Wizards Summer League/Training Camp thread

[NatP4]

But why the hell they would sign Robinson is beyond me, that dude is about 100 pounds away from being a raw prospect. Keene is by far the better prospect even without the size.

If only they could un trade for Frazier and use that pick on Keene and give him a roster spot. Better fit, better scorer, cheaper, higher ceiling.

Assuming one of Ochefu/McCullough is released, no way they keep Robinson/Young/Ochefu/McCullough. Once again we probably run the risk of watching Keene walk away to another team for guaranteed money over just a training camp invite.

Michael Young is the better prospect to me

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The above assumes that they pick up Mac's/Ochefu's options. Seems likely, but I don't think they've done so yet.

[payitforward]

But why the hell they would sign Robinson is beyond me, that dude is about 100 pounds away from being a raw prospect. Keene is by far the better prospect even without the size.

If only they could un trade for Frazier and use that pick on Keene and give him a roster spot. Better fit, better scorer, cheaper, higher ceiling.

Assuming one of Ochefu/McCullough is released, no way they keep Robinson/Young/Ochefu/McCullough. Once again we probably run the risk of watching Keene walk away to another team for guaranteed money over just a training camp invite.

Michael Young is the better prospect to me

McCullough has a guaranteed contract, nat. Not an option. Nor will Ernie ever "release" him -- that would expose an error on his part, & he doesn't do that. He'll be included in some kind of trade.

Young & Robinson are on two-way contracts. They are our 16th & 17th players. Not part of the regular roster.

One sure thing: you don't have any idea what kind of an NBA prospect Keene is. You've seen him for 20 minutes or so plus a highlight reel of him against sub-par college competition.

If they could "un-trade" Frazier, why would you go with Keene. What about the 9 guys drafted from 52-60? None of them any good?

[Tricky_Kid]

After watching four games, there is nobody to get excited about, nobody who is a definite rotation player next season. I will give Mac credit for hitting two 3s and actually taking them in the second half. He appears to be all about the drive and doesn't have enough confidence in his 3-point shot yet. Let's face it, with Meeks' injury history, they'll need a guy who can step in for at least 20-30 games as a backup 2. He's a much better fit with Wall and probably Frazier than Sato is, unless Sato comes in with more confidence and a few more pounds in the upper body.

Keene is fun to watch at times and frustrating as well. Robinson abused him several times off the dribble and I'm guessing that Monmouth kid is not an NBA player. I'd like to see him get in the lane more and create on the offensive end. He's definitely worth a training camp invite but not ready to get two-day deal. Young already has it and he's getting better facing the basket. I think he has a chance to be solid; not great if he plays at least 1 year in D-League. I don't think Robinson is worth it. He has shown basically nothing in the SL.

It comes down to what they are going to do with Ocheefu and McCullough. McCullough would be fine if he was on a two-day deal, but he's not close to being a rotation player. Just too weak defensively and doesn't do much from the perimeter. Ochefu can't jump and can't score in bunches but he's a sound passer and solid defender. If we can find a better option who is just as cheap, don't sign him. If not, he's serviceable as a third center.

Can I ask You about Ochefu cause I didn't watch first 2 games, are U really believe he can be serviceable on NBA level?
Watching him lastly I noticed he is very slow, fouled too much, and he is black hole at offense. He is moving and jumping like old man.

[NatP4]

But why the hell they would sign Robinson is beyond me, that dude is about 100 pounds away from being a raw prospect. Keene is by far the better prospect even without the size.

If only they could un trade for Frazier and use that pick on Keene and give him a roster spot. Better fit, better scorer, cheaper, higher ceiling.

Assuming one of Ochefu/McCullough is released, no way they keep Robinson/Young/Ochefu/McCullough. Once again we probably run the risk of watching Keene walk away to another team for guaranteed money over just a training camp invite.

Michael Young is the better prospect to me

McCullough has a guaranteed contract, nat. Not an option. Nor will Ernie ever "release" him -- that would expose an error on his part, & he doesn't do that. He'll be included in some kind of trade.

Young & Robinson are on two-way contracts. They are our 16th & 17th players. Not part of the regular roster.

One sure thing: you don't have any idea what kind of an NBA prospect Keene is. You've seen him for 20 minutes or so plus a highlight reel of him against sub-par college competition.

If they could "un-trade" Frazier, why would you go with Keene. What about the 9 guys drafted from 52-60? None of them any good?

What is the point of these posts PIF? He's played in 4 summer league games and been a positive plus minus in every game and scored the ball efficiently against summer league competition.

I mean, sorry I don't like your guy Thornwell? I like the fit of Keene and Satoransky/Mac. Keene shows the ability to score from any level of the court off the dribble, can turn the corner against defenders. Of course we have to see him against training camp competition.

