The Zach Lavine Problem

[RedBulls23]

Thanks for your unbiased opinion, bro. We have a ton of butt-hurt Butler fans here that are trying to **** on everything Bulls because he's gone. It's tiring, I appreciate your honesty.

You really need to give it a rest with the personal stuff and baiting. Just because people don't agree with your opinion on the new players, doesn't make them butt hurt Butler fans.

[Paxson43]

Thanks for your unbiased opinion, bro. We have a ton of butt-hurt Butler fans here that are trying to **** on everything Bulls because he's gone. It's tiring, I appreciate your honesty.

You really need to give it a rest with the personal stuff and baiting. Just because people don't agree with your opinion on the new players, doesn't make them butt hurt Butler fans.

Promise I'm not trying to make it personal (haven't directed it at any specific poster) nor am I trying to bait anyone (bait for what)?

But either way, I got your message.

[WindyCityBorn]

Thanks for your unbiased opinion, bro. We have a ton of butt-hurt Butler fans here that are trying to **** on everything Bulls because he's gone. It's tiring, I appreciate your honesty.

Im more Butt-ler hurt about the fact that they could have just drafted Lavine instead of Doug and maybe they wouldn't have had to trade Jimmy.

This is why I have my doubts in this rebuild. I'm all for it, but we still have the same mopes picking the players that put us in this position of having to blow it up in the 1st place. It's already looking like they blew their first high pick of the rebuild with DSJ looking miles better than Lauri. I know it's early and hopefully Lauri makes me eat some crow, but at this point Gar doesn't get the benefit of the doubt considering he hasn't hit on a pick in 5 years running. I know his picks weren't very high, but every one of those drafts produced guys that were significantly better AFTER gars pick

Just because Smith can score more because he has the ball in his hands every possession doesn't mean be is a better player than Lauri. If that was the case you would all be Lavine fans. His game is infinitely better than Smith and he isn't 5'11".

[Stratmaster]

Thanks for your unbiased opinion, bro. We have a ton of butt-hurt Butler fans here that are trying to **** on everything Bulls because he's gone. It's tiring, I appreciate your honesty.

Im more Butt-ler hurt about the fact that they could have just drafted Lavine instead of Doug and maybe they wouldn't have had to trade Jimmy.

This is why I have my doubts in this rebuild. I'm all for it, but we still have the same mopes picking the players that put us in this position of having to blow it up in the 1st place. It's already looking like they blew their first high pick of the rebuild with DSJ looking miles better than Lauri. I know it's early and hopefully Lauri makes me eat some crow, but at this point Gar doesn't get the benefit of the doubt considering he hasn't hit on a pick in 5 years running. I know his picks weren't very high, but every one of those drafts produced guys that were significantly better AFTER gars pick

That is all hindsight and without context though. Let's back up. At the time the Bulls drafted Doug Jimmy Butler was the Bulls centerpiece and had flourished after being moved to the SG position. They (and we) were looking for a lights out 3 point shooter to play next to compliment Butler in an attempt to contend.

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

[Hangtime84]

Thanks for your unbiased opinion, bro. We have a ton of butt-hurt Butler fans here that are trying to **** on everything Bulls because he's gone. It's tiring, I appreciate your honesty.

Im more Butt-ler hurt about the fact that they could have just drafted Lavine instead of Doug and maybe they wouldn't have had to trade Jimmy.

This is why I have my doubts in this rebuild. I'm all for it, but we still have the same mopes picking the players that put us in this position of having to blow it up in the 1st place. It's already looking like they blew their first high pick of the rebuild with DSJ looking miles better than Lauri. I know it's early and hopefully Lauri makes me eat some crow, but at this point Gar doesn't get the benefit of the doubt considering he hasn't hit on a pick in 5 years running. I know his picks weren't very high, but every one of those drafts produced guys that were significantly better AFTER gars pick

I feel you on that Bulter hurt mainly cause of Doug. (Straw that broke the camels back).

The bulls recovered quite well from Rose injury until they started trading assets like candy and not grabbing high upside guys.

I do notice a difference that paxson appears to more involved and they are trying to correct the ship.

Our inside info posters have mentioned many times that Paxson wanted to rebuild last year, but Gar/Michea thought they were building a contender.

Paxson finally got his way but ownership wanted 3.5 million for ***** buying out Rondo.

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Waiting for more info to be let out

[kingkirk]

That is all hindsight and without context though. Let's back up. At the time the Bulls drafted Doug Jimmy Butler was the Bulls centerpiece and had flourished after being moved to the SG position. They (and we) were looking for a lights out 3 point shooter to play next to compliment Butler in an attempt to contend.

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

The Bulls draft McDermott in 2014, which is several months before Jimmy Butler broke out. He turned into a 20-point scorer in 2014-15, which is the season directly after the draft.

McDermott was not drafted to compliment Butler. Butler was not the centrepiece of the team prior to the 2015 season when McDermott was selected.

This was still Rose and Noah's team, and had it worked out, Melo's team, too. It wasn't Butler's team when they took McDermott.

[HomoSapien]

Thanks for your unbiased opinion, bro. We have a ton of butt-hurt Butler fans here that are trying to **** on everything Bulls because he's gone. It's tiring, I appreciate your honesty.

This isn't contributing anything to the discussion. Have the debate without insulting a group of posters.

Edit: Oops, sorry just saw it was addressed by RedBulls.

[Stratmaster]

That is all hindsight and without context though. Let's back up. At the time the Bulls drafted Doug Jimmy Butler was the Bulls centerpiece and had flourished after being moved to the SG position. They (and we) were looking for a lights out 3 point shooter to play next to compliment Butler in an attempt to contend.

