We must not trade or any young guys for established players. All of them will be all stars and we will be the warriors...

You keep doing this but you're missing the reason most of us have disagreed with most of your trade suggestions. We have a bunch of young guys that are nowhere close to their peak. We have no idea what they can become but right now, they have more untapped potential than they have value as trade chips. If you come up with a plan to trade away most of our young guys for established, talented players you might get some interest. But you can't swap out one young guy for a 30 year old and expect us to like it, it just leaves us in no man's land because we'll still have half a dozen young players that need playing time in order to develop. We either need to try and win now or we need to develop our youth. It would be a different story if we just had 1 or 2 kids but we don't.

[BobbieL]

We must not trade or any young guys for established players. All of them will be all stars and we will be the warriors...

You keep doing this but you're missing the reason most of us have disagreed with most of your trade suggestions. We have a bunch of young guys that are nowhere close to their peak. We have no idea what they can become but right now, they have more untapped potential than they have value as trade chips. If you come up with a plan to trade away most of our young guys for established, talented players you might get some interest. But you can't swap out one young guy for a 30 year old and expect us to like it, it just leaves us in no man's land because we'll still have half a dozen young players that need playing time in order to develop. We either need to try and win now or we need to develop our youth. It would be a different story if we just had 1 or 2 kids but we don't.

Before I knew the Suns were getting Josh Jackson - when it was just the 4th pick - I was okay trading that pick - but for Porzingis. Not Love, not Millsap.

But I like Jackson. A lot! So, I won't say they are untouchables but it has to be for the right player, right contract, right #TheTimeline, all of that. So, more than likely, I am not okay trading Booker, Chriss, Benders, JJack, or the Suns pick in 2018

Now, if the Suns got Love - as in the 4 team trade I came up with earlier, that only costs Tyson, Knight and possibly the Heat pick - that might be okay as Love's contract fits the Timeline. Granted, would he take too many minutes away - I don't think so. But its not going to happen so I am good with that

And one thing, about the Warriors as they seem to be the model and rightly so. There was a point where they did make a trade - it was Monta Ellis for Bogut. It allowed them to get a big man while paving the way for Klay and Curry to be the starters.

Also, they dumped Biedrins, Rush and two first rounders on Utah to sign Iguodala. So for the Suns, still acquiring assets for 2019 draft or another pick in the 2018 - may not be the worst thing either if a trade is made to keep getting picks and young players that you might need to move in a year or two ( to attach to deals, Peters, Derricks Jones Jr)

[Zelaznyrules]

We must not trade or any young guys for established players. All of them will be all stars and we will be the warriors...

You keep doing this but you're missing the reason most of us have disagreed with most of your trade suggestions. We have a bunch of young guys that are nowhere close to their peak. We have no idea what they can become but right now, they have more untapped potential than they have value as trade chips. If you come up with a plan to trade away most of our young guys for established, talented players you might get some interest. But you can't swap out one young guy for a 30 year old and expect us to like it, it just leaves us in no man's land because we'll still have half a dozen young players that need playing time in order to develop. We either need to try and win now or we need to develop our youth. It would be a different story if we just had 1 or 2 kids but we don't.

Before I knew the Suns were getting Josh Jackson - when it was just the 4th pick - I was okay trading that pick - but for Porzingis. Not Love, not Millsap.

But I like Jackson. A lot! So, I won't say they are untouchables but it has to be for the right player, right contract, right #TheTimeline, all of that. So, more than likely, I am not okay trading Booker, Chriss, Benders, JJack, or the Suns pick in 2018

Now, if the Suns got Love - as in the 4 team trade I came up with earlier, that only costs Tyson, Knight and possibly the Heat pick - that might be okay as Love's contract fits the Timeline. Granted, would he take too many minutes away - I don't think so. But its not going to happen so I am good with that

And one thing, about the Warriors as they seem to be the model and rightly so. There was a point where they did make a trade - it was Monta Ellis for Bogut. It allowed them to get a big man while paving the way for Klay and Curry to be the starters.