I stand by what I said, I would NOT guarentee Ochefu's contract because he has no NBA talent in my opinion, I understand that Robinson and Young are the 16th and 17th guys, I would sign Keene to the NBA roster. Wouldn't have signed Robinson at all, he's awful and weighs about 100 lbs too light to play the wing in the NBA (which he couldn't anyways, he's a 4)

[NatP4]

I would be dumbfounded if they picked up Ochefu's option. He's far too slow to ever defend NBA players, he's been fouling at an insane rate because he can't move his feet at all. He's like a Roy Hibbert, doesn't fit this new NBA at all. He has a soft touch around the basket and nice passing ability though

[Tricky_Kid]

We should guarantee Mac's contract and give Keene the other two way deal and let them battle it out in training camp. I'm cutting McCullough and Ochefu if it's me. Let Keene score against D league competition and play against other NBA guys in preseason, see if his scoring translates. See how Young matches up physically against those NBA guys.

I would do the same. Cut Ochefu and McCullough they won't contribute on our team soon enough (if ever) to keep them.
Mac needs to be our bench player and after we signed Young I would give the chance to Keene. With all his faults he can score and pass, his defence is terrible but he has more upside than let's say Burke or Jennings who had chance and waisted it.

[80sballboy]

After watching four games, there is nobody to get excited about, nobody who is a definite rotation player next season. I will give Mac credit for hitting two 3s and actually taking them in the second half. He appears to be all about the drive and doesn't have enough confidence in his 3-point shot yet. Let's face it, with Meeks' injury history, they'll need a guy who can step in for at least 20-30 games as a backup 2. He's a much better fit with Wall and probably Frazier than Sato is, unless Sato comes in with more confidence and a few more pounds in the upper body.

Keene is fun to watch at times and frustrating as well. Robinson abused him several times off the dribble and I'm guessing that Monmouth kid is not an NBA player. I'd like to see him get in the lane more and create on the offensive end. He's definitely worth a training camp invite but not ready to get two-day deal. Young already has it and he's getting better facing the basket. I think he has a chance to be solid; not great if he plays at least 1 year in D-League. I don't think Robinson is worth it. He has shown basically nothing in the SL.

It comes down to what they are going to do with Ocheefu and McCullough. McCullough would be fine if he was on a two-day deal, but he's not close to being a rotation player. Just too weak defensively and doesn't do much from the perimeter. Ochefu can't jump and can't score in bunches but he's a sound passer and solid defender. If we can find a better option who is just as cheap, don't sign him. If not, he's serviceable as a third center.

Can I ask You about Ochefu cause I didn't watch first 2 games, are U really believe he can be serviceable on NBA level?
Watching him lastly I noticed he is very slow, fouled too much, and he is black hole at offense. He is moving and jumping like old man.

I think you are confusing Ochefu with Diogu. There is no way Ochefu is a black hole on offense, because he passes the ball most of the time he receives it in the post. He's very unselfish and look, I'm not saying he's a future starter. Just saying he can be serviceable as a 3rd center, but again, if Mahinmi goes down again, JSmith takes over at the 5. So we're arguing about the 13th or 14th player on the roster. I think he's done enough to stay. He's been much better than McCullough and Robinson and he rebounds decently. He's a pretty fundamentally sound player. He's averaging 8.5 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.3bpg and is shooting 70% from the field.


The only reason you keep him is because you need a 3rd string center with some defensive ability (Smith isn't that) and Mahinmi is a walking injury.

[Tricky_Kid]

I would be dumbfounded if they picked up Ochefu's option. He's far too slow to ever defend NBA players, he's been fouling at an insane rate because he can't move his feet at all. He's like a Roy Hibbert, doesn't fit this new NBA at all. He has a soft touch around the basket and nice passing ability though

What do You expect? it's Ernie... I just read they sign Robinson yay!

[Tricky_Kid]

After watching four games, there is nobody to get excited about, nobody who is a definite rotation player next season. I will give Mac credit for hitting two 3s and actually taking them in the second half. He appears to be all about the drive and doesn't have enough confidence in his 3-point shot yet. Let's face it, with Meeks' injury history, they'll need a guy who can step in for at least 20-30 games as a backup 2. He's a much better fit with Wall and probably Frazier than Sato is, unless Sato comes in with more confidence and a few more pounds in the upper body.

Keene is fun to watch at times and frustrating as well. Robinson abused him several times off the dribble and I'm guessing that Monmouth kid is not an NBA player. I'd like to see him get in the lane more and create on the offensive end. He's definitely worth a training camp invite but not ready to get two-day deal. Young already has it and he's getting better facing the basket. I think he has a chance to be solid; not great if he plays at least 1 year in D-League. I don't think Robinson is worth it. He has shown basically nothing in the SL.

