The MeloPause Trade Thread

[King of Canada]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

The next 2 years of free agency after this one are both pretty trash. So why not let those 2 youngins grow in the D-League while we wait til Noah and Andersons contracts expire.

Honestly I'm not interested in any free agency until 2021 anyway.


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I'd think about it. We could then trade Lee for a 1st, and attach the 1st to Anderson to move him to the Nets.

[Battery]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

The next 2 years of free agency after this one are both pretty trash. So why not let those 2 youngins grow in the D-League while we wait til Noah and Andersons contracts expire.

Honestly I'm not interested in any free agency until 2021 anyway.


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Hell yes. I'll even take Meyers Leonard along with an unprotected first.

[Thugger HBC]

Please break it down.

Some are playing both sides of the fence.

This first part is the statement.

They cool with a top pick and cool with keeping Melo,

This is the explanation. Making a a 2018 draft thread before the season starts is all cool, you're interested in that. That's fine.

You also have no issues with Melo staying, as a matter of fact you stated go "all in" if so, means ditch the draft, youth etc. That's what all-in means, basically go for broke to get it. That's fine too if that's what you want.

but neither can happen together.

this part is quite simple. You can't have both. It's one or the other thus you're playing both sides of the fence.

I said i PREFER to rebuild but if we keep melo, lets make a deep playoff squad.

What's wrong with that?

When I say go "all in" that doesn't mean trade all our picks, and ditch the youth. Ditching the youth would mean trading Frank, Timmy, KP....

It's pretty obvious you can't get both sides. How can you be a playoff team and rebuild hard in the draft?
I never said I wanted both of that, because that's impossible.

There's nothing wrong with being cool with either option. I can't speak for you

Now quote me where I said it was wrong. I clearly said......that's fine.

[thisiskoz]

But that's not at all what happened. If Phil did that, then Melo would have been traded for whatever junk deal was available from Cleveland or LA before the deadline. Phil saying that Melo holds the ball too much, or doesn't change his ways, is not the same as "I need to get rid of this right now", which is what you are trying to imply, similar to a fire sale or going out of business sale.

Carmelo's lowered trade demand was from the NTC, not from any comments from Phil. Sacramento could have the highest demand for Melo, but they never would have been able to make a deal unless Melo agreed to waive the NTC. They could have said "we'll trade every first round pick for the next decade for Melo", and it wouldn't matter at all.

Phil said he'd be better off elsewhere. If you want to choose to dance around the obvious and say that's not what he really meant, do you. In reality it meant we're going to move melo. Once you've committed to that you've lost leverage.

And as long as there are teams that would trade for melo and that melo would go to, the Ntc is largely irrelevant regarding his value. Because as has already been said it's not a must trade clause. You either meet asking price or we walk away. Yes you lose the ability to play one party against another, but the ntc doesn't impact value in a single negotiation in a vacuum as long as the team wants melo and melo will waive his ntc to go to the team.

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Not dancing around anything. Phil never said he needed to trade him right now. Saying he'd have a better chance to win elsewhere was the truth. None of it was anything that all 30 teams didn't already know.

By your logic Phil can say Melo is better than MJ, and will only trade him for 10 picks. Do you think Phil's comments are powerful enough to make someone pay that?

Nice attempt at a straw man there. It doesn't work that way. If ten picks is the asking price and we're willing to walk away, then no deal gets done.

The difference is Phil did pretty much everything but explicitly say melo will not be a knick next year. Saying we won't walk away. We'll take whatever the best offer is. Well once you convey that, you're negotiating from a position of weakness.

I hope I some of you are salespeople and I end up trying to buy something from you

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[magnumt]

woj got more overall but shams got more of the big names

Yeah , but since joining ESPN Woj has been mooching like CRAZY on everything "...with Woj".

Makes you wonder if overall, Sham was the real more connected guy there.

They're all afraid of Woj in the media too for some reason. So he keeps getting away with it.

He keeps tagging himself onto Begley & Ramona stories nonstop.

--Mags

[drekwins]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

The next 2 years of free agency after this one are both pretty trash. So why not let those 2 youngins grow in the D-League while we wait til Noah and Andersons contracts expire.

Honestly I'm not interested in any free agency until 2021 anyway.


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There are no indications that this has ever been offered. Also, I'd still prefer an expiring/2 year deal instead of Anderson. However, they're few and far between. The only possible moveable 2 year or less deals over 13M per year are:

1) Wade
2) Aldridge
3) Kanter
4) Monroe
5) Wes Matthews
6) Tobias Harris
7) Eric Bledsoe
8) Robin Lopez
9) Tyson Chandler
10) Faried
11) Thad Young
12) Gortat

Any deal that involves Ryan Anderson should first be discussed with these teams. Who would rather have Ryan Anderson than the guys on this list? To me, Milwaukee, OKC, Detroit, Washington and Denver make the most sense. Anderson is still a good player. He's just not right for us. I could easily see OKC or Milwaukee wanting/needing the outside shooting more than Monroe or Kanter.

