Rumors Surfacing of Houston, Portland, NYK Trade

[PDXKnight]

Harkless is who the Knicks have wanted from the beginning and they have put pressure on HOU to make it work so that is who they get if the Rockets want 'Melo. No one really wants Anderson out of the deal but for Portland, the cost of getting rid of some of the other contracts was Harkless if that is the way it goes down. Olshey having to pay for last summer's spending.

If the Meyers/ et signings cost us Mo olshey should be canned

[Fitz303]

Harkless is who the Knicks have wanted from the beginning and they have put pressure on HOU to make it work so that is who they get if the Rockets want 'Melo. No one really wants Anderson out of the deal but for Portland, the cost of getting rid of some of the other contracts was Harkless if that is the way it goes down. Olshey having to pay for last summer's spending.

If the Meyers/ et signings cost us Mo olshey should be canned

I stood with Olshey so far, and am giving him the benefit of the doubt until the last minute, but if this does in fact happen, I agree, Olshey has to go. We all want Meyers gone, but you made one good signing last summer, don't mess this up. If Harkless is gone and Evan Turner remains, I hope Olshey is fired the same day that this trade is made.

[PDXKnight]

Harkless is who the Knicks have wanted from the beginning and they have put pressure on HOU to make it work so that is who they get if the Rockets want 'Melo. No one really wants Anderson out of the deal but for Portland, the cost of getting rid of some of the other contracts was Harkless if that is the way it goes down. Olshey having to pay for last summer's spending.

If the Meyers/ et signings cost us Mo olshey should be canned

I stood with Olshey so far, and am giving him the benefit of the doubt until the last minute, but if this does in fact happen, I agree, Olshey has to go. We all want Meyers gone, but you made one good signing last summer, don't mess this up. If Harkless is gone and Evan Turner remains, I hope Olshey is fired the same day that this trade is made.

Yeah even last off season most of us thought the Leonard and et signings made no sense. The et move was exceptionally odd considering that his style didn't fit a stotts offense on paper anyhow and of course after we signed him he looked terrible here.

The one saving grace for me is Nurkic. Olshey got us a beast at the trade deadline last season and had that not happened I wouldn't even have the slightest amount of respect for his management abilities right nlw

[BlazersBroncos]

I am in agreement, if Neil has to deal Mo because he idiotically paid a tall paperweight 10M per season, then it may be time to hand him his walking papers. The only guys on the squad with the potential to improve upon their current talent levels are our big 3, the rookies and Mo, IMHO. I don't see Vonleh becoming more than a stopgap, replacement level PF and Crabbe is what he is.

Dealing him would be a huge blow. He is only going to get better.

[bob2]

People seem to forget that Olshey brought Harkless to Portland for free.
Why blame him for last years signings and forget about the great trades he did ?

This "Olshey has to go" campaign is a bit ridiculous.
I never understood this constant need to criticize players, GMs, owners... It looks like people always need someone to blame.

[Fitz303]

People seem to forget that Olshey brought Harkless to Portland for free.
Why blame him for last years signings and forget about the great trades he did ?

This "Olshey has to go" campaign is a bit ridiculous.
I never understood this constant need to criticize players, GMs, owners... It looks like people always need someone to blame.

Absolutely true that he got him for free. But just because you made a good move to get someone, doesn't mean that you should have free reign to give the guy away as well, and everyone should be ok with it. Olshey has made some good moves, and he's made some questionable/bad moves. Since Olshey traded for him, Moe has become the starting SF of this playoff team, and one of the best defenders on the team. Olshey should not be able to give that away, just to right the wrongs that he made last summer.

[BlazersBroncos]

Absolutely true that he got him for free. But just because you made a good move to get someone, doesn't mean that you should have free reign to give the guy away as well, and everyone should be ok with it. Olshey has made some good moves, and he's made some questionable/bad moves. Since Olshey traded for him, Moe has become the starting SF of this playoff team, and one of the best defenders on the team. Olshey should not be able to give that away, just to right the wrongs that he made last summer.

Exactly. Buying low on Harkless was a great move. Getting him resigned at 10M was a great move. Dealing for Nurkic was a great move.

Paying ET, Myers and to a lesser extent Crabbe were HORRIBLE moves.

So three great moves, three horrible moves.

Now Neil is going to have to basically negate two of the three great moves, the ones pertaining to Mo, to help alleviate a horrible move.

