Markelle Fultz Discussion

[ivysixer2000]

We want Fultz to be as good as he could be obviously. I'm saying that for the trade to be a success he only has to be the third banana on our team.

The lack of NBA games for Embiid and Simmons doesn't mean that they aren't superstars. Shaq, and Lebron were superstars before they played their first NBA game.

I agree that they have to prove it on the court for the league to generally consider them superstars.

I mean Giannis has been an obvious superstar for a few years, but probably only this past year did the consensus opinion on him get to that point.

KAT is also a superstar, but he probably isn't considered one yet by a lot of people. I think it is just a formality that he gets there.

Embiid and Simmons are in that group.


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We will probably have to agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. The trade is a success if Fultz is an all-star in his own right, you don't trade up to #1 for a role player.

Comparing Embiid and Simmons to Shaq and Lebron coming in the league, I can't see that at all. Shaq and Lebron were probably 2 of the most hyped players coming in for their generations of players. The other players you mentioned, they have played in the league alot more, but they weren't superstars coming in.

Ok, I think Simmons and Embiid are better than you do. That's fine.

I agree with you that as long as Fultz is an allstar then the trade was a success. I said that above. He doesn't have to be better than Josh Jackson and another lottery pick. He just has to be an allstar in his own right.

If he becomes as good as Lilard or Irving then it would be a good trade, and then I believe that he would firmly be our third best player.


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Ok, I think Fultz is better than you do. That's fine also.

Who knows what Fultz will be when he's Embiid's age, that's 4 years from now. I'm sure Embiid is better now than when he was 19. Your not seeing that I'm not downing Embiid or Simmons, what I'm saying is you are acting like Fultz has limited upside and he is what he is so he has to be the 3rd banana. He's too young for assumptions like that.

We do know Embiid showed well in those few games last year, we have no idea what Simmons will do, all we can do is hope. Sure he's a great prospect, but you don't have to down one prospect's potential just to make another one look better.

[Chris76]

We want Fultz to be as good as he could be obviously. I'm saying that for the trade to be a success he only has to be the third banana on our team.

The lack of NBA games for Embiid and Simmons doesn't mean that they aren't superstars. Shaq, and Lebron were superstars before they played their first NBA game.

I agree that they have to prove it on the court for the league to generally consider them superstars.

I mean Giannis has been an obvious superstar for a few years, but probably only this past year did the consensus opinion on him get to that point.

KAT is also a superstar, but he probably isn't considered one yet by a lot of people. I think it is just a formality that he gets there.

Embiid and Simmons are in that group.


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We will probably have to agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. The trade is a success if Fultz is an all-star in his own right, you don't trade up to #1 for a role player.

Comparing Embiid and Simmons to Shaq and Lebron coming in the league, I can't see that at all. Shaq and Lebron were probably 2 of the most hyped players coming in for their generations of players. The other players you mentioned, they have played in the league alot more, but they weren't superstars coming in.

Ok, I think Simmons and Embiid are better than you do. That's fine.

I agree with you that as long as Fultz is an allstar then the trade was a success. I said that above. He doesn't have to be better than Josh Jackson and another lottery pick. He just has to be an allstar in his own right.

If he becomes as good as Lilard or Irving then it would be a good trade, and then I believe that he would firmly be our third best player.


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Simmons, Embiid, and Fultz have shown enough that when healthy have the potential to be a lethal trio. Usually, stars don't get a chance till older to play with other stars. Now, the Sixers have an opportunity to hit the ground running and quickly be competitive.

Also, many people haven't noticed how good the bench will be, because of all the losing. But some have improved in many ways, good coaching.

Fultz/Bayless/TJ
Redick/TLC/Stauskus
Covington/Poythress/Anderson/Korkmaz
Simmons/Saric/Holmes/Bolden
Embiid/Okafor/Amir Johnson

[Xpressure]

Watch on YouTube

[Unbreakable99]

Read on Twitter

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721215-nba-metrics-101-ranking-biggest-moves-of-the-offseason?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

6. Philadelphia 76ers Trade Up and Draft Markelle Fultz
5 OF 10

Ethan Miller/Getty Images
Was giving up this year's No. 3 pick (Jayson Tatum) and a future first-rounder worth Markelle Fultz?

