Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion 3: #TheTimeline

[Mulhollanddrive]

Sounds like McDonough is all in on #thetimeline he said the Western Conference is a brutal bloodbath at the moment and that if / when we can develop our young core they then should be good for a decade.

Breaking that criteria down simply means 2 of Booker, Jackson, Chriss, Warren, Bender, Ulis, 2018 pick have to become All-Stars for this to work, if not it's going to be ugly for a long time.

[thamadkant]

Booker has been in the league two years and comparing him to Klay, Hayward, Kawhi - not fair. Unless you can go see video of all of those players at the same time

And I was okay with Booker being more "Klay-like" than "Hayward-like" - give me a guy who can flat out shoot the rock and score 20-22 ppg - good enough for me

Yes, his defense needs to get better. But he should improve as he gets older, smarter, etc. Compare Booker to a guy like Ingram - one year apart. Or other 2/3 guys in their second or third years.

You cannot compare Booker to Ingram... they dont have similar game styles.

Booker does not play like Klay... Booker is playing with the ball in his hands more... a lot more than Klay who is a catch and shoot SG.
And game style and defensive abilities are usually evident very early in a player's career.

As bwgood stated, Booker and D'Angelo Russell are actually a fair comparison, with Russell being a better overall player so far and Booker the better scorer.


And my point is.... Booker has a very high expectations from a lot of Suns fans here, which I feel is likely to disappoint because of his lack of defense, he may score 30 points most night, but if he gives up 30 points to other guards then its like Amare all over again....

[suns91fan]

Booker has been in the league two years and comparing him to Klay, Hayward, Kawhi - not fair. Unless you can go see video of all of those players at the same time

And I was okay with Booker being more "Klay-like" than "Hayward-like" - give me a guy who can flat out shoot the rock and score 20-22 ppg - good enough for me

Yes, his defense needs to get better. But he should improve as he gets older, smarter, etc. Compare Booker to a guy like Ingram - one year apart. Or other 2/3 guys in their second or third years.

You cannot compare Booker to Ingram... they dont have similar game styles.

Booker does not play like Klay... Booker is playing with the ball in his hands more... a lot more than Klay who is a catch and shoot SG.
And game style and defensive abilities are usually evident very early in a player's career.

As bwgood stated, Booker and D'Angelo Russell are actually a fair comparison, with Russell being a better overall player so far and Booker the better scorer.


And my point is.... Booker has a very high expectations from a lot of Suns fans here, which I feel is likely to disappoint because of his lack of defense, he may score 30 points most night, but if he gives up 30 points to other guards then its like Amare all over again....

I think we missed a golden opportunity to get rid of Knight by shipping him and Booker to Nets for Lopez and 27th pick. Damn, those Lakers always one step ahead of us. I assume we tried something like that, but Nets thought Lakers' offer to be more enticing (since Russell > Booker).

[NavLDO]

To follow up on my post about team building one area I think my mindset has changed some of the past few years is I understand more why some teams who are winning but seem to be a bit "treadmilly" don't just blow it up. Take the Raptors for example they spent a ton of money this summer on a team that realistically isn't going to get past the Cavs short of some catastrophic injuries. But hell they are a 50+ win team so I get why they don't just burn it down and start over. It's hard to get back to on the mountain top. I was definitely guilty of saying the Suns should have blown up the team in those later Nash years. And maybe they should have but I understand more now why they didn't.

They are making moves, though. They shouldn't 'blow up' a winning team; just try different things to be competitive, like trading for Ibaka, drafting a top 10 pick last year, drafting a top 5 talent with injury history, but if ever get's that settled, they've got a blue-chip player. They have DeRozan, and Valanciunas...well, maybe you are right...they should blow it up...

...trade Val to us for Chriss, and our 2 draftpicks next year, and a young combo-guard who just needs a change of scenery in Knight...seems fair to me!

What is your deal with Val? Raps fans are not particularly high on him and some want to dump him. I don't think he's really worth his contract. I thought I saw an earlier variation with Chriss and Warren both? I wouldn't want us to trade a 2nd rounder for him. Their forum has a thread about moving him to the bench in favor of Poeltl...he is not particularly good defensively and isn't that good of a rim protector. I mean he would be an upgrade in what we have in some ways but not someone I'd give up picks or young players for.