[Soulyss]

If Lee/O'Quinn were coming in and Harkless/Leonard were going out, what would you think?

That's not terrible, but it's not great either. If there was a pick coming back to Portland, that would make it much more digestible.

[Soulyss]

With Hardeway Jr in NY, the Knicks are going to want to move Lee. Portland would likely
need to move O'Quinn unless they decide to park Collins in the G league.

I would prefer we keep the team together to see how the team looks with a fully integrated
Nurkic. Dumping a productive player in Harkless just to save $3 Million off our cap leaves
me cold for a productive team that is playing well with those supposedly toxic players
might lead to better offers if the team has any faith in those players.

If you have O'Quinn you could move Davis rather than parking Collins in the G league. I think O'Quinn makes Davis more irrelevant than Collins.

[Downtown]

Absolutely true that he got him for free. But just because you made a good move to get someone, doesn't mean that you should have free reign to give the guy away as well, and everyone should be ok with it. Olshey has made some good moves, and he's made some questionable/bad moves. Since Olshey traded for him, Moe has become the starting SF of this playoff team, and one of the best defenders on the team. Olshey should not be able to give that away, just to right the wrongs that he made last summer.

Exactly. Buying low on Harkless was a great move. Getting him resigned at 10M was a great move. Dealing for Nurkic was a great move.

Paying ET, Myers and to a lesser extent Crabbe were HORRIBLE moves.

So three great moves, three horrible moves.

Now Neil is going to have to basically negate two of the three great moves, the ones pertaining to Mo, to help alleviate a horrible move.

I wouldn't call matching for Crabbe horrible. It is becoming more normal for teams to match to keep their players. Definitely they paid a steep price for that, especially with the trade kicker, but wanting to keep him was okay.

Actually going after Evan Turner was okay as well. They were looking for a ball handler that was a good defensive player to help Lillard and McCollum and Turner had a really good year with Boston. The concept made sense. The troubling part was that they grossly overpaid and even Turner said he didn't know if he was worth $17mil or $12mil. My personal opinion is that because the better free agents passed on offers he panicked a little and made too generous an offer.

Leonard was a horrible move in my opinion. No question. All he did to justify his worth was put in a few good playoff games in limited minutes. If it would have been two years at $8mil per season I could have seen that. But not the full pull over four years.

If Lee/O'Quinn were coming in and Harkless/Leonard were going out, what would you think?

That's not terrible, but it's not great either. If there was a pick coming back to Portland, that would make it much more digestible.

If Harkless is a key in any deal and it moves out Leonard AND Portland gets Lee and O'Quinn and not Anderson then that does make it better. Look, none of us wants to see Harkless go but almost all of us wants to see Leonard go. And I think we realize in order to move a bad contract we need to add value. I'm okay with that. Small forward then becomes a committee position with Aminu, Crabbe, and Lee all taking turns manning it.

[Soulyss]

If Lee/O'Quinn were coming in and Harkless/Leonard were going out, what would you think?

That's not terrible, but it's not great either. If there was a pick coming back to Portland, that would make it much more digestible.

If Harkless is a key in any deal and it moves out Leonard AND Portland gets Lee and O'Quinn and not Anderson then that does make it better. Look, none of us wants to see Harkless go but almost all of us wants to see Leonard go. And I think we realize in order to move a bad contract we need to add value. I'm okay with that. Small forward then becomes a committee position with Aminu, Crabbe, and Lee all taking turns manning it.

Agreed, I like Harkless as well... but you are right you aren't going to dump someone like Leonard without adding value. This deal would also allow us to deal someone like Davis to a team needing a PF/C for a pick and not worry about our depth.

If you could get a good 2nd or a late 1st for Davis, now you have saved 10+ million (which is like 30 million with taxes.) gotten solid contributing vets, and a pick asset for Davis, Harkless, and Leonard. That isn't terrible.. but you might not do much better until Billy King gets another gig somewhere.

[zzaj]

I'd think hard about Mo/Leonard for essentially, Lee/Oquinn.

I believe Mo has a lower ceiling than we all seem to think. Lee's 3pt shooting would be a welcome addition, as well as his defense on guards. Oquinn would allow Davis to be moved for a small asset.