Absolutely.

Cue FiveThirtyEight's Kyle Wagner, who detailed what makes the Washington guard such a special offensive prospect:

"Not just any player commands the sort of defensive attention Fultz saw—even when he is by far the best player on his team. And what makes Fultz special is how good he is shooting off the dribble in traffic. On all pull-up jumpers, he scored 102 points per 100 plays, which is already very good. But when he was working out of the pick-and-roll, that number shot up to 118 points per 100 plays, as Fultz took advantage of the little bit of daylight created by the screen to get a slightly better look or to a better spot on the floor.

"Having a god-tier pull-up jumper is an increasingly critical skill for NBA guards, but so is finishing at the rim. Being a genuine threat on the drive is the reason the pick-and-roll offense works—it's what makes James Harden and Russell Westbrook nightmares for opponents and what powers the LeBron Offense in Cleveland. And Fultz scored 130 points per 100 plays when going to the rim out of pick-and-roll plays."

All this sets Fultz up for early success.

Even with late-debuting prospects such as Teodosic and Ben Simmons likely to compete for Rookie of the Year, Fultz is the gem of this class. He's ready to contribute right away, and he should be a perfect fit next to Simmons and Joel Embiid for the Philadelphia 76ers.

So long as the point guard stays healthy, they should immediately become far more competitive in the weak Eastern Conference. Embiid's remaining on the floor is also key, but Fultz alone should give Philadelphia so much of what it was missing offensively, allowing it to skyrocket up the standings and compete for a playoff spot.

[Chris76]

Read on Twitter

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2721215-nba-metrics-101-ranking-biggest-moves-of-the-offseason?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

6. Philadelphia 76ers Trade Up and Draft Markelle Fultz
5 OF 10

Ethan Miller/Getty Images
Was giving up this year's No. 3 pick (Jayson Tatum) and a future first-rounder worth Markelle Fultz?

Absolutely.

Cue FiveThirtyEight's Kyle Wagner, who detailed what makes the Washington guard such a special offensive prospect:

"Not just any player commands the sort of defensive attention Fultz saw—even when he is by far the best player on his team. And what makes Fultz special is how good he is shooting off the dribble in traffic. On all pull-up jumpers, he scored 102 points per 100 plays, which is already very good. But when he was working out of the pick-and-roll, that number shot up to 118 points per 100 plays, as Fultz took advantage of the little bit of daylight created by the screen to get a slightly better look or to a better spot on the floor.

"Having a god-tier pull-up jumper is an increasingly critical skill for NBA guards, but so is finishing at the rim. Being a genuine threat on the drive is the reason the pick-and-roll offense works—it's what makes James Harden and Russell Westbrook nightmares for opponents and what powers the LeBron Offense in Cleveland. And Fultz scored 130 points per 100 plays when going to the rim out of pick-and-roll plays."

All this sets Fultz up for early success.

Even with late-debuting prospects such as Teodosic and Ben Simmons likely to compete for Rookie of the Year, Fultz is the gem of this class. He's ready to contribute right away, and he should be a perfect fit next to Simmons and Joel Embiid for the Philadelphia 76ers.

So long as the point guard stays healthy, they should immediately become far more competitive in the weak Eastern Conference. Embiid's remaining on the floor is also key, but Fultz alone should give Philadelphia so much of what it was missing offensively, allowing it to skyrocket up the standings and compete for a playoff spot.

Good article. Fultz fit is very important with teams making max contracts to keep their players. Fultz can play the 1 or 2 and Simmons the 4 and 3 (on defense). Both can make it easier for rosters to fit around them. Whether the Sixers need more defense or offense, the versatility of your stars will make more options available for teammates.

[Unbreakable99]

Read on Twitter

[76ciology]

https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/07/14/summer-league-takeaways-markelle-fultz/

[Ericb5]

We will probably have to agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. The trade is a success if Fultz is an all-star in his own right, you don't trade up to #1 for a role player.

