What is the vision?

[ByeByeDre]

Okay, it's time. Intelligent posters needed. I'll start with my Thoughts.....

When Stan started, he said this was a five year plan. And for awhile, you could see his vision rather clearly. Dumping Smith. Trading for Jackson. Trading for Morris. Trading for Harris. Getting good contracts with years on them, hope the players continue to appreciate, then make that package trade for a really good player. Even the minor deals and the ones that didn't work still made sense. I think for a long time most would say that Stan's moves were all going in the same direction.

Last year sucked. Andre woofed. Reggie was hurt. Rumors of dissention. Beyond free agent signings, no changes. No trades. Same players in the rotation - no contribution from recent draft picks. And in the three years of Stan's plan, we have gone from 29 to 37 wins!

So analyzing the recent transactions......

Drafting Kennard - had to draft someone, still on course
Trading Hilliard - meh
Signing Galloway - still on course? I suppose - looked like a backup to KCP at the time......
Signing Moreland - minor - looks like Boban's backup
Trading for Bradley - OFF COURSE!!! Traded a sweet two year deal for an expiring.... first time in a long time.....
Renounced KCP - WAY OFF COURSE! Even SVG said so in his presser - no need to go farther here, there's a forty page thread about it.....
These two transactions though free up time for more Stanley and Henry....... WAIT, WHAT? Developing youth? When has THAT been part of the plan? How is Avery Bradley going to like going from the Eastern Conference Finals to watching Henry Ellenson screw up defensive rotations in a contract year? As an UFA?
Then today..... signing Anthony Tolliver ..... who's going to play - Tolliver or Ellenson? Old or young? And now there are rumors that Reggie can be had for two bags of balls?

So everyone - WHAT'S STAN'S NEW PLAN? Does he plan to win 50 games with this group? Dazzling Bradley and convincing him to stay? Playing Tolliver in crunch time? TRADING DRUMMOND? Dumping Bradley at the deadline? Playing Kennard, Stanley, Henry and Moreland good minutes? Cashing his checks until Gores fires him?

So who can share Stan's new plan? Because I, for the life of me, can't figure it out.... thx in advance!

[MotownMadness]

It's Gores and SVGs vision of making playoffs at all cost. I would prefer a Hinkie style tank but if their dead set on the playoffs like they are then I don't think he's made any bad moves as he's upgrading the shooting and trying to get a bit of flexibility instead of going further down in cap hell with a max contract on a underperforming player.

[CubicalLake7]

It's Gores and SVGs vision of making playoffs at all cost. I would prefer a Hinkie style tank but if their dead set on the playoffs like they are then I don't think he's made any bad moves as he's upgrading the shooting and trying to get a bit of flexibility instead of going further down in cap hell with a max contract on a underperforming player.

Plenty of franchise owner and team executives are happy with perennial winners and playoff appearances as that is what generates revenue (fill seats, get TV time, sells merchandise). That is the goal, to have a winner and playoff team in place for the new arena. Gorew does not need a Championship Contender to sell boxes at the new arena.

[Neptune]

If SVG can make an upgrade at our 4 position, I think we'll be ok. I'm not a fan of SVG at all, I'm a fan of Drummond and who ever else plays defense on this team.

All in all, I hope SVG's vision is to play Piston basketball man. And I mean get players who play defense, get players with a chip on there shoulder and get players who's about winning.

[ByeByeDre]

It's Gores and SVGs vision of making playoffs at all cost. I would prefer a Hinkie style tank but if their dead set on the playoffs like they are then I don't think he's made any bad moves as he's upgrading the shooting and trying to get a bit of flexibility instead of going further down in cap hell with a max contract on a underperforming player.

If it's playoffs or bust, we'll see AT43 and no Henry. And one funk from Stanley and his minutes dry up too. Maybe Bullock gets his time.

[MotownMadness]

It's Gores and SVGs vision of making playoffs at all cost. I would prefer a Hinkie style tank but if their dead set on the playoffs like they are then I don't think he's made any bad moves as he's upgrading the shooting and trying to get a bit of flexibility instead of going further down in cap hell with a max contract on a underperforming player.

If it's playoffs or bust, we'll see AT43 and no Henry. And one funk from Stanley and his minutes dry up too. Maybe Bullock gets his time.

It's possible but I think Ellenson plays over Tolliver at least to start. If he doesn't play perfect panic mode will set in and he will be in the GLeague while Tolliver is out there again lol

[bstein14]

2017 - Draft 12th & Lose KCP for nothing.
2018 - Draft 13th & Lose Avery Bradley for nothing.
2019 - Draft 12th & Lose Tobias Harris for nothing.

