Welcome Simmons

Kolkmania · Post #1981 » by **Kolkmania** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:43 am

Simmons25 wrote:
Kolkmania wrote:
XtremeDunkz wrote:It really is like just about everyone has forgotten how good Simmons really is over the past 12 months. I really can not wait until the season starts. I'll have my home opener tickets.

Absolutely, everybody is super excited about the passing abilities of Lonzo Ball (rightfully so), but this tweet really opened my eyes about the difficulty of their passes. Lonzo's AST/TOV >> Simmons' AST/TOV, but Lonzo's passes are primarily in transition, Simmons has the ability to create for others in halfcourt as well.

I saw a Lakers fan making a point that Lonzo throws amazing passes around the court to get the ball flowing where Simmons throws passes to get assists. He was trying to insinuate that it was a slight on Simmons and that he was an assist stat hunter... not realising that it actually shows the exact opposite and one of the weaknesses with Lonzo and the difference between him and Ben.

Lonzo can't score at will and get his own shot... he looks to pass first and his ceiling is Ricky Rubio because of that.
Simmons can score at will and his mindset is "Can I get someone an easy bucket"... if not "Can I score" and if he draws multiple defenders "Can I dish it off to give it to someone wide open". That's why his ceiling is so much higher.

It's admirable how often Ball makes the right decision in transition, his passes look so easy, but it's extremely hard to weigh in every option and execute the best option. However, the difference between the playmaking abilities of Simmons and Ball aren't close, Ball needs to play more of an off ball role to become efficient in the halfcourt.

PLO · Post #1982 » by **PLO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:10 am

The Ben Rubin article on odetooden had some qualified praise for Colagnelo, the entire thing is worth reading.

"As bad as the Nerlens Noel trade was for Philadelphia, Sixers fans should take solace knowing that Brian Colangelo, having perhaps learned from past mistakes, is at least so far as the salary cap taking the side of immense caution. Handing out only one year contracts. Refusing to commit money long should there even be a single reason to doubt. That's a strategy that's going to perhaps miss out on some opportunity (Kentavious Caldwell-Pope being a potential example), but it's also a strategy that can lead a team, especially one laden with talent, into its best destiny.

The reason being that Brian Colangelo has made deals which not only serve the purposes of the team in short term, but also allow the team to remain flexible to grow into the future. Of course, it's the same reason why selling draft picks is so myopic and cynical. Since It's not only difficult to find talent, but talent richness leads to flexibility."

link

PLO · Post #1983 » by **PLO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:22 am

^ ^ posted in wrong thread, whatever. Mods can move it if they like.

76ciology · Post #1984 » by **76ciology** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:58 am

Dont get me wrong. I know Ben plays PG and Fultz plays SG on offense then Ben plays PF on defense. But why do you guys think they state Ben as PG and not as point forward like a LeBron? Is it because Ben is like Lonzo that has a questionable scoring and shooting ability so he a favoring too much on his play making game?

XtremeDunkz · Post #1985 » by **XtremeDunkz** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:32 pm

76ciology wrote:Dont get me wrong. I know Ben plays PG and Fultz plays SG on offense then Ben plays PF on defense. But why do you guys think they state Ben as PG and not as point forward like a LeBron? Is it because Ben is like Lonzo that has a questionable scoring and shooting ability so he a favoring too much on his play making game?

I just think people are looking way too hard at position labels. It's not that important.

Rastas · Post #1986 » by **Rastas** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:16 pm

Predicting Ben to be a 35/65 point threat - thats 35% looking to score himself and 65% giving it to the Sixer he feels is the best chance to score.
For his rookie year I see a stat line around 17/8/8 - good luck other rooks.

76ciology · Post #1987 » by **76ciology** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:41 pm

XtremeDunkz wrote:
76ciology wrote:Dont get me wrong. I know Ben plays PG and Fultz plays SG on offense then Ben plays PF on defense. But why do you guys think they state Ben as PG and not as point forward like a LeBron? Is it because Ben is like Lonzo that has a questionable scoring and shooting ability so he a favoring too much on his play making game?

I just think people are looking way too hard at position labels. It's not that important.

For me media just wants something to get the fans talk about while season talk is kinda slow.

For instance I have a friend who's a very very casual NBA fan and he came up to me awhile ago and told me.. "Hey have you heard about Ben Simmons? He's a 6'10 PG. That's huge.." Then I have to explain the entire dynamic about PG is more of a role than a position, like a primary playmaker but it doesnt necessarily means he's going to cover PGs and opponents PG is going to cover him.

long range bomber · Post #1988 » by **long range bomber** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:00 pm

Rastas wrote:Predicting Ben to be a 35/65 point threat - thats 35% looking to score himself and 65% giving it to the Sixer he feels is the best chance to score.
For his rookie year I see a stat line around 17/8/8 - good luck other rooks.