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

The Bulls draft McDermott in 2014, which is several months before Jimmy Butler broke out. He turned into a 20-point scorer in 2014-15, which is the season directly after the draft.

McDermott was not drafted to compliment Butler. Butler was not the centrepiece of the team prior to the 2015 season when McDermott was selected.

This was still Rose and Noah's team, and had it worked out, Melo's team, too. It wasn't Butler's team when they took McDermott.

My bad. You are correct. It was the draft right after Jimmy Butler had gone to Thibs and said he wanted a bigger role in the offense. McD's first season was Jimmy's first all-star season.

[Ice Man]

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

Oh, I think Zach fits nicely next to JImmy, slide Butler to the #3 spot and let him guard the tough wings, give Zach the easy ones. Zach shot 6.6 3s per game last year, made 39% of them. I like that duo, Zach covers for Butler's semi-lack of range (Jimmy isn't bad at 3s, but in only moderate volume), and Jimmy brings the physicality.

Ah well.

[WindyCityBorn]

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

Oh, I think Zach fits nicely next to JImmy, slide Butler to the #3 spot and let him guard the tough wings, give Zach the easy ones. Zach shot 6.6 3s per game last year, made 39% of them. I like that duo, Zach covers for Butler's semi-lack of range (Jimmy isn't bad at 3s, but in only moderate volume), and Jimmy brings the physicality.

Ah well.

No use dwelling what could have ben. Lavine falling all the 13 probably has a lot thinking they made a mistake. To be fair they guy only average 9ppg at UCLA so it was a leap to take him in the lottery at all for any team.

[Red Larrivee]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

[RedBulls23]

That is all hindsight and without context though. Let's back up. At the time the Bulls drafted Doug Jimmy Butler was the Bulls centerpiece and had flourished after being moved to the SG position. They (and we) were looking for a lights out 3 point shooter to play next to compliment Butler in an attempt to contend.

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

The Bulls draft McDermott in 2014, which is several months before Jimmy Butler broke out. He turned into a 20-point scorer in 2014-15, which is the season directly after the draft.

McDermott was not drafted to compliment Butler. Butler was not the centrepiece of the team prior to the 2015 season when McDermott was selected.

This was still Rose and Noah's team, and had it worked out, Melo's team, too. It wasn't Butler's team when they took McDermott.

Yup, and Jimmy wasn't even part of the recruiting efforts for Melo that off-season, and the Bulls FO also didn't think he was worth 4 years 48 million that he was asking for at the time.

Jimmy was far from the center piece when Doug was drafted.

[WindyCityBorn]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

If he plays most of the season, looks he has maintained most his athleticism and plays well I don't see why it wouldn't be a good time to extend him. There isn't really a high rate of re-injury with ACL tears.

[MC3]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

I am not sure Wolves would trade Lavine if he didnt had ACL. That brought price down and Bulls eventual #16 included just sealed deal.

[Jcool0]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

I thought it was #4 and Eric Bledsoe for Butler?

[Red Larrivee]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

I thought it was #4 and Eric Bledsoe for Butler?

No idea. I was listening to Bernstein and Goff the day after the trade, and someone said management wanted Booker from Phoenix.

[WindyCityBorn]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

I am not sure Wolves would trade Lavine if he didnt had ACL. That brought price down and Bulls eventual #16 included just sealed deal.

I don't think they do that trade either.

[MC3]

Someone made a good point regarding LaVine's value. On 670 the Score, they mentioned that the Bulls asked Phoenix for Booker, but the Suns view him as untouchable. Booker and LaVine actually compare very similarly across the board, though LaVine is more explosive and athletic. Booker is about 1.5 years younger.

It's not convenient that the Bulls will have to extend LaVine after the season he returns from his ACL, but there's really not a better option. You're not just going to let a 22-year-old SG with his talent walk in a rebuild.

I am not sure Wolves would trade Lavine if he didnt had ACL. That brought price down and Bulls eventual #16 included just sealed deal.

I don't think they do that trade either.

Thibs likely saw Lavine would need time to get right back and what he experienced with Rose didnt want to deal with this ordeal again. To wait and see how recovers and waste a year to see where Lavine is and then possibly extend him.

Those are all likely factors. Butler made sense from Thibs stand point and wanting a win now and from stand point he is getting now already better player in return.

I think ACL changed a bit a time line for Wolves.

[Chi town]

I am not sure Wolves would trade Lavine if he didnt had ACL. That brought price down and Bulls eventual #16 included just sealed deal.

I don't think they do that trade either.

Thibs likely saw Lavine would need time to get right back and what he experienced with Rose didnt want to deal with this ordeal again. To wait and see how recovers and waste a year to see where Lavine is and then possibly extend him.

Those are all likely factors. Butler made sense from Thibs stand point and wanting a win now and from stand point he is getting now already better player in return.

I think ACL changed a bit a time line for Wolves.

Supposedly Thibs turned down Dunn and Lavine last summer. Once they sucked last year and Lavine went down he was willing to add in that pick swap and Lavine. Dunn's value dropping probably helped too.

[Stratmaster]

They got Lavine now as a replacement for Butler at the 2. If Butler is still here you don't need Lavine.

Oh, I think Zach fits nicely next to JImmy, slide Butler to the #3 spot and let him guard the tough wings, give Zach the easy ones. Zach shot 6.6 3s per game last year, made 39% of them. I like that duo, Zach covers for Butler's semi-lack of range (Jimmy isn't bad at 3s, but in only moderate volume), and Jimmy brings the physicality.

Ah well.

Yeah as it turns out I was starting from a completely incorrect premise anyways...

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