Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 3: #TheTimeline

LukasBMW · Post #1621 » by **LukasBMW** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:05 pm

Len and Sauce @ the 5.
Chriss and Bender @ the 4.
TJ and JJ @ the 3.
Booker @ the 2.
Bledsoe and Ulis @ the 1.

We could seriously be the worst team in the league this year unless Len improves, Chriss/Bender snap out of it, and TJ plays well.

bigfoot · Post #1622 » by **bigfoot** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:14 pm

Some simple things folks

1) Warren is a starter ... period. Trying to shove Jackson in front of him is nonsense.
2) Len getting paid more than Sauce doesn't make sense. Len will take the QO or get a Suns contract similar or smaller than Williams' 3y/$17M. Ideally 2y/$10M
3) Knight is not going anywhere without us giving up one of our Miami picks.
4) With the lack of interest and glut in centers around the league I think it is unlikely we will be able to move Chandler.

Plan on starting the best five players which looks like Bledsoe, Booker, Jackson, Warren, and Chandler. Right now Bender and Chriss don't beat out any of those players. Williams might beat out Chandler but pairs better with Ulis.

Post #1623 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:31 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:
When did that happen? The coach kept giving him chances and from what we heard, Knight refused to do what Watson demanded of him. And it's not like Ulis played a bunch of minutes and Knight was forced to sit, Brandon actually played a few more minutes last season than Tyler did. Knight has been given more chances than his performance has warranted. He sat stoically on the sidelines, showing neither positive nor negative emotion and rarely provided anything close to the support you'd expect from someone who was really being a good teammate.

I think you're making excuses for a player that simply doesn't deserve that kind of consideration. He's shown a few flashes but for the most part he's been a huge disappointment from the moment he got here. The best I can say about him is that he didn't appear to try and cause havoc in the locker room but frankly, we have a right to expect a heck of a lot more than that from him.

There are no excuses being made for Knight. He hasn't played as well as we expect him to, that's fact. What's also a fact is, if a guy doesn't fit your roster anymore, and clearly he doesn't, you don't just bench him until his contract runs out. We asked him to come off the bench after siting 10 straight games which he refused to and we declared his season over. Maybe it was a mutual agreement, I don't know. What we know is that we no longer have a spot for him on the roster so you move him and move on.

The main issue here is, to me this is another case of McD sitting a contract too long hoping its value recovers or waiting for a deal he can't refuse to be offered to him. What I want to avoid is another Kieff situation or Dragic situation where McD sat on his hands waiting for the "perfect" deal while the affected players gets more and more disinterested, disgruntled and we get to a point where we have the stretch the guy's deal to move on.

This view of the past has no basis in reality. McD did no such thing as sit on his hands waiting for the perfect deal with Goran or with Kieff. He traded Goran right away once he said he was not going to return, otherwise he would have kept him. He got good value for Goran too. He had planned on keeping Kieff after the Marcus trade and initially hoped Keiff would back off of his trade request. He eventually traded him one he got a reasonable offer. Whose deal got stretched?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I don't want to go over this again since it's the past but Dragic made McD well aware of his discontent with the three PG line up well before the trade deadline when he said he wanted to be traded. It's been reported and he's said, that he couldn't trust the Suns front office after telling them there needs to be moves or he won't return. Let's not forget, it was this which kicked off the multiple trades which led us to losing the coveted LA pick and brought in Knight. Likewise with Kieff. He showed his discontent pretty much the moment his brother was traded. We got decent return for him but I thought he did enough damage with his attitude and butting heads with the HC.

I thought Josh Childress was stretched but he was amnestied under Blanks.

Post #1624 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:44 pm

BobbieL wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:I'd take Len at the qualifying offer. I might even lock him up at 3 years 27 million (hopefully with a team option on year 3) if he'd consider it.

just as long as its a team option - would agree

throw him a bone

QO is 4.2m
here is two years guaranteed at say 16m, 7 and 9 but we have a team option for 11
or take the QO

your choice big fellah

I'm comfortable with that. I'd rather sign him to something reasonable than to have to compete on the open market where Nets, Knicks and Kings still appear to be looking to spend for young talent. He may never be the C we envisioned he would be but he's still a decent rim defender, he's still young (pray he's a late bloomer ala RoLo) and he's a big C who can run with the team.

Fo-Real · Post #1625 » by **Fo-Real** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:09 am

Not for any reason, but would you guys rather have Len or Okafor on this team?

King4Day · Post #1626 » by **King4Day** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:20 am

Fo-Real wrote:Not for any reason, but would you guys rather have Len or Okafor on this team?

I'd take Len since he's familiar with the team already

BobbieL · Post #1627 » by **BobbieL** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:14 am

Fo-Real wrote:Not for any reason, but would you guys rather have Len or Okafor on this team?

Okafor train left when the Sixers signed Reddick - meaning move Knight for him

Hopefully the Suns get Len on a pretty cheap deal - say 7m in year 1 if multi year, 4.2 if the QO - that leaves either 12 or 15m in cap space

With that amount of cap space left, can eat one possibly two contracts for draft picks - and ride it out...

