Bad Free Throw shooters - why not try to bank every shot?

[DuckIII]

Never played hoops huh?

Sure sounds like this is the case


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So you think continual clanking off the back iron is the answer?

Aim for glass. It will guide the ball in

That's false. The glass is a flat plane. When shooting a straight away shot, you would have to hit the glass just right for it to "guide" the ball into the hoop. It doesn't reduce the margin of error.

Here is a link to an article that analyzes the types of shots that are enhanced by glass and those that aren't. If I'm reading it right, using glass on straight away shots, the study finds, isn't helpful:

https://www.wired.com/2011/03/physics-basketball-shots/

And from personal experience, straight away bank shots are hard as hell.

[The_Hater]

Never played hoops huh?

Sure sounds like this is the case


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So you think continual clanking off the back iron is the answer?

Aim for glass. It will guide the ball in

Since you keep insisting to discuss this...

The problem with the straight on bank shot is there is no room for error. If you're slightly off line left of right, you miss. Slightly long, you miss, slightly short, you miss. And because you need to shoot it both longer and harder, you're not getting any soft rolls off the rim or off the glass that a normal FT gets. It actually requires far more accuracy to master this shot which is why you've never seen anybody, ever, try what you're suggesting. It's not the same as shooting a bank shot from an angle.

[Alonzo_Morning]

Sure sounds like this is the case


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So you think continual clanking off the back iron is the answer?

Aim for glass. It will guide the ball in

Since you keep insisting to discuss this...

The problem with the straight on bank shot is there is no room for error. If you're slightly off line left of right, you miss. Slightly long, you miss, slightly short, you miss. And because you need to shoot it both longer and harder, you're not getting any soft rolls off the rim or off the glass that a normal FT gets. It actually requires far more accuracy to master this shot which is why you've never seen anybody, ever, try what you're suggesting. It's not the same as shooting a bank shot from an angle.

People who are bad at ft shooting are not getting any friendly rolls because they are poor shooters and largely don't get correct rotation on the ball. Hitting off the glass is more forgiving with incorrect spin which could assist these tyoes of shooters.

[FNQ]

So get a mental coach, go see a therapist, do whatever it takes.
If Dwight shoots 80% at practice then all this BS about body type and hand size is just a flat out lie.

Sure, Steph is probably a more natural shooter than DeAndre, but that doesn't give DJ an excuse to be a sub 40% shooter from the line. Being a professional basketball player that can't be barely over .500 at the most basic aspect of the sport is embarrassing.

And yes, Livingston should have had a 3pt shot by now and one of the reasons (other than that injury) he's a bench player is that he can't shoot at a respectable rate(30%?) when wide open.
You think he's genetically a bad shooter? For a guy that shoots 80% from the line I'd say it's highly unlikely.
Livingston just didn't work on his shooting as much as Kawhi or Giannis did.

The therapists and psychology aspects have been tried to death.. its just like anything else, some people just cannot process the movements and dont do well with it. The fact that they're practicing and not getting better doesnt make them lazy, or should embarrass them at all.

I've actually firsthand seen these players try and improve - Livingston, personally. To throw out the blanket statement that he didnt work as much as X or Y is purely an assumption and very likely incorrect. It's more than muscle memory, its more than repetitive practice. It's a balancing act between the mental and the physical and some players never get to the point where they improve enough to do it in a meaningful NBA game.

also re: therapists, some therapists will advise that if something is not improving, to just avoid it so the player isn't focusing on something negative, as that can have adverse effects on the rest of their game as well.

[The_Hater]

So you think continual clanking off the back iron is the answer?

Aim for glass. It will guide the ball in

Since you keep insisting to discuss this...

The problem with the straight on bank shot is there is no room for error. If you're slightly off line left of right, you miss. Slightly long, you miss, slightly short, you miss. And because you need to shoot it both longer and harder, you're not getting any soft rolls off the rim or off the glass that a normal FT gets. It actually requires far more accuracy to master this shot which is why you've never seen anybody, ever, try what you're suggesting. It's not the same as shooting a bank shot from an angle.