So which is it with you...first you say no one will trade anything worthwhile for Knight and two draft picks, the same post I had Val listed as one of the players. So now I throw in another asset, Chriss, in a addition to the aforementioned pkg, and you are telling me that's too much?

And the variation you saw earlier was Val listed amongst other potential players...Drummond, Nurkic, Vucevic, so on and so forth. And in that e-mail, you said nothing that I listed in my list, which included Warren, as potential assets to use, were worth anything worthwhile? It's like you desire to shoot down anything I propose just for the sake of shooting it down, even if it means you end up contradicting yourself.

And you go to the Rap forum to find out if he's any good, or worthwhile as a target? How many fans here wanted to bench Bledsoe for Ulis, and had compelling arguments to do so. Would you expect a poster from another bard to go back to his and say 'Phx fans don't like Bledsoe, they's rather Ulis start, so Bledsoe must not be any good.' Imagine that...a fan base that wants their lotto pick to start over the incumbent...never seen that happen around here, have we? And while it's only one list, USA Today has him ranked 92nd overall. Warren?? 154th Chriss?? 228th. So I fail to see how that's such an abomination of value for a young Center that averages 12/9.5 in 25 MPG. Sometimes, as we all know, a change in scenery can do a player well.

Anyway, I'm scouring the teams for young, talented, NBA-tested Centers and on a lesser scale, PFs, and his name, along with Drummond, Nurkic, and a few others popped up, so I listed them.

[bwgood77]

They are making moves, though. They shouldn't 'blow up' a winning team; just try different things to be competitive, like trading for Ibaka, drafting a top 10 pick last year, drafting a top 5 talent with injury history, but if ever get's that settled, they've got a blue-chip player. They have DeRozan, and Valanciunas...well, maybe you are right...they should blow it up...

...trade Val to us for Chriss, and our 2 draftpicks next year, and a young combo-guard who just needs a change of scenery in Knight...seems fair to me!

What is your deal with Val? Raps fans are not particularly high on him and some want to dump him. I don't think he's really worth his contract. I thought I saw an earlier variation with Chriss and Warren both? I wouldn't want us to trade a 2nd rounder for him. Their forum has a thread about moving him to the bench in favor of Poeltl...he is not particularly good defensively and isn't that good of a rim protector. I mean he would be an upgrade in what we have in some ways but not someone I'd give up picks or young players for.

So which is it with you...first you say no one will trade anything worthwhile for Knight and two draft picks, the same post I had Val listed as one of the players. So now I throw in another asset, Chriss, in a addition to the aforementioned pkg, and you are telling me that's too much?

And the variation you saw earlier was Val listed amongst other potential players...Drummond, Nurkic, Vucevic, so on and so forth. And in that e-mail, you said nothing that I listed in my list, which included Warren, as potential assets to use, were worth anything worthwhile? It's like you desire to shoot down anything I propose just for the sake of shooting it down, even if it means you end up contradicting yourself.

And you go to the Rap forum to find out if he's any good, or worthwhile as a target? How many fans here wanted to bench Bledsoe for Ulis, and had compelling arguments to do so. Would you expect a poster from another bard to go back to his and say 'Phx fans don't like Bledsoe, they's rather Ulis start, so Bledsoe must not be any good.' Imagine that...a fan base that wants their lotto pick to start over the incumbent...never seen that happen around here, have we? And while it's only one list, USA Today has him ranked 92nd overall. Warren?? 154th Chriss?? 228th. So I fail to see how that's such an abomination of value for a young Center that averages 12/9.5 in 25 MPG. Sometimes, as we all know, a change in scenery can do a player well.

Anyway, I'm scouring the teams for young, talented, NBA-tested Centers and on a lesser scale, PFs, and his name, along with Drummond, Nurkic, and a few others popped up, so I listed them.