I'd then try to structure a deal around:

HOU GETS: Melo
NY GETS: Monroe or Kanter
MIL or OKC: Anderson

Of course, more players would need to be added but it's a much smaller gap starting there than where we are right now.

[BrOnXKing1]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

The next 2 years of free agency after this one are both pretty trash. So why not let those 2 youngins grow in the D-League while we wait til Noah and Andersons contracts expire.

Honestly I'm not interested in any free agency until 2021 anyway.


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Hell yes. I'll even take Meyers Leonard along with an unprotected first.

These terrible ideas specifically Ryan Anderson. We get locked into one of NBA's worst contracts for 3 years and the asessts are not impressive. The two picks will be in the mid to high 20's, Z.Qi sucks really bag.

[newyorker4ever]

Bledsoe
Frank
Lee
Melo
KP

You got Timmy as 6th man and Willy as 7th

That's a nice ass team

Timmy will not in no way be coming off the bench. He started 11 games at SF for Atl last year and his ppg avg was higher then the games he started at SG last year. Oh and by the way.....................$71 million.

[magnumt]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

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In a fuqn HEARTBEAT!!!

Two young prospects, and TWO unprotected picks?! Anderson can still play well in the regular Season too, so he can still be eventually flipped.

We'd have THREE first rounders as a stockpile to accompany our youth.

--Mags

[MadGrinch]

i think the end result is bledsoe or seth curry

they are smart for taking a break and letting one of the best GM's (morey ) figure something out

the knicks dont need anderson nor gordon , they need a point guard who can run hornacek's offense so they can ease frank in

the suns and the mavs have extra point guards , so basically let Morey figure out how to satisfy the knicks needs

seth curry is NEGATIVE defense, and while a combo guard technically, he's really a 2. had a heck of a season in dallas this past year.

actually he isnt a negative on defense at all.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2

http://www.82games.com/1617/16DAL8.HTM#onoff

by any rational you use the mavericks were better on both sides of the ball with curry on the court ...but he is 6'2 and they have DSj , yogi jj barrera and devin harris , he was/is going to play some 2 and its not ideal

[Thugger HBC]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

In a fuqn HEARTBEAT!!!

Two young prospects, and TWO unprotected picks?! Anderson can still play well in the regular Season too, so he can still be eventually flipped.

We'd have THREE first rounders as a stockpile to accompany our youth.

--Mags

Mills/Perry would be exec of the year candidates pulling that off.

[Battery]

Question:

Do yall take Anderson's contract on for 2 unprotected 1sts, Z.Qi and Hartenstein?

The next 2 years of free agency after this one are both pretty trash. So why not let those 2 youngins grow in the D-League while we wait til Noah and Andersons contracts expire.

Honestly I'm not interested in any free agency until 2021 anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Hell yes. I'll even take Meyers Leonard along with an unprotected first.

These terrible ideas specifically Ryan Anderson. We get locked into one of NBA's worst contracts for 3 years and the asessts are not impressive. The two picks will be in the mid to high 20's, Z.Qi sucks really bag.

I'll take my chances in the West with unprotected picks. Paul is old, so is Melo. Harden can get hurt. Paul and Melo could both be gone after this season. Ryan Anderson is irrelevant. Are we signing a superstar? No. So who gives a crap about the salary cap? Build through the draft and when it's time to sign a free agent, the crappy contracts will be gone. Long-term strategy!!!

[drekwins]

Hell yes. I'll even take Meyers Leonard along with an unprotected first.

These terrible ideas specifically Ryan Anderson. We get locked into one of NBA's worst contracts for 3 years and the asessts are not impressive. The two picks will be in the mid to high 20's, Z.Qi sucks really bag.

I'll take my chances in the West with unprotected picks. Paul is old, so is Melo. Harden can get hurt. Paul and Melo could both be gone after this season. Ryan Anderson is irrelevant. Are we signing a superstar? No. So who gives a crap about the salary cap? Build through the draft and when it's time to sign a free agent, the crappy contracts will be gone. Long-term strategy!!!

Salary cap always matters. It doesn't just hurt with FAs. It makes trading much more difficult.

[magnumt]

Means Woj beat Shams by 17 seconds.

Oh so it's the time between the two tweets..Got it. Thanks

Read on Twitter

Sham actually broke the THJr signing.