Comparing Embiid and Simmons to Shaq and Lebron coming in the league, I can't see that at all. Shaq and Lebron were probably 2 of the most hyped players coming in for their generations of players. The other players you mentioned, they have played in the league alot more, but they weren't superstars coming in.

Ok, I think Simmons and Embiid are better than you do. That's fine.

I agree with you that as long as Fultz is an allstar then the trade was a success. I said that above. He doesn't have to be better than Josh Jackson and another lottery pick. He just has to be an allstar in his own right.

If he becomes as good as Lilard or Irving then it would be a good trade, and then I believe that he would firmly be our third best player.


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Ok, I think Fultz is better than you do. That's fine also.

Who knows what Fultz will be when he's Embiid's age, that's 4 years from now. I'm sure Embiid is better now than when he was 19. Your not seeing that I'm not downing Embiid or Simmons, what I'm saying is you are acting like Fultz has limited upside and he is what he is so he has to be the 3rd banana. He's too young for assumptions like that.

We do know Embiid showed well in those few games last year, we have no idea what Simmons will do, all we can do is hope. Sure he's a great prospect, but you don't have to down one prospect's potential just to make another one look better.

I do think that Fultz has limited upside in the sense that he isn't a franchise player or talent. If he turns into Harden I'll admit that I was wrong, but I think he is a Irving or Lillard type at best, which btw is a really good player!

I think that he could turn into an Eric Gordon or Bradley Beal type too, which is a lesser player. A quality starter on a good team, but a non star.




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[LongLiveHinkie]

I got news for you, if Fultz turns into Kyrie or Lillard then we got the best player in the draft. There is no player in this draft who will develop into a better player than Kyrie or Dame.

[LloydFree]

Ok, I think Simmons and Embiid are better than you do. That's fine.

I agree with you that as long as Fultz is an allstar then the trade was a success. I said that above. He doesn't have to be better than Josh Jackson and another lottery pick. He just has to be an allstar in his own right.

If he becomes as good as Lilard or Irving then it would be a good trade, and then I believe that he would firmly be our third best player.


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Ok, I think Fultz is better than you do. That's fine also.

Who knows what Fultz will be when he's Embiid's age, that's 4 years from now. I'm sure Embiid is better now than when he was 19. Your not seeing that I'm not downing Embiid or Simmons, what I'm saying is you are acting like Fultz has limited upside and he is what he is so he has to be the 3rd banana. He's too young for assumptions like that.

We do know Embiid showed well in those few games last year, we have no idea what Simmons will do, all we can do is hope. Sure he's a great prospect, but you don't have to down one prospect's potential just to make another one look better.

I do think that Fultz has limited upside in the sense that he isn't a franchise player or talent. If he turns into Harden I'll admit that I was wrong, but I think he is a Irving or Lillard type at best, which btw is a really good player!

I think that he could turn into an Eric Gordon or Bradley Beal type too, which is a lesser player. A quality starter on a good team, but a non star.

Young Eric Gordon is exactly who I see when looking at Fultz. Body type not much different either. It's hard to use him as a comp, because Gordon has had so many injuries. But Fultz's skills and physical traits remind me a lot of Freshman Eric Gordon.

[ivysixer2000]

Ok, I think Simmons and Embiid are better than you do. That's fine.

I agree with you that as long as Fultz is an allstar then the trade was a success. I said that above. He doesn't have to be better than Josh Jackson and another lottery pick. He just has to be an allstar in his own right.

If he becomes as good as Lilard or Irving then it would be a good trade, and then I believe that he would firmly be our third best player.


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Ok, I think Fultz is better than you do. That's fine also.

Who knows what Fultz will be when he's Embiid's age, that's 4 years from now. I'm sure Embiid is better now than when he was 19. Your not seeing that I'm not downing Embiid or Simmons, what I'm saying is you are acting like Fultz has limited upside and he is what he is so he has to be the 3rd banana. He's too young for assumptions like that.

We do know Embiid showed well in those few games last year, we have no idea what Simmons will do, all we can do is hope. Sure he's a great prospect, but you don't have to down one prospect's potential just to make another one look better.

I do think that Fultz has limited upside in the sense that he isn't a franchise player or talent. If he turns into Harden I'll admit that I was wrong, but I think he is a Irving or Lillard type at best, which btw is a really good player!

