2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Ror1997]

Smh....we should be on this kcp deal

Wouldn't count us out until its all said and done.

[steady]

This is probably KCP's agent talking, but anyway. ... in an article today:

"Several teams who were previously hesitant to pursue Caldwell-Pope have gotten engaged with him after the Pistons removed the threat of matching, sources said. Other teams in talks with Caldwell-Pope that have some cap space have been looking to create more, sources said."'

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19966018/los-angeles-lakers-met-rajon-rondo-kentavious-caldwell-pope

[Mkdaman1818]

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[Prokorov]

I would keep Lin on the team for culture purposes, if he's willing to sign on a reasonable deal. The guy has a great relationship with Atkinson and has shown willingness to come off the bench when needed. I believe his mentorship is the type that could speed up a rookie's development process. Given we have tons of young high potential guys with some solid 1st round picks come summer 2019 (Lin opts in), a 4/60 deal would pay for itself down the road if you believe he can help rookie's on 3M dollar deals play to 10M value.

But this would all come down to how he plays this upcoming season.

yeah thats why i want him to opt in at the end of the year. 1.5 to 2 more season of lin for development. that takes us into the 19-20 offseason. our core will be 23-26 and we'd have just drafted a guy with our own nets pick. at that point i think you move on from lin unless he really wants a bench role and pay cut

[Prokorov]

This is probably KCP's agent talking, but anyway. ... in an article today:

"Several teams who were previously hesitant to pursue Caldwell-Pope have gotten engaged with him after the Pistons removed the threat of matching, sources said. Other teams in talks with Caldwell-Pope that have some cap space have been looking to create more, sources said."'

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19966018/los-angeles-lakers-met-rajon-rondo-kentavious-caldwell-pope

everyone is going to be in on him. 24 year old 2 way player who is excellent from deep and has alot of ceiling left. UFA's like that down come along all that often

[Palmeirense]

Can't believe we will miss on KCP.

[Prokorov]

Can't believe we will miss on KCP.

yeah... kind of ironic with marks throwing massive overpays at scrubs and role guys like bazemore or crabbe but KCP is there ripe for the picking and we arent being aggressive

[Claud]

Can't believe we will miss on KCP.

yeah... kind of ironic with marks throwing massive overpays at scrubs and role guys like bazemore or crabbe but KCP is there ripe for the picking and we arent being aggressive

It's all agent talk... KCP is 1 option of many different ones for us. Of course we can get KCP if we want him since we can offer him the most lucrative contract in the market but we have to trust the front office knows what its doing... there could be better deals that we know nothing about.

KCP is a good idea but I'm fine with trusting the process and waiting for the right salary dump. 2019 is our realistic target year to start making moves IMO.

[Prokorov]

It's all agent talk... KCP is 1 option of many different ones for us. Of course we can get KCP if we want him since we can offer him the most lucrative contract in the market but we have to trust the front office knows what its doing... there could be better deals that we know nothing about.

Free agency is the one area i dont trust the front office

KCP is a good idea but I'm fine with trusting the process and waiting for the right salary dump. 2019 is our realistic target year to start making moves IMO.

yeah, its not the end of the world but you dont get many chance to get 24 year olds at his level in free agency

[Ror1997]

It's all agent talk... KCP is 1 option of many different ones for us. Of course we can get KCP if we want him since we can offer him the most lucrative contract in the market but we have to trust the front office knows what its doing... there could be better deals that we know nothing about.

Free agency is the one area i dont trust the front office

KCP is a good idea but I'm fine with trusting the process and waiting for the right salary dump. 2019 is our realistic target year to start making moves IMO.

yeah, its not the end of the world but you dont get many chance to get 24 year olds at his level in free agency

Hold on. You DON'T trust the FO to overpay to acquire young talent? Isn't they were your distrust stems from?

[MrDollarBills]

This is probably KCP's agent talking, but anyway. ... in an article today:

"Several teams who were previously hesitant to pursue Caldwell-Pope have gotten engaged with him after the Pistons removed the threat of matching, sources said. Other teams in talks with Caldwell-Pope that have some cap space have been looking to create more, sources said."'

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19966018/los-angeles-lakers-met-rajon-rondo-kentavious-caldwell-pope

everyone is going to be in on him. 24 year old 2 way player who is excellent from deep and has alot of ceiling left. UFA's like that down come along all that often

I am baffled as to how we are going to let this opportunity pass.

[NyCeEvO]

Bradley would play 2 where he always has. We could let Lin walk, move Russell to 1, and play Bradley at 2. Russell would be a tall PG at 6'5". Bradley is worth more than KCP, he's actually a two-way player, who has improved each season. It wouldn't surprise me to see him have a great season in Detroit.