People who are bad at ft shooting are not getting any friendly rolls because they are poor shooters and largely don't get correct rotation on the ball. Hitting off the glass is more forgiving with incorrect spin which could assist these tyoes of shooters.

Augh.....

[FNQ]

So you think continual clanking off the back iron is the answer?

Aim for glass. It will guide the ball in

Since you keep insisting to discuss this...

The problem with the straight on bank shot is there is no room for error. If you're slightly off line left of right, you miss. Slightly long, you miss, slightly short, you miss. And because you need to shoot it both longer and harder, you're not getting any soft rolls off the rim or off the glass that a normal FT gets. It actually requires far more accuracy to master this shot which is why you've never seen anybody, ever, try what you're suggesting. It's not the same as shooting a bank shot from an angle.

People who are bad at ft shooting are not getting any friendly rolls because they are poor shooters and largely don't get correct rotation on the ball. Hitting off the glass is more forgiving with incorrect spin which could assist these tyoes of shooters.

Hitting off the glass with bad spin would be just as bad..

Bottom line: if they could accurately bank shots in, they would likely have no problem making FTs in the first place. The only way to go is underhanded, but their pride prevents it.

[Alonzo_Morning]

Since you keep insisting to discuss this...

The problem with the straight on bank shot is there is no room for error. If you're slightly off line left of right, you miss. Slightly long, you miss, slightly short, you miss. And because you need to shoot it both longer and harder, you're not getting any soft rolls off the rim or off the glass that a normal FT gets. It actually requires far more accuracy to master this shot which is why you've never seen anybody, ever, try what you're suggesting. It's not the same as shooting a bank shot from an angle.

People who are bad at ft shooting are not getting any friendly rolls because they are poor shooters and largely don't get correct rotation on the ball. Hitting off the glass is more forgiving with incorrect spin which could assist these tyoes of shooters.

Hitting off the glass with bad spin would be just as bad..

Bottom line: if they could accurately bank shots in, they would likely have no problem making FTs in the first place. The only way to go is underhanded, but their pride prevents it.

I've shot free throws with bad spin before and the ball hits glass and goes straight down. I would have though pride was a barrier to banking free throws as well as underhand.

[Xherdan 23]

Dwight shoots 80% from the line in practice.. DeAndre Jordan was taking 100 FTs every day in practice.

I mean, why stop at FTs? Why hasnt Shaun Livingston ever developed a 3pt ball? Why cant everyone shoot 3s too? At a certain point, you just aren't able to do it. I'm 5'10, I had to be a guard my entire life. But I couldnt be a PG because no matter how much I practiced, I couldnt handle the ball well enough to do so. I put in the work, listened to Gary Payton and Jason Williams' tips (ruined many gloves by cutting the fingertips out, per White Chocolate).. and I could do pretty well in the gym by myself. But come game time, I may as well have been Biyombo out there.

But don't leave me open. No, don't do that. I'm not like Biyombo there

So get a mental coach, go see a therapist, do whatever it takes.
If Dwight shoots 80% at practice then all this BS about body type and hand size is just a flat out lie.

Sure, Steph is probably a more natural shooter than DeAndre, but that doesn't give DJ an excuse to be a sub 40% shooter from the line. Being a professional basketball player that can't be barely over .500 at the most basic aspect of the sport is embarrassing.

And yes, Livingston should have had a 3pt shot by now and one of the reasons (other than that injury) he's a bench player is that he can't shoot at a respectable rate(30%?) when wide open.
You think he's genetically a bad shooter? For a guy that shoots 80% from the line I'd say it's highly unlikely.
Livingston just didn't work on his shooting as much as Kawhi or Giannis did.

You sound like someone with no contact with high level basketball players. Shooting is not a factor of just hard work. Talent is real.