I think that he could turn into an Eric Gordon or Bradley Beal type too, which is a lesser player. A quality starter on a good team, but a non star.




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While those are great players in Irving or Lillard, I do believe you are discounting his athleticism cause Fultz will probably block a shot a game which is very unguardlike.

We would be fine though if he ended up like them, all-stars in their own rights, which was what I'm saying we need Fultz to be anyway. I'd take that and run.

[PhilBlackson]

Watch on YouTube

What a difference when he's not being interviewed lol sorry but he seems awkward as hell when someone puts a mic in front of him but it's nice to get a sense of what he's like with his teammates.

As for the convo about Fultz being a "franchise" player, he's not (period). But here he doesn't need to be because there are two of them already in Simmons and Embiid. He just needs to be a high level all-star scorer like a Kyrie type. I seen some comparisons to Gordon and Beal but Fultz has shown better ballhandling and passing than either so I fully expect him to be better than both of those two. He's not going to be a Harden or Curry type of player that just completely dominates and changes the way a team plays their defense to guard him in particular but like an Irving they will have to watch him at all times or pay the price.

I think Embiid is actually the most talented of the 3 which kind of sucks because there's really no guarantee he'll ever be able to handle an entire NBA season, never mind Playoffs. But I think Simmons' ability to suck in the defense and hit open shooters plays exactly into how the game is played now ie/ LBJ, Harden, Curry, Westbrook etc cause teams to collapse and either give up the easy basket or they nail passes to shooters and Simmons is as gifted of a passer as I've ever seen. With Embiid this team is all but guaranteed a dynasty imo, without him they're guaranteed to be a top team in the East until they get that "3rd star" for a Big 3.

[JojoSlimbiid]

He plays nothing like Eric Gordon. Outside of them both having round faces that comparison is f'in awful.

[Cheatergriffin]

He plays nothing like Eric Gordon. Outside of them both having round faces that comparison is f'in awful.

Pretty sure gordon is what 6'3 and has never learned how to dribble. At same time Injuries have derailed his career.

[ProcessDoctor]

I might be higher on Fultz than others, but I can see him being just a notch below D-Wade. He's not as athletic or as big, but he's just as crafty, long, and a better shooter. The thing that's going to separate him from being Lillard vs. Wade is how he develops on the defensive end. He'll probably get steals and blocks at a decent rate, but learning team defense will be the real key.

[Chris76]

Ok, I think Simmons and Embiid are better than you do. That's fine.

I agree with you that as long as Fultz is an allstar then the trade was a success. I said that above. He doesn't have to be better than Josh Jackson and another lottery pick. He just has to be an allstar in his own right.

If he becomes as good as Lilard or Irving then it would be a good trade, and then I believe that he would firmly be our third best player.


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Ok, I think Fultz is better than you do. That's fine also.

Who knows what Fultz will be when he's Embiid's age, that's 4 years from now. I'm sure Embiid is better now than when he was 19. Your not seeing that I'm not downing Embiid or Simmons, what I'm saying is you are acting like Fultz has limited upside and he is what he is so he has to be the 3rd banana. He's too young for assumptions like that.

We do know Embiid showed well in those few games last year, we have no idea what Simmons will do, all we can do is hope. Sure he's a great prospect, but you don't have to down one prospect's potential just to make another one look better.

I do think that Fultz has limited upside in the sense that he isn't a franchise player or talent. If he turns into Harden I'll admit that I was wrong, but I think he is a Irving or Lillard type at best, which btw is a really good player!

I think that he could turn into an Eric Gordon or Bradley Beal type too, which is a lesser player. A quality starter on a good team, but a non star.




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From a team perspective, who fits better?

Wall, Otto Porter, Gortat
Lillard, McCullom, Nurkic
IT, Hayward, Horford

Fultz, Simmons, Embiid

Some good trios moving forward. Most games will be decided by how well they fit together. Most importantly, Embiid has a chance to impact the game more on defense and rim protection than those centers.

[igotthatheat]

This:



contradicts this:

both things can be true. His teammates were not good in Washington.