[7r5ur]

2017 - Draft 12th & Lose KCP for nothing.
2018 - Draft 13th & Lose Avery Bradley for nothing.
2019 - Draft 12th & Lose Tobias Harris for nothing.

Spoiler:

2020 - Championship

[SamFlow]

Okay, it's time. Intelligent posters needed. I'll start with my Thoughts.....

When Stan started, he said this was a five year plan. And for awhile, you could see his vision rather clearly. Dumping Smith. Trading for Jackson. Trading for Morris. Trading for Harris. Getting good contracts with years on them, hope the players continue to appreciate, then make that package trade for a really good player. Even the minor deals and the ones that didn't work still made sense. I think for a long time most would say that Stan's moves were all going in the same direction.

Last year sucked. Andre woofed. Reggie was hurt. Rumors of dissention. Beyond free agent signings, no changes. No trades. Same players in the rotation - no contribution from recent draft picks. And in the three years of Stan's plan, we have gone from 29 to 37 wins!

So analyzing the recent transactions......

Drafting Kennard - had to draft someone, still on course
Trading Hilliard - meh
Signing Galloway - still on course? I suppose - looked like a backup to KCP at the time......
Signing Moreland - minor - looks like Boban's backup
Trading for Bradley - OFF COURSE!!! Traded a sweet two year deal for an expiring.... first time in a long time.....
Renounced KCP - WAY OFF COURSE! Even SVG said so in his presser - no need to go farther here, there's a forty page thread about it.....
These two transactions though free up time for more Stanley and Henry....... WAIT, WHAT? Developing youth? When has THAT been part of the plan? How is Avery Bradley going to like going from the Eastern Conference Finals to watching Henry Ellenson screw up defensive rotations in a contract year? As an UFA?
Then today..... signing Anthony Tolliver ..... who's going to play - Tolliver or Ellenson? Old or young? And now there are rumors that Reggie can be had for two bags of balls?

So everyone - WHAT'S STAN'S NEW PLAN? Does he plan to win 50 games with this group? Dazzling Bradley and convincing him to stay? Playing Tolliver in crunch time? TRADING DRUMMOND? Dumping Bradley at the deadline? Playing Kennard, Stanley, Henry and Moreland good minutes? Cashing his checks until Gores fires him?

So who can share Stan's new plan? Because I, for the life of me, can't figure it out.... thx in advance!

Break the bank and not really improve?
or
Trade and sign smaller contracts and keep the same team essentially and see if tweaks will make the difference while NOT breaking the bank and possible having cap space ruined for years too come.

That's the way I see it. Slight upgrade in over all talent at sg. RJ to still be traded freeing up cap. Ellerson is junk. Last year for Stanley to show anything. Finally a shooter who can actually shoot and may not suck at defense. Meh, I don't expect that much more than what we have right now. Slightly better though. We should make the playoffs 7-8 spot.

[Pharaoh]

Okay, it's time. Intelligent posters needed. I'll start with my Thoughts.....

When Stan started, he said this was a five year plan. And for awhile, you could see his vision rather clearly. Dumping Smith. Trading for Jackson. Trading for Morris. Trading for Harris. Getting good contracts with years on them, hope the players continue to appreciate, then make that package trade for a really good player. Even the minor deals and the ones that didn't work still made sense. I think for a long time most would say that Stan's moves were all going in the same direction.

Last year sucked. Andre woofed. Reggie was hurt. Rumors of dissention. Beyond free agent signings, no changes. No trades. Same players in the rotation - no contribution from recent draft picks. And in the three years of Stan's plan, we have gone from 29 to 37 wins!

To be fair it was a high of 44 wins...

And yes the plan was working, right up until RJ got injured and all those forced post ups to Dre resulted in a **** show!

That's when the original 5 year plan ended IMO - because that's when SVG had real tangible proof that his big reason for coming here had not developed as much as Stan thought he should have.

That's when SVG offered Dre for Cousins and when that failed he heavily shopped RJ...and make no mistake landing Rubio would have been a major change for us. Instead the market was bare so...

New Plan:

So analyzing the recent transactions......

Drafting Kennard - had to draft someone, still on course
Trading Hilliard - meh
Signing Galloway - still on course? I suppose - looked like a backup to KCP at the time......
Signing Moreland - minor - looks like Boban's backup
Trading for Bradley - OFF COURSE!!! Traded a sweet two year deal for an expiring.... first time in a long time.....