Also, they dumped Biedrins, Rush and two first rounders on Utah to sign Iguodala. So for the Suns, still acquiring assets for 2019 draft or another pick in the 2018 - may not be the worst thing either if a trade is made to keep getting picks and young players that you might need to move in a year or two ( to attach to deals, Peters, Derricks Jones Jr)

It isn't just a case of taking away minutes, directly. If we traded for someone like Love we'd be almost forced to try and win now (not doing so would reduce his trade and playing value which makes no sense). That means you can't afford to let the young guys play through their mistakes.

Just look at the past two seasons, if we'd had a bunch of veterans and we were trying to win, no way could we have allowed Booker to stay out there like we did. I think he's probably 2 or 3 years away from even approaching the player we expect him to become, he'd be 5 years away if we were making him fully accountable for his performance. And other than Warren, he's our most developed young player. Ulis, Bender, Chriss and Jackson (not to mention Len if we keep him) are going to need a lot of minutes too and they are going to make a lot of mistakes along the way.

[BobbieL]

You keep doing this but you're missing the reason most of us have disagreed with most of your trade suggestions. We have a bunch of young guys that are nowhere close to their peak. We have no idea what they can become but right now, they have more untapped potential than they have value as trade chips. If you come up with a plan to trade away most of our young guys for established, talented players you might get some interest. But you can't swap out one young guy for a 30 year old and expect us to like it, it just leaves us in no man's land because we'll still have half a dozen young players that need playing time in order to develop. We either need to try and win now or we need to develop our youth. It would be a different story if we just had 1 or 2 kids but we don't.

Before I knew the Suns were getting Josh Jackson - when it was just the 4th pick - I was okay trading that pick - but for Porzingis. Not Love, not Millsap.

But I like Jackson. A lot! So, I won't say they are untouchables but it has to be for the right player, right contract, right #TheTimeline, all of that. So, more than likely, I am not okay trading Booker, Chriss, Benders, JJack, or the Suns pick in 2018

Now, if the Suns got Love - as in the 4 team trade I came up with earlier, that only costs Tyson, Knight and possibly the Heat pick - that might be okay as Love's contract fits the Timeline. Granted, would he take too many minutes away - I don't think so. But its not going to happen so I am good with that

And one thing, about the Warriors as they seem to be the model and rightly so. There was a point where they did make a trade - it was Monta Ellis for Bogut. It allowed them to get a big man while paving the way for Klay and Curry to be the starters.

Also, they dumped Biedrins, Rush and two first rounders on Utah to sign Iguodala. So for the Suns, still acquiring assets for 2019 draft or another pick in the 2018 - may not be the worst thing either if a trade is made to keep getting picks and young players that you might need to move in a year or two ( to attach to deals, Peters, Derricks Jones Jr)

It isn't just a case of taking away minutes, directly. If we traded for someone like Love we'd be almost forced to try and win now (not doing so would reduce his trade and playing value which makes no sense). That means you can't afford to let the young guys play through their mistakes.

Just look at the past two seasons, if we'd had a bunch of veterans and we were trying to win, no way could we have allowed Booker to stay out there like we did. I think he's probably 2 or 3 years away from even approaching the player we expect him to become, he'd be 5 years away if we were making him fully accountable for his performance. And other than Warren, he's our most developed young player. Ulis, Bender, Chriss and Jackson (not to mention Len if we keep him) are going to need a lot of minutes too and they are going to make a lot of mistakes along the way.

that's a great point -- the young players need to play to grow, get better, get more experienced and those will be some painful losses but they will be better for it

[rsavaj]

we got Sauce on a great deal. 538 had his value at ~4.5 mill a year, and we signed him for ~5.5 per year. that's as close to nailing it as you're gonna see in NBA free agency

[Preacherpj]

we got Sauce on a great deal. 538 had his value at ~4.5 mill a year, and we signed him for ~5.5 per year. that's as close to nailing it as you're gonna see in NBA free agency

Totally agree, dollar for dollar, that's going to be the best contract Phoenix has.

I have zero doubts about the Sauce and whether or not he's going to live up to... or exceed... that contract.

Side note......... its also really nice to have some guys on your team you genuinely enjoy cheering for. Sometimes you get stuck with talented players that are turds, and while they help your team win... you don't really like cheering for them. Sauce is the opposite of guys like Beasley, Knight and the Morrii

[BobbieL]

we got Sauce on a great deal. 538 had his value at ~4.5 mill a year, and we signed him for ~5.5 per year. that's as close to nailing it as you're gonna see in NBA free agency

Totally agree, dollar for dollar, that's going to be the best contract Phoenix has.