I havent practiced free throws since I was in college. Even then only when mandated. I shot close to 80% for 4 years. Dwight has prob taken a few hundred thousand free throws more than me with the help of professional coaches. I could outshoot him right now in dress shoes. It's not that he hasn't worked harder on that aspect of the game, he just isn't as talented there. Luckily, he has learned to adjust and turned himself into a rich rich man lol


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Of course there's natural talent but you can absolutely improve your shooting to some degree.
Dwight didn't improve, he started with 67% FT his rookie season and got worse almost every year with some under 50%.
No one expected him to be lights out but he should be able to hit 60% if he worked on it.
Him saying he's going to work on his three point shot in the summer is a joke.

And not that it makes my opinion any more or less valid, but I did play on a professional team (Hapoel Jerusalem, Amare Stoudemire's current team) for a season when I was 17. Our starting PG got injured for the season and I played about 16 total minutes that season and didn't get a contract for the next season (it still counts though).

[MaxRider]

Watch on YouTube

[Knickerbocker91]

I just don't believe in the whole "not able to do it"

The players that want to be great, figure it out. No other way around it, you either make the changes in your game to become better at all facets or you fade away in mediocrity.

Kobe, a notorious workaholic, was a below-average three-point shooter for his entire career. You really think he didn't want it enough? At a certain point, your production is capped by your ability.

I'll reiterate again, we are talking about a stationary 15 foot shot, with no defense or movement.

Kobe's field goal attempts were far too high to sustain good 3pt shooting percentages. Yes, he wasn't Ray Allen but he was an above average 3pt shooter. You're really telling me that shooting free throws is an ability that is capped at below 50%? That is horse s***

[HurricaneKid]

WHAT?!

They are bad freethrow shooters because in the first place they can't aim properly, have bad eye-hand coordination etc

If they can't aim properly for a "normal" freethrow there's no way they are hitting that specific spot on the backboard better than their normal FT.

Im pretty sure that "shooter's bounce" favors a normal freethrow than a banked one.

There's quite a few spots on the glass from straight on front you can hit and it will still go in. You can even slam a ball into the glass and it will go in, where as it will never do that trying to drop it in from a height

More margin of error than trying to land a ball in a hole if you are not good at that

And physics teachers throughout the world weep.

Banking a 15 foot shot from straight ahead increases the difficulty by magnitudes. Its a longer shot that needs to be WAY more precise.

[FNQ]

People who are bad at ft shooting are not getting any friendly rolls because they are poor shooters and largely don't get correct rotation on the ball. Hitting off the glass is more forgiving with incorrect spin which could assist these tyoes of shooters.

Hitting off the glass with bad spin would be just as bad..

Bottom line: if they could accurately bank shots in, they would likely have no problem making FTs in the first place. The only way to go is underhanded, but their pride prevents it.

I've shot free throws with bad spin before and the ball hits glass and goes straight down. I would have though pride was a barrier to banking free throws as well as underhand.

If the spin isn't straight on backspin, it does not go straight down. And if they have issues shooting regular FTs, they probably dont have good backspin to begin with

[Alonzo_Morning]

WHAT?!

They are bad freethrow shooters because in the first place they can't aim properly, have bad eye-hand coordination etc

If they can't aim properly for a "normal" freethrow there's no way they are hitting that specific spot on the backboard better than their normal FT.

Im pretty sure that "shooter's bounce" favors a normal freethrow than a banked one.

There's quite a few spots on the glass from straight on front you can hit and it will still go in. You can even slam a ball into the glass and it will go in, where as it will never do that trying to drop it in from a height

More margin of error than trying to land a ball in a hole if you are not good at that

And physics teachers throughout the world weep.

Banking a 15 foot shot from straight ahead increases the difficulty by magnitudes. Its a longer shot that needs to be WAY more precise.

A lot of bad free throw shooters shoot long by default. You don't even need a good arc when banking from straight on. You just need a little bit of accuracy. You don't need a lovely loopy trajectory or lovely backspin, 2 of the main sticking points with bad FT shooters.

[Knickerbocker91]

Dwight shoots 80% from the line in practice.. DeAndre Jordan was taking 100 FTs every day in practice.