Disagree that the Bradley move was off course in the new plan.

Maintains cap flexibility!
Upgrades a position!
Opens up minutes for SJ

That last one might seem off course but we're 2 years into his career and it's now or never.

Renounced KCP - WAY OFF COURSE! Even SVG said so in his presser - no need to go farther here, there's a forty page thread about it.....

SVG can blow whatever smoke he likes or put whatever spin out there he likes but the truth is after acquiring AB, signing Galloway & drafting Kennard they chose to cut bait with KCP & Rich Paul instead of waiting around to be thrown a bone that they really had no say in later.

How is Avery Bradley going to like going from the Eastern Conference Finals to watching Henry Ellenson screw up defensive rotations in a contract year? As an UFA?

He won't like it but as a player that's never had a big money deal having the ability to pay him more than anyone else is a step up in negotiations.

Then today..... signing Anthony Tolliver ..... who's going to play - Tolliver or Ellenson? Old or young? And now there are rumors that Reggie can be had for two bags of balls?

IF we deal RJ for that package it's a clear indication that there is a mandate to maintain as much financial flexibility as possible moving forward. Theory being trading 2 smaller deals is easier than one larger deal.

As for Tolliver - he's SVGs help in the locker room and insurance if Henry can't keep it going.

tl;dr:

The plan is to maintain as much cap flexibility as possible while moving forward while remaining as competitive as we can be while stuck with Gores BFF Dre!



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[ByeByeDre]

The plan is to maintain as much cap flexibility as possible while moving forward while remaining as competitive as we can be while stuck with Gores BFF Dre!

Face palm!

Great response overall, and this quote seems to say it all.... We're on the treadmill!

To me, there are a few teams with a definite plan to win a championship. Obviously the Warriors and Cavs. The Celtics and Rockets are going for it. The Spurs are up there. And the Sixers will finally release the hounds. That's six teams.

The others to me are in one way or another spinning their wheels. Clippers? Lipstick on a pig. Wizards? Max for Porter? Now Wall's not sure he wants to extend there? Toronto? Is the plan to see organic growth from 43 year old Serge Ibaka?

Back to the Pistons.... Stan's plan was to hitch the wagon to Dre and Reggie. Reggie's injury is unfortunate.... but right after the knee acted up, Stan goes out and says that they were aware of his knee, and knew it could be an issue going forward. Huh?

And finally, Dre. When your best (and highest paid) player doesn't work on his game, your team is going nowhere.

I predict this: 20 games in, 6-14, Dre and Stan are both gone, and someone else is brought in to tear it all down and start again.

In Hinkie We Trust!!!!!

[DCintheD]

There's no vision beyond the coming year. Never has been. It's always how can we improve from the previous year. No long term plan. Which is fine as long as it means SVG's days are numbered.

[Pharaoh]

The plan is to maintain as much cap flexibility as possible while moving forward while remaining as competitive as we can be while stuck with Gores BFF Dre!

Face palm!

Great response overall, and this quote seems to say it all.... We're on the treadmill!

Blame Gores!

The playoff mandate was given to Joe and if we had of made the playoffs last season we'd be paying the luxury tax for that squad! Gores said he was willing to pay, SVG said they were willing to pay...

When we didn't make the playoffs that changed to hard cap IMO

Convo probably had Gores ask SVG if he could make moves under the hard cap to get that playoff spot and SVG would have said yes

To me, there are a few teams with a definite plan to win a championship. Obviously the Warriors and Cavs. The Celtics and Rockets are going for it. The Spurs are up there. And the Sixers will finally release the hounds. That's six teams.

The others to me are in one way or another spinning their wheels. Clippers? Lipstick on a pig. Wizards? Max for Porter? Now Wall's not sure he wants to extend there? Toronto? Is the plan to see organic growth from 43 year old Serge Ibaka?

Don't know or care about what everyone else is doing to renovate when our house is built of cards

Back to the Pistons.... Stan's plan was to hitch the wagon to Dre and Reggie. Reggie's injury is unfortunate.... but right after the knee acted up, Stan goes out and says that they were aware of his knee, and knew it could be an issue going forward. Huh?

And finally, Dre. When your best (and highest paid) player doesn't work on his game, your team is going nowhere.

The plan has never been to build around RJ IMO - he was simply the "best" PG we could acquire for peanuts at the time.

It's always been about Dre - he's why SVG came here. He's the roll man in our PnR heavy offense that is a dinosaur in the NBA.

