Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[Puff]

But...but....but.... i thought the almighty GamboGod said Knight would never play another game in a Suns jersey.

He did say that but changed his tune this week.

I looked at all contracts around the league and Knight has one of the worst contracts around the league. Actually there are some worse, like Noah and Mosgov, but I really do not see a way in hell that Knight is not a Phoenix Sun come November. The only other option is if he is somehow part of a much bigger deal, like the Houston/Knick deal. However I do not think the Suns want to take on Anderson's deal for him. It does not meet their standards for the deal to happen and the Knick's basically would get Knight for Carmelo. That just is not going to happen without a lot of draft picks included. We are not going to take on Anderson's additional salary while giving away our draft picks to dump Knight.

If Morey is able to make that deal for Melo he is a true wizard.

I think I would prefer Anderson to Melo if I were the Rockets. If they do get Melo, MDA is going to have his hands full.

Knights contract isnt even close to being one of the worsts.

Noah
Mozgov
Deng
Barnes
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Bazemore
Carroll
Reggie Jackson
Biyombo

Are all worse than Knights. And those are just off the top of my head, i know there are a few more that im forgetting. The fact is $13M a season isnt actually all that bad, even for a back-up PG/SG.

Hell, Portland has 3 SG's under contract (McCollum/Crabbe/Turner) that all make over $17M!

I did not include them on prospective due to Portland having many contracts as bad as Knight's and for more money. Noah is guaranteed more money, same with Mosgov, Deng, Barnes, Crabbe, Turner, Jackson and Biyombo.

That is why these guys were no included on my list. Yes, they are as bad or worse than Knight's but they are not going to trade Knight for any of these guys if they adhere to their rules of the game. The want to replace Knight with a player or players for less money.

[Puff]

I think Ryan Anderson is a better player than Knight so I'd rather be stuck with Anderson's contract than Knight's honestly.

I agree with you. I like Anderson and I think he would not be that bad of a fit for us. However a trade for Anderson is not going to happen unless it is part of a Melo trade. I doubt the Knicks are going to trade Melo for Brandon Knight. That means we or the Rockets would have to add draft picks or another player of value to the deal to get Anderson. I don't see that happening.

[nevetsov]

I'd gladly do Knight to NYC for Courtney Lee. Experienced, quality backup 3&D SG so we don't need to throw Reed right in the deep end. Plus, we can never have enough shooters.

Knight can start over Frank, could probably even chuck alongside him, given he's listed as 6'5.

I wouldn't give up a first to make it happen, but I would throw in a guy like DJJ (most non-Suns fans probably remember him solely from the dunk contest, as an electric young guy with potential) or take back a midrange salary guy to even it up.

Failing that, I would think about Allen Crabbe straight up from Portland. More money but you get what you pay for.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The simplest knight solution might be to bring him back and have a fair competition between him, Reed, and Ulis for back up guard minutes. If he wins the minutes and plays well he probably becomes tradable or at least give awayable. If he can't beat out those two then he has nothing to pout about and can wear a suite this year and they can figure something out next summer when he only as two years left on his deal.

[Kerrsed]

He did say that but changed his tune this week.

I looked at all contracts around the league and Knight has one of the worst contracts around the league. Actually there are some worse, like Noah and Mosgov, but I really do not see a way in hell that Knight is not a Phoenix Sun come November. The only other option is if he is somehow part of a much bigger deal, like the Houston/Knick deal. However I do not think the Suns want to take on Anderson's deal for him. It does not meet their standards for the deal to happen and the Knick's basically would get Knight for Carmelo. That just is not going to happen without a lot of draft picks included. We are not going to take on Anderson's additional salary while giving away our draft picks to dump Knight.

If Morey is able to make that deal for Melo he is a true wizard.

I think I would prefer Anderson to Melo if I were the Rockets. If they do get Melo, MDA is going to have his hands full.

Knights contract isnt even close to being one of the worsts.

Noah
Mozgov
Deng
Barnes
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Bazemore
Carroll
Reggie Jackson
Biyombo

Are all worse than Knights. And those are just off the top of my head, i know there are a few more that im forgetting. The fact is $13M a season isnt actually all that bad, even for a back-up PG/SG.

Hell, Portland has 3 SG's under contract (McCollum/Crabbe/Turner) that all make over $17M!

I did not include them on prospective due to Portland having many contracts as bad as Knight's and for more money. Noah is guaranteed more money, same with Mosgov, Deng, Barnes, Crabbe, Turner, Jackson and Biyombo.

