Pablo Novi wrote:mdonnelly1989 wrote:
I applaud you on your knowledge of those ERA's. Basically the way you explained Dr. J sounds identical to MJ.
Dr. J has been known quite often to be the original MJ from what I've heard as well.
You have shined a new light on me with Dr. J and I suppose he was better than his stats would suggest relative to Jerry West and Oscar because as 27 year that and what I've heard/read are the only things that I can go on.
Thanx for the compliments.
Before Dr J, the "original" creator of hangtime was Elgin Baylor - although seemingly (as I remember things) a lot of his hanging didn't end in dunks as much as in late-shot flip-ins - he was noted for unusually strong wrists - so he could get those shots off and in really late. He "invented" all kinds of moves and shots approaching the rim.
btw, my All-Time FAVORITE players were/are Jerry West & Elgin Baylor - who are why I've been a life-time (58 years) Lakers fan.
Back then, it was a horribly nasty racist age - as a young man, raised in the home of an exceptionally TOLERANT dad; the nastiness just shocked the bleep out of me. (I went to high school outside of Boston and got to attend a number of C's games at the Gaaaden - that THEIR fans would boo the great Bill Russell (screaming out the "N" word at him and the other C's black players) turned me into a non-Celtics fan for life.
During highschool, I had almost "negative" "leaping" ability; so at 5'8" I was never gonna make the varsity team (although I played for several hours EVERY day. I'd go with the team to all our away games. At EVERY away game there'd be:
TWO sets of cheerleaders, leading two SEPARATE sets of fans, seated in two SEPARATE seating sections.
When a black player scored, the black cheerleaders would rise and lead the black fans. Meanwhile, the white cheerleaders and fans remained silent (if not scowling). Then, when a white player scored; it'd be the exact same thing but in reverse.
My dad would take our family some 2-4 times a year on trips into the Deep South. He'd take me off to the side before EVERY trip (as his eldest son); and he'd say to me, "Son, you know the routine; but here we go again. You will see stuff that will enrage the bleep out of you, scandalize you. But you will say NOTHING and do NOTHING - or you'll get us all killed. So, you either agree or you're not going with us.
And what we saw was just horrible. Gang bangs of 5 or more cowards on one or two black guys. Segregation EVERYWHERE.
And perhaps the worst, was what I called the "3 Bathroom 'System'": one for "men"; one for "women" and one labeled "Colored" - which was an absolute abomination: no running water, no electricity, never cleaned. These were as far removed into the far corner of the lot as was possible because of the stench and the huge black swarm of flies.
I had pretty much given up hope that the two races would ever get along.
I had had the great fortune to have seen the Harlem Globetrotters LIVE a number of times during the 1959-60 season; so I "experienced" their incredible Point Guard, Wilt Chamberlain. I "followed" him into the NBA (which was not nearly the draw the 'Trotters were back then.
And then, a couple of years later, I experienced West-Baylor. (There was also "O"-Jerry Lucas; but they were not equals on the court in terms of ability - so those two didn't move me nearly as much as did Jerry & Elgin). It was the virtual equality of skills of Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside, their TEAM-work, their artistry, their "bi-racial" harmony that pulled me out of my youthful "desperation" of thinking things would never change.
Those two caused me to decide to dedicate ALL my free time for the rest of my life to heavy-duty peace-justice activism.
So that's both why I've been a Lakers fan ever since West came into the League and joined Baylor; and why, they are really the only two players for whom I have a personal bias in favor of.
Which makes it not easy for me to argue ANYONE over either of them - even Dr J; but he really was a phenom.
to you.