I mean, why stop at FTs? Why hasnt Shaun Livingston ever developed a 3pt ball? Why cant everyone shoot 3s too? At a certain point, you just aren't able to do it. I'm 5'10, I had to be a guard my entire life. But I couldnt be a PG because no matter how much I practiced, I couldnt handle the ball well enough to do so. I put in the work, listened to Gary Payton and Jason Williams' tips (ruined many gloves by cutting the fingertips out, per White Chocolate).. and I could do pretty well in the gym by myself. But come game time, I may as well have been Biyombo out there.

But don't leave me open. No, don't do that. I'm not like Biyombo there

So get a mental coach, go see a therapist, do whatever it takes.
If Dwight shoots 80% at practice then all this BS about body type and hand size is just a flat out lie.

Sure, Steph is probably a more natural shooter than DeAndre, but that doesn't give DJ an excuse to be a sub 40% shooter from the line. Being a professional basketball player that can't be barely over .500 at the most basic aspect of the sport is embarrassing.

And yes, Livingston should have had a 3pt shot by now and one of the reasons (other than that injury) he's a bench player is that he can't shoot at a respectable rate(30%?) when wide open.
You think he's genetically a bad shooter? For a guy that shoots 80% from the line I'd say it's highly unlikely.
Livingston just didn't work on his shooting as much as Kawhi or Giannis did.

You sound like someone with no contact with high level basketball players. Shooting is not a factor of just hard work. Talent is real.

I havent practiced free throws since I was in college. Even then only when mandated. I shot close to 80% for 4 years. Dwight has prob taken a few hundred thousand free throws more than me with the help of professional coaches. I could outshoot him right now in dress shoes. It's not that he hasn't worked harder on that aspect of the game, he just isn't as talented there. Luckily, he has learned to adjust and turned himself into a rich rich man lol

Free throw shooting is not talent.

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[HurricaneKid]

There's quite a few spots on the glass from straight on front you can hit and it will still go in. You can even slam a ball into the glass and it will go in, where as it will never do that trying to drop it in from a height

More margin of error than trying to land a ball in a hole if you are not good at that

And physics teachers throughout the world weep.

Banking a 15 foot shot from straight ahead increases the difficulty by magnitudes. Its a longer shot that needs to be WAY more precise.

A lot of bad free throw shooters shoot long by default. You don't even need a good arc when banking from straight on. You just need a little bit of accuracy. You don't need a lovely loopy trajectory or lovely backspin, 2 of the main sticking points with bad FT shooters.

You might as well suggest that they shoot over their heads facing the other direction. It is simple science. You are wrong. You have to be more precise making bank shots AND do not have the backboard to help redirect your miss. And it is a longer shot.

[The_Answer]

Kobe's field goal attempts were far too high to sustain good 3pt shooting percentages. Yes, he wasn't Ray Allen but he was an above average 3pt shooter. You're really telling me that shooting free throws is an ability that is capped at below 50%? That is horse s***

No, but look at their forms. Repetition and hard work will maximize the most you get out of your ability, but it won't mean anything substantial if your ability has major flaws. You're blinded by the notion that "they're just not working hard enough" without having spent a minute in a gym with any of these players. However, anyone--player, coach, fan or otherwise--can see that DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard and Drummond have irreparable flaws in their current techniques, which they can't seem to shake. No amount of hard work will make them dependable free throw shooters because it has to do with mental barriers and technique's they can neither grasp nor can be taught.

[Tiesto_Lakers]

Because it's harder.

[wutevahung]

Posts like this are mind-boggling. It is clear that OP has very limited experience playing bball before. I suggest OP to take the time and go shoot around for 10 minutes.

[DuckIII]

I've shot free throws with bad spin before and the ball hits glass and goes straight down.

That's called luck.

Everyone in this thread has told you that your idea is not going to work, it isn't a scientifically valid solution, and the reason no one does it is because its harder and not easier.

I don't know why you are still trying to defend this lame theory, and there doesn't appear to be any point in further trying to convince you.

[magicman1978]

Devil's advocate - those basketball games they have in the arcades, and even the ones they use at the fair. Most people do better banking those shots in. Why couldn't that apply here?