If Bradley starts we would no longer have multiple ballhandlers and more importantly, penetrators, in the lineup. This alongside shooting are the two skillsets that Kenny has preached about the most.

Lin and DAR actually penetrate and create for others. Bradley is a good shooter and would benefit from such penetration but he cannot do that himself.

Idk why you think that Bradley can't put the ball down on the floor. Not saying that he's some big creator/playmaker but he's not completely useless handling the ball. Besides, you can still have Levert at 3 who can handle the ball and create. Similarly, RHJ at the 4 can handle a bit too and create. Since the alternative in this case is KCP, its not like KCP is some great ball handler or playmaker either.

I never said he couldn't put the ball sown on the floor. That's why I specifically referred to penetration being more important.

Bradley is capable of dribbling and not looking like a fool, but he is not a player who runs PnR as the ballhandler.

Despite KCP being a more inefficient shooter, he has been used as a PnR ballhandler.

The Nets also value size. I think they'd prefer KCP at 6'5", a few years younger, and one more accustomed to dribble-drive attacking.

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[Paradise]

This is probably KCP's agent talking, but anyway. ... in an article today:

"Several teams who were previously hesitant to pursue Caldwell-Pope have gotten engaged with him after the Pistons removed the threat of matching, sources said. Other teams in talks with Caldwell-Pope that have some cap space have been looking to create more, sources said."'

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19966018/los-angeles-lakers-met-rajon-rondo-kentavious-caldwell-pope

everyone is going to be in on him. 24 year old 2 way player who is excellent from deep and has alot of ceiling left. UFA's like that down come along all that often

I am baffled as to how we are going to let this opportunity pass.

He could meet with us tomorrow or Thursday once the cap room is released.


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[MrDollarBills]

I'd rather have KCP over another salary dump albatross contract. We are already back into the 2018 draft. We need more talent. KCP is a no brainer.

[vincecarter4pres]

Can't believe we will miss on KCP.

yeah... kind of ironic with marks throwing massive overpays at scrubs and role guys like bazemore or crabbe but KCP is there ripe for the picking and we arent being aggressive

I like the idea of being non-aggressive.

To me the perfect scenario is absorb Aldrich for the OKC 1st and don't give out anything else this summer unless it's a 1 year deal for 1 or 2 glue guys/vet leaders with some actual on court value once every last bit of space dries up and there's a guy or 2 who have no other options.

Then strike when a blockbuster is out there, either this deadline, or next summer and set yourself up to add a big time player on max.

I get why people will call me crazy, but if everything fell into place, we'd have a real shot to land a guy like Paul George in free agency. Or more realistically a guy is asking out and says he's going to walk in FA anyway, or something like that?

And I understand this is a slow rebuild and we're the Nets and we have limited assets and the such... but... say these things go right:

Russell turns a corner and looks fantastic.
LeVert has grown exponentially.
RHJ looks much improved with an even higher ceiling.
A couple of the young guys look really solid.
The Toronto and OKC picks are both in the late teens to very early 20's.
Allen looks raw, but has shown real flashes, that even other players around the league take note of, even if his stats are crap.
We sneak in as a 36 to 40 win 8 seed and show heart and that Brooklyn grit in the playoffs.

This would all be the absolute perfect storm, but say all that happened?

Then fast forward to next summer and a guy like Klay Thompson is demanding out? It winds up like a Paul George situation, where all their offers are low ball and they want to send him East? Can RHJ/OKC 1st(say 19th overall)/Toronto 1st(say 21st overall)/A guy like Goodwin who looked great, get it done?

What if Cousins and George are both going to walk? You S&T for one of them, sign the other? Stuff like that. S&T for George with that package, sign Favors outright.

My whole long winded point being, to me it's better to pick up that extra mid-1st and keep open major cap and wait for the chance to pounce, then to sign a mediocre young player with question marks on and off the court like KCP and lock yourself in.

How bout even in 2 years? McCollum is out there? Stuff like that. I don't see missing out on KCP as any big loss. I think a lot of us here were very anti-KCP at almost any reasonable price point(see: even on a "steal" like 4/68) and now we're just all excited over the possibilities of a shiny new toy, but in a season or less we're gonna be like, "damn, KCP is the new Shumpert..."

We can't control what Marks and co. does and I'll trust him til I shouldn't, but that would be my plan.

[NyCeEvO]

This is probably KCP's agent talking, but anyway. ... in an article today:

"Several teams who were previously hesitant to pursue Caldwell-Pope have gotten engaged with him after the Pistons removed the threat of matching, sources said. Other teams in talks with Caldwell-Pope that have some cap space have been looking to create more, sources said."'