Well, I didn't see Knight included in the first one, and I saw Knight AND Chriss included in the second one. I do think someone worthwhile could be gotten attaching 2 first round picks, Warren AND Chriss, and I don't think he's worthwhile, and wouldn't want to sign him anyway. He's not going to push the needle more than Warren and Chriss, particularly long term. I thought you were fairly high on Warren and will defend Len until you're blue in the face, and now you want to replace him with a mediocre center who is a slightly better rebounder and worse rim protector, who their fans don't like. I'm just telling you I'm not a big fan. Apparently neither is their FO long term since they traded up in the draft a year ago to take a C in Poeltl. Just my opinion...I'm not a fan...at all really, and don't think he improves our team, so I'm not going to give up two solid young pieces and two first rounders to get a guy I don't think makes us better.

[DaleyBlind]

Russell is better than Booker, in reality one was used to dump a bad contract and the other is praised throughout the league by fellow players about being a special talent. But Russell is better than Booker guys

[Frank Lee]

Sounds like McDonough is all in on #thetimeline he said the Western Conference is a brutal bloodbath at the moment and that if / when we can develop our young core they then should be good for a decade.

Breaking that criteria down simply means 2 of Booker, Jackson, Chriss, Warren, Bender, Ulis, 2018 pick have to become All-Stars for this to work, if not it's going to be ugly for a long time.

would you bet your job on it ? I think rather achieve All NBA.... (the All Star ballot stuffing campaign will be fierce). But then again, what did we do to our last All NBA selection ? Stuffed him in a corner to watch hero ball

McDo found his parachute, and it floats him right on pass his mediocre free agency and trade efforts over the past 3-4 years.

#timelinemyass

start passing them out fellas... you going to need them.... but just for fun, re-read Mul's last sentence above. It defies odds.

[pidi]

well, i think we are developing the young core until one of them is putting a joe johnson thing on us. it´s frustrating that we couldn´t level up our roster...

[BobbieL]

What are our thoughts on Wes Matthews? Would a contract swap of BKnight for Matthews interest anyone. I would toss in a 2nd round pick as well. Matthews is owed more money but is one less year. Matthews is 30 however while Knight still has a little potential in him at 25. Just a thought.

I think Wes would accept the role Knight is supposed to have. Plus like you said, one Lee year.

I would do that deal since Wes Matthews expires in two years

Maybe I got it wrong but when this was suggested earlier, I thought he expired in three

But if the Mavs would do this deal - gratned Cuban has money - but if Cuban would - I think the Suns do it. Clean in 2019

Mavs would want the Suns to probably take on Barea - who is owed about 7.6m more - so 44m for 36m

Nope - Matthews for Knight and the Mavs can get a second rounder - sold

[BobbieL]

Sounds like McDonough is all in on #thetimeline he said the Western Conference is a brutal bloodbath at the moment and that if / when we can develop our young core they then should be good for a decade.

Breaking that criteria down simply means 2 of Booker, Jackson, Chriss, Warren, Bender, Ulis, 2018 pick have to become All-Stars for this to work, if not it's going to be ugly for a long time.

The Warriors got it to work with Curry, Klay and Desmond, trading for Iggy and filling in.

I think Booker and Jackson can be Stars - the others very good role players.

Fill in with trades, free agency

[Preacherpj]

Russell is better than Booker, in reality one was used to dump a bad contract and the other is praised throughout the league by fellow players about being a special talent. But Russell is better than Booker guys

I think they are about equal... I really like Booker's ability to score in multiple ways, I think that's something Russell doesn't have as much of.... but the point remains - neither is a superstar and both have a ways to go to get there.

For Booker I'm not as worried about the shot efficiency, as he matures and gets surrounded by better players I think that naturally gets better............ its just all about his defense. If he can become a league average defensive player, then we can start cooking. If he continues to be abysmal, then he's basically a wash. Fun player to watch, but if you're giving up 20 PPG - it doesn't really matter if you're scoring 20 PPG.

[BobbieL]

Russell is better than Booker, in reality one was used to dump a bad contract and the other is praised throughout the league by fellow players about being a special talent. But Russell is better than Booker guys

I think they are about equal... I really like Booker's ability to score in multiple ways, I think that's something Russell doesn't have as much of.... but the point remains - neither is a superstar and both have a ways to go to get there.