I don't really get the 'starter for bench players' argument. Mo is a starter more by defacto than anything else. "starter" status is dependent on the talent level at the position.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Where is Lee going to play? We now have 3 backup SG's in Turner, Crabbe, and Lee. Sure, they can play SF, but that is not ideal either. Sure, Amina can play SF, but I dunno how ideal thst is either. Does the deal save the Blazers any money and if so, is it enough to justify the trade? I am not a fan of dumping Harkless just to get rid of Leonard.

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[Blazers98]

[quote="

Actually going after Evan Turner was okay as well. They were looking for a ball handler that was a good defensive player to help Lillard and McCollum and Turner had a really good year with Boston. The concept made sense. The troubling part was that they grossly overpaid and even Turner said he didn't know if he was worth $17mil or $12mil. My personal opinion is that because the better free agents passed on offers he panicked a little and made too generous an offer.

.[/quote]

This is where I question Olshey. He just got so much wrong with this.
#1 Yes, he got a ball handler but that ball handler can't shoot and in the modern NBA, that is a big issue. We seem to do just fine when the ball handler Turner isn't on the court.
#2 As you indicated, he vastly overpaid for absolutely no reason. Nobody in the league would offer Turner more than 12 million a year yet Olshey offered 17 mil. Even if he really wanted Turner and thought he was going to make us a better team, he could have offered 13 mil and then have a 97% chance of getting him. That is just demonstratively poor judgement.

Basically he targeted the wrong guy and then vastly overpaid for that wrong guy. Then he went on to sign Meyers and match Crabbe.

Is Olshey the mastermind behind the Nurkic deal? Who knows for sure but I don't think it takes a genius to do what he agreed to.
What probably happened was DEN had this disgruntled center who was impeding Jokic's development and they really wanted to unload him. They gave us a call knowing we were in the market for a center and they thought Plumlee would help their team out more than Nurkic. Great match. Good job Denver; not Olshey for simply saying yes. Now, maybe asking for the first rounder and getting it was a good call on his part but IMO any GM would have simply agreed to that Denver proposal.

[britblazerdude]

Im a fan of dumping Harkless if we need $ for Nurkic and he turns out to be the man. Plus, perhaps Swanigan is a solid starter within 3 seasons and we have something really real and competitive for finals put together before lillard and mccollum can think about leaving

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[BlazersBroncos]

Im a fan of dumping Harkless if we need $ for Nurkic and he turns out to be the man. Plus, perhaps Swanigan is a solid starter within 3 seasons and we have something really real and competitive for finals put together before lillard and mccollum can think about leaving

Swanigan becoming a solid player and Portland dumping Harkless are totally unrelated. We can have Swanigan become a solid PF while ALSO keeping Mo as a solid 3/D guy.

I would much, much rather trade a R1 with Myers to jettison him (And this can be done, as DeMaree showed) than attach Harkless.

Whatever happens happens, but I don't think any of the players being mentioned around Harkless are as good long term fits or have as high a talent ceiling as Mo.

Courtney Lee is a backup SG. We have Crabbe.
Kyle O'Quinn is a expiring backup C. We have Ed Davis this year and Zach Collins / Caleb Swaigan next.
Ryan Anderson is a bubble starting PF. We have a number of bubble starting PFs, for FAR cheaper, in Vonleh/Aminu/Rookies

Harkless is a starting caliber SF, younger than Lee/O'Quinn/Anderson by numerous years, and with a steady arching developmental curve. He is a long term fit at SF, he is cheap, he is versatile, he is improving, etc.

[HoopsFanAZ]

I like Harkless for the Blazers, but he's not crucial. He's young enough to still have significant growth to his game, but he looks like a good 6th or 7th man on a playoff team. Those guys are important, but I like Aminu's game about as much for 1 less year and fewer $$$. Neither one is the starting SF for a contending team. And PF just got pretty crowded.

I've tried to be a Leonard fan (the player on the court); he seems like a good guy. And he has a Marine for a brother. And he loves his dog. But he won't get court time for the Blazers. I wish him well, elsewhere.

PF looks pretty crowded. Aminu likely returns to SF resulting in two REALLY overpaid backups. Turner and/or Crabbe needs a trade. Too many $$$ and not enough production for backup SG and SF minutes.

So, yes, I want to see the Blazers in on the Knicks-Rockets-trade-o-rama. Firing Olshey over this? or last summer's signings No. Agree to disagree over this one given that Lillard, McCollum, and Nurkic are the focus. Who gets to start and play around that core can and should change.