I have zero doubts about the Sauce and whether or not he's going to live up to... or exceed... that contract.

Side note......... its also really nice to have some guys on your team you genuinely enjoy cheering for. Sometimes you get stuck with talented players that are turds, and while they help your team win... you don't really like cheering for them. Sauce is the opposite of guys like Beasley, Knight and the Morrii

Geno Auriemma had something - and I get its college - but part of being on the UConn bench is being a good teammate. yes, he has the talent to sit a Breanna Stewart and still win a game by 50. But - his speech about teamwork, being committed, was a good one if you youtube it

Wlliams is a good teammate. Those are positive things for team. Like you said, Beasley, the Morri - not so good.

[TheFire]

we got Sauce on a great deal. 538 had his value at ~4.5 mill a year, and we signed him for ~5.5 per year. that's as close to nailing it as you're gonna see in NBA free agency

Totally agree, dollar for dollar, that's going to be the best contract Phoenix has.

I have zero doubts about the Sauce and whether or not he's going to live up to... or exceed... that contract.

Side note......... its also really nice to have some guys on your team you genuinely enjoy cheering for. Sometimes you get stuck with talented players that are turds, and while they help your team win... you don't really like cheering for them. Sauce is the opposite of guys like Beasley, Knight and the Morrii

Knight seems like a really nice guy, just a subpar NBA basketball player.

[thamadkant]

I hate Len. But given the terrible play of Bender and Chriss so far in summer league, I think we have to keep him.

I mean...Len's pretty bad, but he'd surely outperform what Chriss and Bender have been doing. Right? Right????

I don't think Bender played poorly in game 2. The arc on Dragan's shot is a problem, but he plays good defense and doesn't hurt us. He's just not going to carry us offensively and still needs to improve on that end in order to be effective. JJ can only do so much at this point in his development. DJJ's a good role player. But that leaves James and Chriss as our primary offense.

It's clear that we need more ball movement. I don't think JJ's ready, but if anyone's going to rescue us from Chriss, it's going to be JJ. Bender I'm happy to be patient with. But something's not right with Marquese atm.

Bender couldnt take advantage of a 6'5 gut guarding him down low... He couldnt back him down.

And on rebounding he still gets pushed around..


I know he shouldnt put on a lot of weight due to him needing to be mobile... But he is weak as heck at the moment. He needs to get those thighs and butt thicker than they are....

Does he even squat?? Lol

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I hate Len. But given the terrible play of Bender and Chriss so far in summer league, I think we have to keep him.

I mean...Len's pretty bad, but he'd surely outperform what Chriss and Bender have been doing. Right? Right????

I don't think Bender played poorly in game 2. The arc on Dragan's shot is a problem, but he plays good defense and doesn't hurt us. He's just not going to carry us offensively and still needs to improve on that end in order to be effective. JJ can only do so much at this point in his development. DJJ's a good role player. But that leaves James and Chriss as our primary offense.

It's clear that we need more ball movement. I don't think JJ's ready, but if anyone's going to rescue us from Chriss, it's going to be JJ. Bender I'm happy to be patient with. But something's not right with Marquese atm.

Bender couldnt take advantage of a 6'5 gut guarding him down low... He couldnt back him down.

And on rebounding he still gets pushed around..


I know he shouldnt put on a lot of weight due to him needing to be mobile... But he is weak as heck at the moment. He needs to get those thighs and butt thicker than they are....

Does he even squat?? Lol

Dragan has beat small defenders when he's had position down low. He can't back down on them with the ball from the perimeter, no: he's best off just shooting over the top out there. But close in, he has touch on his hook, and I haven't seen him get bothered by a bit of contact below the waist like I have with Alex.

[Revived]

Anyone know if there are any player or team options on Alan Williams new deal?

I hope there isn't.

[AtheJ415]

We must not trade any young guys for established players. All of them will be all stars and we will be the warriors...

Great contribution.