Lebron averaged over 5.5rpg and 5.9apg in his rookie year.

Chris Paul averaged 5.1rpg and 7.8apg in his rookie year.

Westbrook averaged 4.9rpg and 5.3apg in his rookie year.

Not sure if Simmons can averaged the numbers you predicted in his rookie year.. maybe he gets there after a few years but it will be difficult to average that as a rook.

Negrodamus · Post #1989 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:21 pm

I could see Ben Simmons being a triple double average threat every year, but I don't expect him to ever really exceed the 15 ppg mark at any point in his career. I could be incredibly wrong, but he's never going to be a threat shooting the ball and that's fine. Everything else he offers (passing, rebounding, driving, versatility on both sides of the ball, etc) will be what makes him elite.

PLO · Post #1990 » by **PLO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:27 pm

long range bomber wrote:
Rastas wrote:Predicting Ben to be a 35/65 point threat - thats 35% looking to score himself and 65% giving it to the Sixer he feels is the best chance to score.
For his rookie year I see a stat line around 17/8/8 - good luck other rooks.

Lebron averaged over 5.5rpg and 5.9apg in his rookie year.

Chris Paul averaged 5.1rpg and 7.8apg in his rookie year.

Westbrook averaged 4.9rpg and 5.3apg in his rookie year.

Not sure if Simmons can averaged the numbers you predicted in his rookie year.. maybe he gets there after a few years but it will be difficult to average that as a rook.

Apart from Lebron those aren't great comps for Simmons. Historically production in terms of college rebounding transfers very well to the NBA. What will limit him in terms of rebounds is playing the point compared to playing as a true PF, but I don't think it will limit him that much. He's just a really really good rebounder.

Negrodamus · Post #1991 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:32 pm

PLO wrote:
long range bomber wrote:
Rastas wrote:Predicting Ben to be a 35/65 point threat - thats 35% looking to score himself and 65% giving it to the Sixer he feels is the best chance to score.
For his rookie year I see a stat line around 17/8/8 - good luck other rooks.

Lebron averaged over 5.5rpg and 5.9apg in his rookie year.

Chris Paul averaged 5.1rpg and 7.8apg in his rookie year.

Westbrook averaged 4.9rpg and 5.3apg in his rookie year.

Not sure if Simmons can averaged the numbers you predicted in his rookie year.. maybe he gets there after a few years but it will be difficult to average that as a rook.

Apart from Lebron those aren't great comps for Simmons. Historically production in terms of college rebounding transfers very well to the NBA. What will limit him in terms of rebounds is playing the point compared to playing as a true PF, but I don't think it will limit him that much. He's just a really really good rebounder.

Judging by how our big men rebounded last year, there will be plenty of opportunity for him.

PLO · Post #1992 » by **PLO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:33 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I could see Ben Simmons being a triple double average threat every year, but I don't expect him to ever really exceed the 15 ppg mark at any point in his career. I could be incredibly wrong, but he's never going to be a threat shooting the ball and that's fine. Everything else he offers (passing, rebounding, driving, versatility on both sides of the ball, etc) will be what makes him elite.

Opening night Simmons comes out and starts shooting right handed, as he's been working on it in secret for a year. Drops 30 points on 60% shooting including several made shots beyond the arc. Form looks excellent. Never drops below 55% for the rest of the season on volume.

long range bomber · Post #1993 » by **long range bomber** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:48 pm

PLO wrote:
long range bomber wrote:
Rastas wrote:Predicting Ben to be a 35/65 point threat - thats 35% looking to score himself and 65% giving it to the Sixer he feels is the best chance to score.
For his rookie year I see a stat line around 17/8/8 - good luck other rooks.

Lebron averaged over 5.5rpg and 5.9apg in his rookie year.

Chris Paul averaged 5.1rpg and 7.8apg in his rookie year.

Westbrook averaged 4.9rpg and 5.3apg in his rookie year.

Not sure if Simmons can averaged the numbers you predicted in his rookie year.. maybe he gets there after a few years but it will be difficult to average that as a rook.

Apart from Lebron those aren't great comps for Simmons. Historically production in terms of college rebounding transfers very well to the NBA. What will limit him in terms of rebounds is playing the point compared to playing as a true PF, but I don't think it will limit him that much. He's just a really really good rebounder.