SVG came to the conclusion last Nov/Dec that Dre was not the guy to build around...and he's been blocked by Gores when it comes to trading him.

IF the first time Gores blocked it SVG threatened to quit over that maybe things are different? Maybe it would have shown Gores SVG was serious enough...

Now?

We're treadmill, which hasn't really changed from the start.

What's changed is that we're shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg but before it's split in 2

I predict this: 20 games in, 6-14, Dre and Stan are both gone, and someone else is brought in to tear it all down and start again.

In Hinkie We Trust!!!!!

We wish for The Demolition Man but I don't think we'll see that. Gores wants his community asset to make the playoffs every year and bring happy happy joy joy feelings year after year....

And that involves the social media magnate Dre...doesn't absolutely have to include SVG but I doubt Gores fires him.

When you hire someone to rebuild & restructure your entire organization do you fire that guy after 4 years?

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[vic]

The new Vision is CHAUNCEY BILLUPS Pistons GM

[ByeByeDre]

I put a lot of this on the NBA and the union - the one year spike in the salary cap has created a team that only a few can catch. And Durant just took 9 million less to keep the core together?

As a different poster mentioned, making the playoffs and having a couple home games helps the bottom line. Unfortunately, for the Pistons and half the league, that's the ceiling for the foreseeable future.

[ByeByeDre]

When you hire someone to rebuild & restructure your entire organization do you fire that guy after 4 years?

Don't want to go too far off on this tangent, but in the NBA? Yes. In business? I work for one of the most recognizable companies and we've had four guys in ten years. Heck, we vote for a president every four years. When Stan leaves, the theme of the presser will be, "Someone else will be better to take the franchise in a new direction". Stan had his vision and it hasn't worked out. Should we give him another chance to try again? Dumars had that opportunity.....

[Pharaoh]

I put a lot of this on the NBA and the union - the one year spike in the salary cap has created a team that only a few can catch. And Durant just took 9 million less to keep the core together?

As a different poster mentioned, making the playoffs and having a couple home games helps the bottom line. Unfortunately, for the Pistons and half the league, that's the ceiling for the foreseeable future.

That's part of it I'm sure mate.

SVGs whole thought process is:

IF 10 teams are tanking then we'll never out-tank them - and tanking hasn't resulted in a title!

(Sidenote: the land of absolutes boggles my mind. Title or Lotto? What about the area inbetween?)

IF there's 3 or 4 real title contenders then what's the harm in going for that 5th spot?

That's SVGs attitude and he's always pushing for those moves to get to that point...

Because he believes if you're there or thereabouts then with a little luck it could be you!

Doesn't matter if any of us agree with it. I've heard SVG say it often enough.

I don't believe anything he says that's directly related to players, teams, games cause there's a lot of messages sent through the media

But as far as his philosophy? He's stayed consistent on that his whole career

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[Blkbrd671]

To make playoffs from this point forward and hope our young kids develop. AB, if healthy, literally gurantees us the playoffs in the east. Unfortunately that means also paying AB a sh* ton of money.

RJ
AB
Dre

That is the vision at least while SVG's here and they aren't old

[Joe Berry]

Building around Drummond has failed. But i can't fault SVG for trying. Drummond has the physical tools but lacks everything else to be a great player. Our best player was Jackson and he got hurt and might never be the same again. Both of their trade values are at an all time low, its not so easy to push the reset button under this circumstances.

So we are stuck in mediocrity with a bunch of solid players. The plan never was to tank and rebuild through the draft. The plan never was to wait for a free agents that never come to Detroit anyway. The plan was to build this team around Drummond as well as they could and then maybe trade some of our solid/good players for a great one. Unfortunately the whole team didn't perform as expected last year and the trade value of our guys went down too. So we had to let go one of our best, young players in KCP for nothing and trade our best value contract in Morris to replace KCP.
(still a bit disappointed the Pistons could not make a move for George or Butler, these are top 10-12 guys and got traded for nothing)

All that said it should still be enough for a playoff seed in the East. The talk before the start of last season was so positive because the Pistons made the playoffs for the first time in forever, but in retrospective they might have overperformed the previous year. This team certainly is not good enough to contend anytime soon and its way too good to get a top lottery pick (that doesnt guarantee nothing but the chances to get a great player are higher)

The Pistons are stuck in mediocrity like 70-80% of the teams in the NBA.

[El Chivo]

SVG's tenure deserves a C- right now.

I appreciated Bradley's trade and I think that if team is struggling at the deadline, he'll forced to start a firesale,