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19966018/los-angeles-lakers-met-rajon-rondo-kentavious-caldwell-pope

everyone is going to be in on him. 24 year old 2 way player who is excellent from deep and has alot of ceiling left. UFA's like that down come along all that often

I am baffled as to how we are going to let this opportunity pass.

KCP is a good player but let's not act like he's absolutely a home run.

Those who have argued against signing KCP have brought up valid critiques.

It is true that in catch-and-shoot scenarios, he's a good 3pt shooter. But overall he obviously still took a good number of 3s and 2s that he wasn't able to convert.

In the little bit that I've watched him play, he looks like a ball of energy. That's great on defense and slashing but it's also what's caused him to be inefficient on the offensive end and is probably a sign of middling BBIQ. My remedy for KCP's shot selection is for him to show restraint, but tbf it takes BBIQ to show restraint. Can Kenny instill that in him? We don't know.

Also, the fact that fewer and fewer teams have cap space can make it more valuable as time goes on. Marks has stated this out loud so we know it's a reality that he's thinking about. Who's to say that another DAR like deal isn't out there next year? Could Milwaukee decide to let Jabari go because they don't want to pay him before he proves he's fully healthy? No one knows.

With KCP, there are a lot of good traits but also some big question marks. With cap space, we could make a steal of a trade later on this year but again there are no promises of this occurring.

I'm cool with either decision Marks takes. KCP definitely improves us now, but if cap space could be used to Net us a Jabari Parker + John Henson or Aaron Gordon + Biyombo type of deals in the future, I'd be more thankful that we didn't spend the money on KCP. Even after those deals, we'd still have room to do more things.

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[PG13]

If Bradley starts we would no longer have multiple ballhandlers and more importantly, penetrators, in the lineup. This alongside shooting are the two skillsets that Kenny has preached about the most.

Lin and DAR actually penetrate and create for others. Bradley is a good shooter and would benefit from such penetration but he cannot do that himself.

Idk why you think that Bradley can't put the ball down on the floor. Not saying that he's some big creator/playmaker but he's not completely useless handling the ball. Besides, you can still have Levert at 3 who can handle the ball and create. Similarly, RHJ at the 4 can handle a bit too and create. Since the alternative in this case is KCP, its not like KCP is some great ball handler or playmaker either.

I never said he couldn't put the ball sown on the floor. That's why I specifically referred to penetration being more important.

Bradley is capable of dribbling and not looking like a fool, but he is not a player who runs PnR as the ballhandler.

Despite KCP being a more inefficient shooter, he has been used as a PnR ballhandler.

The Nets also value size. I think they'd prefer KCP at 6'5", a few years younger, and one more accustomed to dribble-drive attacking.

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Size does matter. For the Nets. I think that's why we let Yogi "all rookie team" Ferrell go last year.

[jtsmith]

I think Marks is playing a good poker game. The market value for KCP goes down with less noise and more time passing.

[PG13]

everyone is going to be in on him. 24 year old 2 way player who is excellent from deep and has alot of ceiling left. UFA's like that down come along all that often

I am baffled as to how we are going to let this opportunity pass.

KCP is a good player but let's not act like he's absolutely a home run.

Those who have argued against signing KCP have brought up valid critiques.

It is true that in catch-and-shoot scenarios, he's a good 3pt shooter. But overall he obviously still took a good number of 3s and 2s that he wasn't able to convert.

In the little bit that I've watched him play, he looks like a ball of energy. That's great on defense and slashing but it's also what's caused him to be inefficient on the offensive end and is probably a sign of middling BBIQ. My remedy for KCP's shot selection is for him to show restraint, but tbf it takes BBIQ to show restraint. Can Kenny instill that in him? We don't know.

Also, the fact that fewer and fewer teams have cap space can make it more valuable as time goes on. Marks has stated this out loud so we know it's a reality that he's thinking about. Who's to say that another DAR like deal isn't out there next year? Could Milwaukee decide to let Jabari go because they don't want to pay him before he proves he's fully healthy? No one knows.

With KCP, there are a lot of good traits but also some big question marks. With cap space, we could make a steal of a trade later on this year but again there are no promises of this occurring.

I'm cool with either decision Marks takes. KCP definitely improves us now, but if cap space could be used to Net us a Jabari Parker + John Henson or Aaron Gordon + Biyombo type of deals in the future, I'd be more thankful that we didn't spend the money on KCP. Even after those deals, we'd still have room to do more things.

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Well said!

The cost of signing KCP = cost of his contract + opportunity cost. I understand he has talent and he's young, but guard is not a position that we are in dire need to fill. If we miss out, so be it. I'm more excited to see what other rabbits Sean can pull out of his hat.

[Mkdaman1818]

Damn I liked him

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