[DusterBuster]

I think a majority of fans here have overrated Mo's potential/value. He's a nice enough player, but he's getting talked about like he's a crucial building block the Blazers are giving up. As for his value, keep in mind Portland got him for free and that absolutely no other team even sniffed him in RFA last summer. As for his potential, I've seen him called a 3&D guy a lot but people seem to forget he really isn't a great 3pt shooter, having to purposely not shoot any 3pt attempts his last game of the year just to scratch out .350% average from 3. I mean, yeah, he's young enough to still have some untapped potential, but what realistically can he turn into on a team with 2 high volume scoring guards and a bigman who's going to be taking a good number of shots himself now? I just think the Mo we've seen is the Mo we'll always see here in Portland given his role and opportunities. That's a nice enough player, but people here are making it out like we're trading CJ to dump Meyers.....

Common now.

[PDXKnight]

I like Harkless for the Blazers, but he's not crucial. He's young enough to still have significant growth to his game, but he looks like a good 6th or 7th man on a playoff team. Those guys are important, but I like Aminu's game about as much for 1 less year and fewer $$$. Neither one is the starting SF for a contending team. And PF just got pretty crowded.

I've tried to be a Leonard fan (the player on the court); he seems like a good guy. And he has a Marine for a brother. And he loves his dog. But he won't get court time for the Blazers. I wish him well, elsewhere.

PF looks pretty crowded. Aminu likely returns to SF resulting in two REALLY overpaid backups. Turner and/or Crabbe needs a trade. Too many $$$ and not enough production for backup SG and SF minutes.

So, yes, I want to see the Blazers in on the Knicks-Rockets-trade-o-rama. Firing Olshey over this? or last summer's signings No. Agree to disagree over this one given that Lillard, McCollum, and Nurkic are the focus. Who gets to start and play around that core can and should change.

I'm not a huge aminu fan personally, at least if he plays anything like he did last season.

Turner and Meyers even at the time looked questionable, personally wouldn't blame pa for firing olshey over 60 million a year in total wasted salaries. These are guys who actually make this team worse when they're in

[Wizenheimer]

I wouldn't call matching for Crabbe horrible. It is becoming more normal for teams to match to keep their players. Definitely they paid a steep price for that, especially with the trade kicker, but wanting to keep him was okay.

Actually going after Evan Turner was okay as well.

sure you can isolate one of two decisions and try and justify them, maybe do so effectively

but that's not the way to judge a GM's job performance, IMO. You have to look at the aggregate of the decisions and do so in the context of the team

the team had just overachieved for a season and was in feel-good mode. But all that overachieving came with some asterisks; they had a hot streak that drastically changed their record, then they cooled off. And they drew a 1st round opponent that lost 2 elite players to injury (Paul and Griffin) while a 3rd starter was hobbled with a bad ankle (Reddick)

part of a GM's job is to not overrate a hot streak or success against injured opponents. Yet, he went out and signed 3 players that were average, at best, to 47M dollars a year. For chrissakes, the cap was only 94M and he signed 3 bench players to half of the damn cap for a team that was close to being a .500 ball club; three below average players (aggregate) added to an average team for half the salary cap... That was the aggregate decision and it was stupid at the time and still is today

They were looking for a ball handler that was a good defensive player to help Lillard and McCollum and Turner had a really good year with Boston. The concept made sense. The troubling part was that they grossly overpaid and even Turner said he didn't know if he was worth $17mil or $12mil. My personal opinion is that because the better free agents passed on offers he panicked a little and made too generous an offer.

what bugged me right off the bat was the cost. Turner had a career TS% of 49% when the NBA average was over 54%; he had a career PER of 12.4 when the NBA median was 15.0; he had a anemic winshare/48 of 0.52; he had a career box plus/minus of right around negative 2.0; and his career VORP is negative as well. Overall, he was (and is) a below average player who was signed when the average NBA salary was under 6M/year and the newer adjusted average was going to be around 8M/year; yet he was signed for 17.5M a year, more then twice the average

and his one supposed offensive strength, ball-handling and play-making, came at the expense of him pounding the ball...a lot, which works against the strength of Portland's best player. And, unfortunately, his defense was overrated; while he can defend bigger players, he can't seem to combine the quickness and/or length to defend speed (neither does any other wing except Harkless); so his impact on the perimeter defense wasn't as big as advertised