I have looked at teams and I don't like anybody say on Portland to dump Knight for - meaning keep Knight

I don't see a reason why say the Thunder would take Knight for Kanter unless they want to get under the luxury tax -- but they do not have assets to attach. So that's just a cash deal. Suns save some short term cap; Knight allows the thunder to get under the lux tax.

I think IF the Bucks are both serious about Derrick Rose and NOT wanting to be lux tax payers - the Suns can possibly take Teletovic off their hands (ideal scenario, three way trade I outlined a few pages ago) as that moves Knight to the Knicks -

its tough but steady the course, save your cap space and hope the young guys get better

Moochthemonkey · Post #1628 » by **Moochthemonkey** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:35 am

Fo-Real wrote:Not for any reason, but would you guys rather have Len or Okafor on this team?

Why not both? They were both on the same team in 2013-14

NTB · Post #1629 » by **NTB** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:43 am

Evan Sidery (from BSoTS) apparently talked to Woj at SL today.

Sonne · Post #1630 » by **Sonne** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:52 am

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=57441272#p57441272

:lol:

thamadkant · Post #1631 » by **thamadkant** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:11 am

Suns have terrible ball movement... I would definitely push for Jackson to start.... He has looked good passing the ball around and he actually likes to do it rather than look for his own shots which the Suns have excess players who does.

kennydorglas · Post #1632 » by **kennydorglas** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:53 am

1UPZ wrote:Suns have terrible ball movement... I would definitely push for Jackson to start.... He has looked good passing the ball around and he actually likes to do it rather than look for his own shots which the Suns have excess players who does.

Just makes too much sense our 2nd unit being: Ulis/Reed/Warren/Bender/Big Sauce.

YouTube · Post #1633 » by **Kerrsed** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:57 am

Sonne wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=57441272#p57441272

Thats not cool to troll a board like that. You deserve the suspension you just got.

Post #1634 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:34 am

Kerrsed wrote:
Sonne wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=57441272#p57441272

Thats not cool to troll a board like that. You deserve the suspension you just got.

Why the brag about signing a guy for $5.7 million a year? It's not like they lost Hayward or something. And it's not like there was much news at all about them wanting him...yes a mention a while back..that's about it.

RaisingArizona · Post #1635 » by **RaisingArizona** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:42 am

I really don't like Len but at 4-5 million for another year, it's worth it. The guy needs to put in time to get better. Pretty sad that we are tempted to give up on him already.

PackSuns · Post #1636 » by **PackSuns** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:49 am

kennydorglas wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Suns have terrible ball movement... I would definitely push for Jackson to start.... He has looked good passing the ball around and he actually likes to do it rather than look for his own shots which the Suns have excess players who does.

Just makes too much sense our 2nd unit being: Ulis/Reed/Warren/Bender/Big Sauce.

I'm confused. TJ has done nothing this summer to downgrade his value but he gets sent to the bench in your opinion? Chriss on the other hand ...

Post #1637 » by **batsmasher** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:51 am

ginobiliflops wrote:I really don't like Len but at 4-5 million for another year, it's worth it. The guy needs to put in time to get better. Pretty sad that we are tempted to give up on him already.

I think quietly he might be a little denser between the ears than anyone has ever realized.

Walt_Uoob · Post #1638 » by **Walt_Uoob** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:16 am

I'm guessing McD is giving all these indications that we're indifferent about Len because he wants Len to sign a lowball offer that we do ultimately match. Dude loves nothing more than a positional logjam to gin up trade offers.

bwoolf2 · Post #1639 » by **bwoolf2** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:40 am

1UPZ wrote:Suns have terrible ball movement... I would definitely push for Jackson to start.... He has looked good passing the ball around and he actually likes to do it rather than look for his own shots which the Suns have excess players who does.

Jackson should be coming off the bench unless Warren is starting at the 4, right now TJ is our second best player and by a pretty wide margin.

Sunzgunz · Post #1640 » by **Sunzgunz** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:42 am

1UPZ wrote:Suns have terrible ball movement... I would definitely push for Jackson to start.... He has looked good passing the ball around and he actually likes to do it rather than look for his own shots which the Suns have excess players who does.

It's funny, I've seen some hate on JJ. His defense is all it's cracked up to be and then some! It's pretty instinctive on when to do which.....jams the outlet/releases, closes out, forces down, rotate, pinch/buy time....u name it! ....it really is amazing how advanced his defensive IQ is. ...and we haven't even jumped into how versatile he is...hes guarded 1 through 4.

His dribbling and passing are also as advertised, unfortunately his stats aren't reflecting this yet. He's had some incredible and unselfish looks; including his willingness to make the hockey assist.

Unfortunately his shot is also as advertised. Form and selection have been sporadic. But his athleticism, handles and hustle will allow him to be a decent scorer from jump.

We got plenty of time to work on his shot and shot selection. In addition, while Mike is playing better than decent, he's not a true point guard and it shows. Our halfcourt movement without the ball has been subpar, and when we do, lead passes seem to be a second too soon, or a second too late.

Our athletic bigs will benefit considerably in the regular season from better spacing, ball movement and delivery.

I still think R.O.Y. belongs to DSJ, but JJ can really push him, especially if voters do their due diligence and factor in his defensive impact!