We must trade any young guys for older established players. All of the young guys will bust and not amount to anything. Might as well be the Clippers.

[BobbieL]

Gambo is "hearing from the people he has called " - back from vacation, from the Grand Cayman Islands - but anyway, he is hearing that Len is not getting offers so he might have to take the Suns Qualifying offer of 4.2m for one year.

I would take that deal of 4.2m for Len.

Able to buy another year with Chandler and able to see if Len improves.

[LukasBMW]

I'd take Len at the qualifying offer. I might even lock him up at 3 years 27 million (hopefully with a team option on year 3) if he'd consider it.

[BobbieL]

I'd take Len at the qualifying offer. I might even lock him up at 3 years 27 million (hopefully with a team option on year 3) if he'd consider it.

just as long as its a team option - would agree

throw him a bone

QO is 4.2m
here is two years guaranteed at say 16m, 7 and 9 but we have a team option for 11
or take the QO

your choice big fellah

[PhxLax]

We almost have to sign Len.... else another C somewhere. Would be a nice thought of Bender or Chris could man up there, but Len at a cheapity cheap deal is a reasonable move. Having Len also frees up a trade for Chandler down the road if need/opportunity arises.

Right now, I like the idea of buying out Tyson, signing Len to a reasonable 4 year deal with team options...

I have no idea what to do about BK. Would he benefit from JJ's passing at the 3? Could we move Bled and give Knight another chance? Would it matter? Would Bled return us anything worthwhile in trade? I ask all these questions knowing that McD will do what he always does and patiently carry this cluster forward into the season.

I agree about BK - either you need to move him to take on a bad deal; or move Bledsoe, make him the 1 and say "this is your team"

I know the team doesn't have to do something. As has been said, can just pay him, buy him out later, stretch him - all those things. But to me, see if there is a bad contract to trade for. I just don't like the trading partners in Portland unless they have two years left and many other deals. Like I am sure the Knicks would allow the Suns to take Noah but he makes more than Knight - same year

There's an easy solution. Knight for Noah:

1. Screw Len.
2. Buyout or trade Chandler later...You'll easily find takers around trade deadline
3. Trade KNIGHT/DUDLEY for NOAH/O'QUINN: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8684ceb
4. Sign free agent guard like Ian Clark in case rookie Reed don't cut it as a backup to Booker.

DONE.

c sauce, noah, o'quinn
f chriss, bender, o'quinn
f jackson, warren, ddj
g booker, clark, reed
g bledsoe, ulis, james

[BobbieL]

We almost have to sign Len.... else another C somewhere. Would be a nice thought of Bender or Chris could man up there, but Len at a cheapity cheap deal is a reasonable move. Having Len also frees up a trade for Chandler down the road if need/opportunity arises.

Right now, I like the idea of buying out Tyson, signing Len to a reasonable 4 year deal with team options...

I have no idea what to do about BK. Would he benefit from JJ's passing at the 3? Could we move Bled and give Knight another chance? Would it matter? Would Bled return us anything worthwhile in trade? I ask all these questions knowing that McD will do what he always does and patiently carry this cluster forward into the season.

I agree about BK - either you need to move him to take on a bad deal; or move Bledsoe, make him the 1 and say "this is your team"

I know the team doesn't have to do something. As has been said, can just pay him, buy him out later, stretch him - all those things. But to me, see if there is a bad contract to trade for. I just don't like the trading partners in Portland unless they have two years left and many other deals. Like I am sure the Knicks would allow the Suns to take Noah but he makes more than Knight - same year

There's an easy solution. Knight for Noah:

1. Screw Len.
2. Buyout or trade Chandler later...You'll easily find takers around trade deadline
3. Trade KNIGHT/DUDLEY for NOAH/O'QUINN: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8684ceb
4. Sign free agent guard like Ian Clark in case rookie Reed don't cut it as a backup to Booker.

DONE.

c sauce, noah, o'quinn
f chriss, bender, o'quinn
f jackson, warren, ddj
g booker, clark, reed
g bledsoe, ulis, james

I hav ethought about taking Noah but only if you move Chandler - no buyout

I had a decent trade that got the Suns Love, O'Quinn and Frye
the Cavs Melo
The Knicks Bledsoe or Knight