Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 3: #TheTimeline

thamadkant · Post #1721 » by **thamadkant** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:16 am

I understand we all must support the suns youth and I do too.

But seeing the polls with Booker vs anyone tells me that some fans here have really high expectations of Booker which is fair but will likely lead to disappointment.

Yes... He will still improve... Yes he will be an amazing scorer... But he is far from being a top 15 player in the league... He needs to either be an elite scorer and offensive player (play making, passing etc, like Harden) or a good scorer and a good defender (Hayward, Butler, Kawhi, George etc)
for me to really be sold on him.

At this time and likely... He is going to be a 25-26ppg 3apg 4rpg type of player that is a poor defender. Good... But no contender MVP sadly... But its okay to love him... Suns need players like him gives positives to the fan base.

I just really want him to be a better defender....

BobbieL · Post #1722 » by **BobbieL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:25 am

Booker has been in the league two years and comparing him to Klay, Hayward, Kawhi - not fair. Unless you can go see video of all of those players at the same time

And I was okay with Booker being more "Klay-like" than "Hayward-like" - give me a guy who can flat out shoot the rock and score 20-22 ppg - good enough for me

Yes, his defense needs to get better. But he should improve as he gets older, smarter, etc. Compare Booker to a guy like Ingram - one year apart. Or other 2/3 guys in their second or third years.

Post #1723 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:34 am

BobbieL wrote:Booker has been in the league two years and comparing him to Klay, Hayward, Kawhi - not fair. Unless you can go see video of all of those players at the same time

And I was okay with Booker being more "Klay-like" than "Hayward-like" - give me a guy who can flat out shoot the rock and score 20-22 ppg - good enough for me

Yes, his defense needs to get better. But he should improve as he gets older, smarter, etc. Compare Booker to a guy like Ingram - one year apart. Or other 2/3 guys in their second or third years.

Maybe not Ingram, but he compares very close to D'Angelo Russell. Almost identical shooting #s, though they slightly favor Booker from 3 and he is a better FT shooter, though Russell has more assists, rebounds, steals, etc. So it will be interesting to see how their careers develop moving forward, being the same age, same draft etc. Russell has been knocked a bit and under a bigger microscope going #2 to a place like LA, and Booker a great pick at 13 to us who desperately needed a really good young player. In a redraft they probably go like 4th and 5th.

Post #1724 » by **batsmasher** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:04 am

1UPZ wrote:I understand we all must support the suns youth and I do too.

But seeing the polls with Booker vs anyone tells me that some fans here have really high expectations of Booker which is fair but will likely lead to disappointment.

Yes... He will still improve... Yes he will be an amazing scorer... But he is far from being a top 15 player in the league... He needs to either be an elite scorer and offensive player (play making, passing etc, like Harden) or a good scorer and a good defender (Hayward, Butler, Kawhi, George etc)
for me to really be sold on him.

At this time and likely... He is going to be a 25-26ppg 3apg 4rpg type of player that is a poor defender. Good... But no contender MVP sadly... But its okay to love him... Suns need players like him gives positives to the fan base.

I just really want him to be a better defender....

Loving on Book makes sense. This team has success in its blood and a playoff drought like this leaves most people hungry for a savior. What bothers me is that people (from my perspective) are using their Booker love as a platform to downplay some seriously legit talent around the league. I understand it's harder to have a read on guys that don't play for your team (particularly for the more casual fans) but it looks to me as if:

1) it's being underrated how hard it is to get into that very elite bracket offensively - people are penning him in to make that jump based solely on potential (and in all honesty I don't even believe in the passing so I can't even see the potential)
2) we're ignoring the lack of defensive growth he has shown. Again, the only thing people can hold their hat on is potential. And keep in mind- that potential isn't to be a good defender, that's potential to be a league average defender.

NTB · Post #1725 » by **NTB** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:15 am

Read on Twitter

NTB · Post #1726 » by **NTB** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:23 am

Read on Twitter

matt131 · Post #1727 » by **matt131** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:26 am

NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter

So now the Spurs sign Len and turn him into baby David Robinson? Lol

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

BobbieL · Post #1728 » by **BobbieL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:39 am

matt131 wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter

So now the Spurs sign Len and turn him into baby David Robinson? Lol

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That would be one team - unless the dollars are outrageuous - I would match.

If its Orlando that gave Len an offer - let him go to Disneyworld!! RC and Pop - hmmm

great deal by the Hawks - I thought of Atlanta for Dedmon but Len your market is drying up

BobbieL · Post #1729 » by **BobbieL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:40 am

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:Booker has been in the league two years and comparing him to Klay, Hayward, Kawhi - not fair. Unless you can go see video of all of those players at the same time

And I was okay with Booker being more "Klay-like" than "Hayward-like" - give me a guy who can flat out shoot the rock and score 20-22 ppg - good enough for me

Yes, his defense needs to get better. But he should improve as he gets older, smarter, etc. Compare Booker to a guy like Ingram - one year apart. Or other 2/3 guys in their second or third years.

Maybe not Ingram, but he compares very close to D'Angelo Russell. Almost identical shooting #s, though they slightly favor Booker from 3 and he is a better FT shooter, though Russell has more assists, rebounds, steals, etc. So it will be interesting to see how their careers develop moving forward, being the same age, same draft etc. Russell has been knocked a bit and under a bigger microscope going #2 to a place like LA, and Booker a great pick at 13 to us who desperately needed a really good young player. In a redraft they probably go like 4th and 5th.