So who is the closest comparable rookie year do you Simmons having? You honestly think he will average better rebounding and assist numbers than Lebron???

PLO · Post #1994 » by **PLO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:54 pm

long range bomber wrote:
PLO wrote:
long range bomber wrote:Lebron averaged over 5.5rpg and 5.9apg in his rookie year.

Chris Paul averaged 5.1rpg and 7.8apg in his rookie year.

Westbrook averaged 4.9rpg and 5.3apg in his rookie year.

Not sure if Simmons can averaged the numbers you predicted in his rookie year.. maybe he gets there after a few years but it will be difficult to average that as a rook.

Apart from Lebron those aren't great comps for Simmons. Historically production in terms of college rebounding transfers very well to the NBA. What will limit him in terms of rebounds is playing the point compared to playing as a true PF, but I don't think it will limit him that much. He's just a really really good rebounder.

So who is the closest comparable rookie year do you Simmons having? You honestly think he will average better rebounding and assist numbers than Lebron???

Well, Lebron was straight out of high school; admittedly he was an adonis already at that stage. Simmons is quite a bit older, quite a bit taller and quite a bit heavier. Like I said I think the comp with Lebron is the fairest one of the ones you cited; but I think Simmons is a better rebounder now than Lebron was then. I'd be surprised if Simmons averaged less rebounds than Lebron did in his rookie year.

Post #1995 » by **Sixerscan** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:06 pm

People get too hung up on raw numbers. MCW averaged 6.3 assists and 6.2 rebounds his rookie year

Lebron wasn't playing point guard on offense and wasn't playing power forward on defense.

Ben could absolutely average more counting numbers in assists and rebounds than Lebron did as a rookie. Doesn't mean he is better than Lebron was. No more than MCW being better as a rookie, or even Westbrook averaging more assists and rebounds this year meaning he's better than Lebron.

PLO · Post #1996 » by **PLO** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Agreed higher stats don't mean he's better than Lebron, he probably won't have higher scoring stats than Lebron as Negrodamus has already pointed out, will probably turn the ball over more as well. But since I've discarded the Lebron hyperbole I'll substitute another, and this is just in terms of rebounding, Simmons reminds me quite a bit of Karl Malone on the boards and in fact has better college output compared to Malone in that stat (not that I saw Malone play in college). So I'll pick his RPG as quite a bit north of Lebrons but south of Malone's debut season, given just how much of a physical beast Karl Malone was.

aicrossover7 · Post #1997 » by **aicrossover7** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:38 pm

I'm pretty sure Lebron played PG in his rookie year. Wasn't it Lebron/Ricky Davis/Darius Miles/Boozer/Z? I think eventually after they traded Ricky and Darius, he moved to SF.

But anyway, with the spacing and number of possessions in the modern day, I think 8 rpg is a feasible number.

sixerswillrule · Post #1998 » by **sixerswillrule** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:43 pm

aicrossover7 wrote:I'm pretty sure Lebron played PG in his rookie year. Wasn't it Lebron/Ricky Davis/Darius Miles/Boozer/Z? I think eventually after they traded Ricky and Darius, he moved to SF.

But anyway, with the spacing and number of possessions in the modern day, I think 8 rpg is a feasible number.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/lineups/2004

He also played 40 mpg his rookie year

His assist and rebound rate was the lowest of his career.

Ericb5 · Post #1999 » by **Ericb5** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:43 pm

Negrodamus wrote:I could see Ben Simmons being a triple double average threat every year, but I don't expect him to ever really exceed the 15 ppg mark at any point in his career. I could be incredibly wrong, but he's never going to be a threat shooting the ball and that's fine. Everything else he offers (passing, rebounding, driving, versatility on both sides of the ball, etc) will be what makes him elite.

I bet he averages more than 15 ppg this year, and if players like Magic and Chris Paul can average 20 ppg, I do t know why Simmons couldn't.

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long range bomber · Post #2000 » by **long range bomber** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:56 pm

Sixerscan wrote:People get too hung up on raw numbers. MCW averaged 6.3 assists and 6.2 rebounds his rookie year

Lebron wasn't playing point guard on offense and wasn't playing power forward on defense.

Ben could absolutely average more counting numbers in assists and rebounds than Lebron did as a rookie. Doesn't mean he is better than Lebron was. No more than MCW being better as a rookie, or even Westbrook averaging more assists and rebounds this year meaning he's better than Lebron.

Who ever said anything about numbers meaning a player is better???

Also what do you personally think Simmons will average in rebounds and assists?