--Mags

[NYKnicks6]

I'm glad we walked away from the table. Regroup with the new GM and go back to the table with our front office all on the same page. I don't understand why everyone is in such a rush. The season doesn't begin for another few months.

[Sark]

Phil said he'd be better off elsewhere. If you want to choose to dance around the obvious and say that's not what he really meant, do you. In reality it meant we're going to move melo. Once you've committed to that you've lost leverage.

And as long as there are teams that would trade for melo and that melo would go to, the Ntc is largely irrelevant regarding his value. Because as has already been said it's not a must trade clause. You either meet asking price or we walk away. Yes you lose the ability to play one party against another, but the ntc doesn't impact value in a single negotiation in a vacuum as long as the team wants melo and melo will waive his ntc to go to the team.

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Not dancing around anything. Phil never said he needed to trade him right now. Saying he'd have a better chance to win elsewhere was the truth. None of it was anything that all 30 teams didn't already know.

By your logic Phil can say Melo is better than MJ, and will only trade him for 10 picks. Do you think Phil's comments are powerful enough to make someone pay that?

Nice attempt at a straw man there. It doesn't work that way. If ten picks is the asking price and we're willing to walk away, then no deal gets done.

The difference is Phil did pretty much everything but explicitly say melo will not be a knick next year. Saying we won't walk away. We'll take whatever the best offer is. Well once you convey that, you're negotiating from a position of weakness.

I hope I some of you are salespeople and I end up trying to buy something from you

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That's not a straw man. That's the opposite end of the spectrum.

Again Phil could've said anything he wanted, and he still couldn't trade Melo unless Melo waived the NTC. He literally couldn't say Melo won't be on the team because he didn't have the power to do that. Melo controlled his own trade value. Not Phil.

[Battery]

These terrible ideas specifically Ryan Anderson. We get locked into one of NBA's worst contracts for 3 years and the asessts are not impressive. The two picks will be in the mid to high 20's, Z.Qi sucks really bag.

I'll take my chances in the West with unprotected picks. Paul is old, so is Melo. Harden can get hurt. Paul and Melo could both be gone after this season. Ryan Anderson is irrelevant. Are we signing a superstar? No. So who gives a crap about the salary cap? Build through the draft and when it's time to sign a free agent, the crappy contracts will be gone. Long-term strategy!!!

Salary cap always matters. It doesn't just hurt with FAs. It makes trading much more difficult.

Short-term yes, long-term not so much. Unprotected picks are worth more than salary cap space right now unless you tell me we're getting a superstar or we are at the point where we're one player away from seriously competing for a championship. Are we? No. The salary cap is meaningless right now.

[delvec19]

Read on Twitter

[drekwins]

I'll take my chances in the West with unprotected picks. Paul is old, so is Melo. Harden can get hurt. Paul and Melo could both be gone after this season. Ryan Anderson is irrelevant. Are we signing a superstar? No. So who gives a crap about the salary cap? Build through the draft and when it's time to sign a free agent, the crappy contracts will be gone. Long-term strategy!!!

Salary cap always matters. It doesn't just hurt with FAs. It makes trading much more difficult.

Short-term yes, long-term not so much. Unprotected picks are worth more than salary cap space right now unless you tell me we're getting a superstar or we are at the point where we're one player away from seriously competing for a championship. Are we? No. The salary cap is meaningless right now.

Okay, but we have no idea what those picks are going to be. Sure, they could be really good but what if they're not? What if next year (or 2 years from now), a much worse team is offering a pick/prospect for taking on a player... similar to what LAL did with Russell? But, we can't do it because of Ryan effing Anderson. I'd much rather have that return than 2 picks in the late 20's and 2 low-end prospects. Basketball prospects are not like baseball prospects. You get 4 baseball ones in a trade and 1 ends up being good-to-great in the majors. The overwhelming majority of non-top 10 prospects are not going to be good or contribute ever in the NBA.

IMO, I'd like Houston's picks but I'm not putting any value on Qi or the other scrub. Ideally, we'd get a pick because Melo is simply better than Anderson and an expiring contract so that we could work future deals to get more picks.

[thebuzzardman]

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I was a big proponent of trading Melo due to offensive fit with Jackson's scheme and also the reality of trying to get assets for him. But with the NTC, it's tough to do and if a good deal isn't there, I'm sort of intrigued to roll with Melo and no Rose and no Triangle.

Now, the "Melo needs a real PG" issue isn't solved, in that Frank N is young and unproven. But Melo and the offense should look a ton better minus Rose.

Of course, this hurts the tank, but, Knicks. I don't endorse that. In fact, I want the Knicks DEEP in the tank this one last year because of Donic, Porter and Bonga or whatever his name is a consolation prize.

But if all there is is crap deals, stay Melo.