Great comp - thanks. I was trying to think of one quickly - so yes. Russell over Ingram as a Booker comp. And you are right, both would be top 5 picks.

Post #1730 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:46 am

matt131 wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter

So now the Spurs sign Len and turn him into baby David Robinson? Lol

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I'm a little surprised the Spurs let Dedmon go. He's better than Len at everything but rim protection, but if the Spurs see something in Len and did sign him I'd hate to not match it (it certainly wouldn't be a contract any bigger than what Dedmon got per year I imagine).

Post #1731 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:52 am

BobbieL wrote:
matt131 wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter

So now the Spurs sign Len and turn him into baby David Robinson? Lol

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

That would be one team - unless the dollars are outrageuous - I would match.

If its Orlando that gave Len an offer - let him go to Disneyworld!! RC and Pop - hmmm

great deal by the Hawks - I thought of Atlanta for Dedmon but Len your market is drying up

Brooklyn could probably use a young big. I don't imagine they plan on using Mozgov as a part of their future. I think once the Porter thing gets resolved, they will likely make KCP an offer..if for some reason KCP goes elsewhere, they could look at Len.

It seems like someone might go for Willie Reed first though. He is very similar to Alan Williams.

I'm surprised no one has made an offer for JaMychal Green yet either. He is more of a PF or combo forward, but would be a good value signing. He is pretty solid defensively and can hit the 3.

bigfoot · Post #1732 » by **bigfoot** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:19 am

1UPZ wrote:If Booker can simply improve his defense to mediocre and remain the same offensively I would be satisfied with him... Of course it would mean Suns still need a main option type star then... But point is... He cant be horrific defensively.

No Booker has to improve offensively too. If he can scored 20+ per game on .575 true shooting percentage and play a little defense then he will be a legit star. Putting up big numbers on a losing team with a low true shooting percentage and no defense is basically Brandon Knight.

Cutter · Post #1733 » by **Cutter** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:35 am

1UPZ wrote:I understand we all must support the suns youth and I do too.

But seeing the polls with Booker vs anyone tells me that some fans here have really high expectations of Booker which is fair but will likely lead to disappointment.

Yes... He will still improve... Yes he will be an amazing scorer... But he is far from being a top 15 player in the league... He needs to either be an elite scorer and offensive player (play making, passing etc, like Harden) or a good scorer and a good defender (Hayward, Butler, Kawhi, George etc)
for me to really be sold on him.

At this time and likely... He is going to be a 25-26ppg 3apg 4rpg type of player that is a poor defender. Good... But no contender MVP sadly... But its okay to love him... Suns need players like him gives positives to the fan base.

I just really want him to be a better defender....

Very fair, nice post. Well said.

Cutter · Post #1734 » by **Cutter** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:40 am

It's ok to love our young players, while being honest about what you think their ceiling will be.

MilotheSlayer · Post #1735 » by **MilotheSlayer** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:03 am

What are our thoughts on Wes Matthews? Would a contract swap of BKnight for Matthews interest anyone. I would toss in a 2nd round pick as well. Matthews is owed more money but is one less year. Matthews is 30 however while Knight still has a little potential in him at 25. Just a thought.

Post #1736 » by **ATTL** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:30 am

MilotheSlayer wrote:What are our thoughts on Wes Matthews? Would a contract swap of BKnight for Matthews interest anyone. I would toss in a 2nd round pick as well. Matthews is owed more money but is one less year. Matthews is 30 however while Knight still has a little potential in him at 25. Just a thought.

I think Wes would accept the role Knight is supposed to have. Plus like you said, one Lee year.

DirtyDez · Post #1737 » by **DirtyDez** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 am

Pelinka gets the better of Rich Paul. KCP 1/18m.

Ball
KCP
Ingram
Randle
Lopez
-
Clarkson
Hart
Kuzma/Deng
Nance Jr
Zubac

Probably going at it with the Lakers again for Worst in the West...

Mr Puddles · Post #1738 » by **Mr Puddles** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:54 am

^^ One less year is big to me, that basically means all our big contracts expire in two years. Combined with it being the year before Booker's extension will kick in, that's going to give us a lot of room to maneuver on the free agency and trade market (I believe we'd have a cap hold of about 26-30 mil + whatever Warren (who will have been extended by then)). Having multiple young assets and cap space puts us in a perfect position to trade and nap a difference maker or two to build around the young players we want to retain.

LukasBMW · Post #1739 » by **LukasBMW** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:56 am

Rich Paul sure putting his client in a risky situation.

Mr Puddles · Post #1740 » by **Mr Puddles** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:00 am

LukasBMW wrote:Rich Paul sure putting his client in a risky situation.

Rich Paul profited in the past few season from the anticipation that the cap would go up exponentially. Teams were willing to overpay because they figured an overpay today would become a reasonable contract tomorrow.

Now that the salary cap is actually lower than initially thought, teams are not going to put up with his negotiating tactics. KCP turned down a big contract from Detroit (80 mil 5 years) and will be lucky if he can get anything close to this from another team. He'll probably have to settle for a one year deal ala Reddick. Good to see Rich Paul fall flat on his face here bodes well for a smoother process this time around for the Bledsoe extension.