It comes down to what they are going to do with Ocheefu and McCullough. McCullough would be fine if he was on a two-day deal, but he's not close to being a rotation player. Just too weak defensively and doesn't do much from the perimeter. Ochefu can't jump and can't score in bunches but he's a sound passer and solid defender. If we can find a better option who is just as cheap, don't sign him. If not, he's serviceable as a third center.

Can I ask You about Ochefu cause I didn't watch first 2 games, are U really believe he can be serviceable on NBA level?
Watching him lastly I noticed he is very slow, fouled too much, and he is black hole at offense. He is moving and jumping like old man.

I think you are confusing Ochefu with Diogu. There is no way Ochefu is a black hole on offense, because he passes the ball most of the time he receives it in the post. He's very unselfish and look, I'm not saying he's a future starter. Just saying he can be serviceable as a 3rd center, but again, if Mahinmi goes down again, JSmith takes over at the 5. So we're arguing about the 13th or 14th player on the roster. I think he's done enough to stay. He's been much better than McCullough and Robinson and he rebounds decently. He's a pretty fundamentally sound player. He's averaging 8.5 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.3bpg and is shooting 70% from the field.


The only reason you keep him is because you need a 3rd string center with some defensive ability (Smith isn't that) and Mahinmi is a walking injury.

Nah I didn't confuse them. Diogu has at least some post moves and plays hard.

[80sballboy]

Can I ask You about Ochefu cause I didn't watch first 2 games, are U really believe he can be serviceable on NBA level?
Watching him lastly I noticed he is very slow, fouled too much, and he is black hole at offense. He is moving and jumping like old man.

I think you are confusing Ochefu with Diogu. There is no way Ochefu is a black hole on offense, because he passes the ball most of the time he receives it in the post. He's very unselfish and look, I'm not saying he's a future starter. Just saying he can be serviceable as a 3rd center, but again, if Mahinmi goes down again, JSmith takes over at the 5. So we're arguing about the 13th or 14th player on the roster. I think he's done enough to stay. He's been much better than McCullough and Robinson and he rebounds decently. He's a pretty fundamentally sound player. He's averaging 8.5 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.3bpg and is shooting 70% from the field.


The only reason you keep him is because you need a 3rd string center with some defensive ability (Smith isn't that) and Mahinmi is a walking injury.

Nah I didn't confuse them. Diogu has at least some post moves and plays hard.

Well, he is slow and methodical but he's not a black hole. He's known for his passing from the post. If you are focused on his offense, that's not his strength. It's passing, rebounding and defending. He doesn't finish well. Diogu is strong as an ox but nobody is taking a 33-year old overweight guy who can't jump. But again, we are keeping Ochefu barring a deal. I can't believe I'm defending him because the rest of the SL roster is so horrid.

[NatP4]

I agree with 80s that Ochefu makes for a perfectly acceptable 3rd string center on the cheap and he's good friends with Mac. He rebounds, protects the rim a little, is fundamentally sound, decent touch around the rim, and can make some nice passes. It isn't a bad idea to keep him, he's just no diamond in the rough high upside project big or anything like that.

Maybe Jason Smith is on the move who knows? they can't keep Scott/Smith/Mccullough/Ochefu and Robinson/Young on the two way deals. Hopefully they dont actually look at Young or Robinson as wing players, yikes.

[80sballboy]

I agree with 80s that Ochefu makes for a perfectly acceptable 3rd string center on the cheap and he's good friends with Mac. He rebounds, protects the rim a little, is fundamentally sound, decent touch around the rim, and can make some nice passes. It isn't a bad idea to keep him, he's just no diamond in the rough high upside project big or anything like that.

Maybe Jason Smith is on the move who knows? they can't keep Scott/Smith/Mccullough/Ochefu and Robinson/Young on the two way deals. Hopefully they dont actually look at Young or Robinson as wing players, yikes.

We can only hope Smith is on the move. If Mike Scott/Otto play the 4 behind Morris, and Mahinmi is healthy, Smith will never play. The problem is when Ian is injured, do you want more offense with Smith or a little more D with Ochefu. I'd take neither but third string is third string. You're playing Smith two more years at 10+ million and Scott is a one-year min deal.

[cwb3]

Stupid question time: Has Sato logged too much NBA or Euroball time to be allowed to play in Vegas SL?
Would have liked to see him logging extended minutes. Still not sure what we really have with him.

[NatP4]

Stupid question time: Has Sato logged too much NBA or Euroball time to be allowed to play in Vegas SL?
Would have liked to see him logging extended minutes. Still not sure what we really have with him.

Think its a little bit of an ego thing, Sato has stated that he already did that and doesn't want to play in SL again. That was like 3 years ago when he said that.