But at the same time hes kinda like Wiggins were hes obviously skilled and can get buckets but at the same time he drifts out of games, plays with low effort on defense, and doesnt have that big an impact overall.

We were hearing the exact same thing about Simmons too. When you play on bad teams with bad players things like this are going to be highlighted.

If Simmons had played at Duke instead of LSU he would be a winner with no weaknesses. If Fultz had played at Kansas instead of Washington exactly the same.

I mean look at Javale McGee... absolutely laughing stock... joins Golden State and suddenly he looks like a top 5 center. That's the way it works.

If anything guys like Simmons and Fultz will thrive and be even better than they were in College with better players around them creating more space for them to work in. It's natural that guys playing in losing sides with no talented teammates are going to struggle to maintain intensity. I don't think it has any bearing on how they will be in the NBA though.

Im a big fan of Simmons. I think him leading LSU to a .500 record was impressive considering the team he had, and I think him and Embiid are monsters, if they stay healthy thats a scary duo.

Fultz on the other hand ...
him making Washington .500 team was a very realistic goal....but he didnt accomplish that. They went 9-22. Thats a HUGE difference. he couldnt finish out the season (could be bad luck or an ongoing thing ..we dont know yet, i guess well find out). Hes a SG to me and a good scorer but his impact on the game is minimal

Lonzo Ball led UCLA to a 31-5 with a lot of the same players that were on the team the year before that went under .500
Dennis Smith was in a similar situation as Fultz , with bad teammates and he led them to a .500 record. (like Simmons did last year)

Now everyone acts surprised that hes killing it for the Mavs in Summer League. I guess Im just a little surprised at how these things were ignored before the draft, I really think people got influenced by Draft Express and online 'draft experts'.

[Chris76]

both things can be true. His teammates were not good in Washington.

But at the same time hes kinda like Wiggins were hes obviously skilled and can get buckets but at the same time he drifts out of games, plays with low effort on defense, and doesnt have that big an impact overall.

We were hearing the exact same thing about Simmons too. When you play on bad teams with bad players things like this are going to be highlighted.

If Simmons had played at Duke instead of LSU he would be a winner with no weaknesses. If Fultz had played at Kansas instead of Washington exactly the same.

I mean look at Javale McGee... absolutely laughing stock... joins Golden State and suddenly he looks like a top 5 center. That's the way it works.

If anything guys like Simmons and Fultz will thrive and be even better than they were in College with better players around them creating more space for them to work in. It's natural that guys playing in losing sides with no talented teammates are going to struggle to maintain intensity. I don't think it has any bearing on how they will be in the NBA though.

Im a big fan of Simmons. I think him leading LSU to a .500 record was impressive considering the team he had, and I think him and Embiid are monsters, if they stay healthy thats a scary duo.

Fultz on the other hand ...
him making Washington .500 team was a very realistic goal....but he didnt accomplish that. They went 9-22. Thats a HUGE difference. he couldnt finish out the season (could be bad luck or an ongoing thing ..we dont know yet, i guess well find out). Hes a SG to me and a good scorer but his impact on the game is minimal

Lonzo Ball led UCLA to a 31-5 with a lot of the same players that were on the team the year before that went under .500
Dennis Smith was in a similar situation as Fultz , with bad teammates and he led them to a .500 record. (like Simmons did last year)

Now everyone acts surprised that hes killing it for the Mavs in Summer League. I guess Im just a little surprised at how these things were ignored before the draft, I really think people got influenced by Draft Express and online 'draft experts'.

It's funny how people judge a prospect on a team's record and ignore the skills a prospect displays. Fultz displayed unique shooting skills that are elite and should transition well to the NBA. A nice Kobe-Ray Allen type skill set that is perfect with Embiid and Simmons.

Anyway, DSJ is a great prospect and should do well, too. However, I'm afraid of how his athleticism may lead to awkward falls and injuries. It's amazing how Westbrook stays healthy. Anyway, He already had some issues with his knees. Anyone can easily get hurt, but this could of lowered DSJ value in the draft.

[LloydFree]

both things can be true. His teammates were not good in Washington.

But at the same time hes kinda like Wiggins were hes obviously skilled and can get buckets but at the same time he drifts out of games, plays with low effort on defense, and doesnt have that big an impact overall.