For Booker I'm not as worried about the shot efficiency, as he matures and gets surrounded by better players I think that naturally gets better............ its just all about his defense. If he can become a league average defensive player, then we can start cooking. If he continues to be abysmal, then he's basically a wash. Fun player to watch, but if you're giving up 20 PPG - it doesn't really matter if you're scoring 20 PPG.

I think Booker is progressing nicely after two years - but yes, needs to get better defensively. NO question about it Hopefully he does get better though and he and the other young guys mature together, find their roles and become a team and not parts.

[Preacherpj]

Honestly I think part of it is Booker needs to get surrounded by better players and the team needs to improve.

Defense is large parts athletic ability + desire...... its natural to not care as much when the team is terrible and shutting down their best veterans. In other words, how much does Booker get better defensively if you just put him on a team chasing the playoffs and needing to actually win games down the stretch? My guess is he coasts a little bit defensively because it really didn't matter last year.

[BobbieL]

Honestly I think part of it is Booker needs to get surrounded by better players and the team needs to improve.

Defense is large parts athletic ability + desire...... its natural to not care as much when the team is terrible and shutting down their best veterans. In other words, how much does Booker get better defensively if you just put him on a team chasing the playoffs and needing to actually win games down the stretch? My guess is he coasts a little bit defensively because it really didn't matter last year.

Yes, better players around him will also hide his lack of defense. A guy like JJ will be helpful to the overall team

I think part of having #TheTimeline is also giving these players a chance to learn, grow and get better and not call them busts two games into a Summer Leage. Patience

The more I think about that Knight deal to Dallas - the more I like it. I doubt it happens as Cuban can afford it - but if they are looking to build a young core: Noel, Smith, Barnes - maybe they do it

Didn't we get an extra second from the RAptors for PJ - we can throw that in.

[matt131]

Read on Twitter

woj - Sources: Knicks, Rockets working on Carmelo Anthony trade scenarios that include four-team deals. Sides motivated but no agreement imminent.

[STEV13]

Read on Twitter

woj - Sources: Knicks, Rockets working on Carmelo Anthony trade scenarios that include four-team deals. Sides motivated but no agreement imminent.

Hope we can somehow get on this. Dump Knight for a pick or something. Huge salary number should help match whatsoever.

[BobbieL]

Woj Bomb

Thanks for posting Matt - beat me to it !

If the Suns are one of the teams - and they can take on salary - if they renounce Len, they have 19m of cap space to take on - but if the Suns are involved - if they take on Anderson, Knight has to be going somewhere. Has to be

I am not sure I would like Anderson for Knight to be honest - I would rather have - heck I don't know, Courtney Lee in a deal

I was able to do a three team deal so I realize Woj mentioned four teams but anyway
Rockets: Melo
Suns: Anderson/Quarterman
Knicks: Chandler/Knight/ONuaku from Rockets

For the Suns - they are sending out 70m of salary to take back basically 60m - but adding 6m to the third year - when Anderson - presumably, could be bought out or stretched

Now lets have the Knicks getting Anderson
Houston get Melo
Suns get: Noah and Quarterman
Knicks get Anderson, Knight and Onuaku

problem with this deal is the Suns get Noah and Chandler -that doesn't seem to work very well

so need a 4th team

[BobbieL]

Okay - I came up with a four team trade where the Suns do NOT get Ryan Anderson but have to take on Noah - I don't know how to paste ESPN Trade Machines but here goes

Milwaukee gets Tyson Chandler - -they get a bit of cash savings

Knicks get: Anderson, Knight and probably a draft pick from somebody and cap filler like Quarterman

Houston: Melo

Suns get: Noah -- (they have to take on a contract and he has three years left but lower then Anderson, more comparable to Knight), also get Teletovic and Spencer Hawes who is expiring plus a first round pick from Houston or Milwaukee

Not sure how this helps the Suns but its a trade

[Qwigglez]

Lebron needs to be GM again and try to get Melo before the Rockets do.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yals9hse

Suns get-
Kyrie Irving
Iman Shumpert

Cavs get-
Eric Bledsoe
Carmelo Anthony

Knicks get-
Brandon Knight
Channing Frye
2018 Miami 1st

May be able to fleece GM Lebron

[NTB]

Irving love here... I don't get it.