[Tricky_Kid]

No excuses, not blaming anyone but himself? I like this kid now. Hope he blows up.

Don't get your hopes up

I think you are confusing Ochefu with Diogu. There is no way Ochefu is a black hole on offense, because he passes the ball most of the time he receives it in the post. He's very unselfish and look, I'm not saying he's a future starter. Just saying he can be serviceable as a 3rd center, but again, if Mahinmi goes down again, JSmith takes over at the 5. So we're arguing about the 13th or 14th player on the roster. I think he's done enough to stay. He's been much better than McCullough and Robinson and he rebounds decently. He's a pretty fundamentally sound player. He's averaging 8.5 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.3bpg and is shooting 70% from the field.


The only reason you keep him is because you need a 3rd string center with some defensive ability (Smith isn't that) and Mahinmi is a walking injury.

Nah I didn't confuse them. Diogu has at least some post moves and plays hard.

Well, he is slow and methodical but he's not a black hole. He's known for us passing from the post. If you are focused on his offense, that's not his strength. It's passing, rebounding and defending. He doesn't finish well. Diogu is strong as an ox but nobody is taking a 33-year old overweight guy who can't jump. But again, we are keeping him barring a deal.

I don't want Diogu just to be clear...
I think there is no need for guys like Ochefu, slow guys who can't crash offensive boards, and because of his lack of fast movements fouling like crazy. You see things differently which is ok.
Auguste killed us on boards yesterday...

[cwb3]

Stupid question time: Has Sato logged too much NBA or Euroball time to be allowed to play in Vegas SL?
Would have liked to see him logging extended minutes. Still not sure what we really have with him.

Think its a little bit of an ego thing, Sato has stated that he already did that and doesn't want to play in SL again. That was like 3 years ago when he said that.

Oh wow. . .that's not good. He needs all the minutes he can against near-NBA level speed, whether playing the 1 or the 2. I would have thought he timed-out of SL eligibility. That can't be a good look to the team execs, would think they would want to see him hungry to play in any Wiz capacity, including SL.

[80sballboy]

No excuses, not blaming anyone but himself? I like this kid now. Hope he blows up.

Don't get your hopes up

Nah I didn't confuse them. Diogu has at least some post moves and plays hard.

Well, he is slow and methodical but he's not a black hole. He's known for us passing from the post. If you are focused on his offense, that's not his strength. It's passing, rebounding and defending. He doesn't finish well. Diogu is strong as an ox but nobody is taking a 33-year old overweight guy who can't jump. But again, we are keeping him barring a deal.

I don't want Diogu just to be clear...
I think there is no need for guys like Ochefu, slow guys who can't crash offensive boards, and because of his lack of fast movements fouling like crazy. You see things differently which is ok.
Auguste killed us on boards yesterday...

I like Auguste but most of his board work came against McCullough and Diogu. He destroyed McCullough. But again, find me a better cheap option than Ochefu and I'm ok with replacing him. I'm just not replacing him with a guard like Keene.

[80sballboy]

Stupid question time: Has Sato logged too much NBA or Euroball time to be allowed to play in Vegas SL?
Would have liked to see him logging extended minutes. Still not sure what we really have with him.

Think its a little bit of an ego thing, Sato has stated that he already did that and doesn't want to play in SL again. That was like 3 years ago when he said that.

Oh wow. . .that's not good. He needs all the minutes he can against near-NBA level speed, whether playing the 1 or the 2. I would have thought he timed-out of SL eligibility. That can't be a good look to the team execs, would think they would want to see him hungry to play in any Wiz capacity, including SL.

I don't think SL is a great measuring stick for a Euro but it would not have hurt to play him 2-3 games at the point of 25mpg instead of Kevin Pangos and Malik Wayns. Maybe that would have given him more confidence in that type of run-and-gun style play.

[NatP4]

Stupid question time: Has Sato logged too much NBA or Euroball time to be allowed to play in Vegas SL?
Would have liked to see him logging extended minutes. Still not sure what we really have with him.

Think its a little bit of an ego thing, Sato has stated that he already did that and doesn't want to play in SL again. That was like 3 years ago when he said that.

Oh wow. . .that's not good. He needs all the minutes he can against near-NBA level speed, whether playing the 1 or the 2. I would have thought he timed-out of SL eligibility. That can't be a good look to the team execs, would think they would want to see him hungry to play in any Wiz capacity, including SL.

I agree he could've benefited big time from playing at that pace, but it is kind of a weird situation, played 4 years ago as a 19 year old rookie then played professionally in Europe so it wouldn't make a ton of sense to come over every summer to play SL for the Wiz when he probably was playing euro cup over summer if that makes sense. He is about to be 26 years old I believe. definitely would've helped him though.