We were hearing the exact same thing about Simmons too. When you play on bad teams with bad players things like this are going to be highlighted.

If Simmons had played at Duke instead of LSU he would be a winner with no weaknesses. If Fultz had played at Kansas instead of Washington exactly the same.

I mean look at Javale McGee... absolutely laughing stock... joins Golden State and suddenly he looks like a top 5 center. That's the way it works.

If anything guys like Simmons and Fultz will thrive and be even better than they were in College with better players around them creating more space for them to work in. It's natural that guys playing in losing sides with no talented teammates are going to struggle to maintain intensity. I don't think it has any bearing on how they will be in the NBA though.

Im a big fan of Simmons. I think him leading LSU to a .500 record was impressive considering the team he had, and I think him and Embiid are monsters, if they stay healthy thats a scary duo.

Fultz on the other hand ...
him making Washington .500 team was a very realistic goal....but he didnt accomplish that. They went 9-22. Thats a HUGE difference. he couldnt finish out the season (could be bad luck or an ongoing thing ..we dont know yet, i guess well find out). Hes a SG to me and a good scorer but his impact on the game is minimal

Lonzo Ball led UCLA to a 31-5 with a lot of the same players that were on the team the year before that went under .500
Dennis Smith was in a similar situation as Fultz , with bad teammates and he led them to a .500 record. (like Simmons did last year)

Now everyone acts surprised that hes killing it for the Mavs in Summer League. I guess Im just a little surprised at how these things were ignored before the draft, I really think people got influenced by Draft Express and online 'draft experts'.

I'm convinced people didn't watch these players, other than an occasional highlights video on YouTube. Reading scouting reports from the non-scouts on draft sites built a consensus. DraftExpress tells people what their opinions should be on these players. That's why there is some shock at what these players look like in summer league. Nobody is doing anything in Summer League that they didn't do all year.

It's a joke that Dennis Smith fell to 9th in this draft. He was one of the top 3-4 players in this draft.

[Chris76]

We were hearing the exact same thing about Simmons too. When you play on bad teams with bad players things like this are going to be highlighted.

If Simmons had played at Duke instead of LSU he would be a winner with no weaknesses. If Fultz had played at Kansas instead of Washington exactly the same.

I mean look at Javale McGee... absolutely laughing stock... joins Golden State and suddenly he looks like a top 5 center. That's the way it works.

If anything guys like Simmons and Fultz will thrive and be even better than they were in College with better players around them creating more space for them to work in. It's natural that guys playing in losing sides with no talented teammates are going to struggle to maintain intensity. I don't think it has any bearing on how they will be in the NBA though.

Im a big fan of Simmons. I think him leading LSU to a .500 record was impressive considering the team he had, and I think him and Embiid are monsters, if they stay healthy thats a scary duo.

Fultz on the other hand ...
him making Washington .500 team was a very realistic goal....but he didnt accomplish that. They went 9-22. Thats a HUGE difference. he couldnt finish out the season (could be bad luck or an ongoing thing ..we dont know yet, i guess well find out). Hes a SG to me and a good scorer but his impact on the game is minimal

Lonzo Ball led UCLA to a 31-5 with a lot of the same players that were on the team the year before that went under .500
Dennis Smith was in a similar situation as Fultz , with bad teammates and he led them to a .500 record. (like Simmons did last year)

Now everyone acts surprised that hes killing it for the Mavs in Summer League. I guess Im just a little surprised at how these things were ignored before the draft, I really think people got influenced by Draft Express and online 'draft experts'.

I'm convinced people didn't watch these players, other than an occasional highlights video on YouTube. Reading scouting reports from the non-scouts on draft sites built a consensus. DraftExpress tells people what their opinions should be on these players. That's why there is some shock at what these players look like in summer league. Nobody is doing anything in Summer League that they didn't do all year.

It's a joke that Dennis Smith fell to 9th in this draft. He was one of the top 3-4 players in this draft.

I agree that DSJ is a good prospect. The Knicks could've had a lineup of these guys without breaking the bank:

DSJ
KCP
Carmelo
Porzingis
Okafor