That is why these guys were no included on my list. Yes, they are as bad or worse than Knight's but they are not going to trade Knight for any of these guys if they adhere to their rules of the game. The want to replace Knight with a player or players for less money.

And i was only including them to rebuttal your "Knight has one of the worst contracts around the league" point.

[Puff]

Knights contract isnt even close to being one of the worsts.

Noah
Mozgov
Deng
Barnes
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Bazemore
Carroll
Reggie Jackson
Biyombo

Are all worse than Knights. And those are just off the top of my head, i know there are a few more that im forgetting. The fact is $13M a season isnt actually all that bad, even for a back-up PG/SG.

Hell, Portland has 3 SG's under contract (McCollum/Crabbe/Turner) that all make over $17M!

I did not include them on prospective due to Portland having many contracts as bad as Knight's and for more money. Noah is guaranteed more money, same with Mosgov, Deng, Barnes, Crabbe, Turner, Jackson and Biyombo.

That is why these guys were no included on my list. Yes, they are as bad or worse than Knight's but they are not going to trade Knight for any of these guys if they adhere to their rules of the game. The want to replace Knight with a player or players for less money.

And i was only including them to rebuttal your "Knight has one of the worst contracts around the league" point.

No problem. I am just trying to clean up the concept that we should be able to trade Knight. I suppose we can but it does not appear possible without taking on a player that is worse than Knight as well as more expensive. That apparently is not going to happen according to Gambo.

[Sunzgunz]

But...but....but.... i thought the almighty GamboGod said Knight would never play another game in a Suns jersey.

He did say that but changed his tune this week.

I looked at all contracts around the league and Knight has one of the worst contracts around the league. Actually there are some worse, like Noah and Mosgov, but I really do not see a way in hell that Knight is not a Phoenix Sun come November. The only other option is if he is somehow part of a much bigger deal, like the Houston/Knick deal. However I do not think the Suns want to take on Anderson's deal for him. It does not meet their standards for the deal to happen and the Knick's basically would get Knight for Carmelo. That just is not going to happen without a lot of draft picks included. We are not going to take on Anderson's additional salary while giving away our draft picks to dump Knight.

If Morey is able to make that deal for Melo he is a true wizard.

I think I would prefer Anderson to Melo if I were the Rockets. If they do get Melo, MDA is going to have his hands full.

Knights contract isnt even close to being one of the worsts.

Noah
Mozgov
Deng
Barnes
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Bazemore
Carroll
Reggie Jackson
Biyombo

Are all worse than Knights. And those are just off the top of my head, i know there are a few more that im forgetting. The fact is $13M a season isnt actually all that bad, even for a back-up PG/SG.

Hell, Portland has 3 SG's under contract (McCollum/Crabbe/Turner) that all make over $17M!

I agree! ...and I think patience is our remedy; to a certain extent.

1st off, I'll leave the Ilardi-Barzilai Model to the Schwartz's and Duffy's of the world!

For the sake of keeping things simple and with the assumption:

Current (Annual) Positional APM ÷ Current Annual Salary > Average Positional AMP ÷ Average Positional Annual Salary = Value

The variables that impact most are Knights Current APM as well as the Average Positional Salary.

The latter is rather simple. Despite current salary cap circumstances, the average positional salary is trending up, narrowing the gap between the average annual point guard salary versus Knight's annual salary. In the last three weeks alone we've seen contracts that have reduced some of the shock value many had with Knight's contract. I'm curious to see how much softer his contact will be by this time next year.

The other factor is Knights APM. I agree, his production is no where near the contract he received. But under the right circumstances his production could be better. I think when he failed to live up to the expectations of our acquisition cost, our contract and our coaching staff, it created a resentment that was void of restoration. Hopefully cooler heads prevail, or necessity, and he can salvage value under better circumstances.

I think a little bit of both will allow us to move him without giving up additional value pieces. ...and it's not like free agents are beating down the door to play here this season.

[Puff]

He did say that but changed his tune this week.

I looked at all contracts around the league and Knight has one of the worst contracts around the league. Actually there are some worse, like Noah and Mosgov, but I really do not see a way in hell that Knight is not a Phoenix Sun come November. The only other option is if he is somehow part of a much bigger deal, like the Houston/Knick deal. However I do not think the Suns want to take on Anderson's deal for him. It does not meet their standards for the deal to happen and the Knick's basically would get Knight for Carmelo. That just is not going to happen without a lot of draft picks included. We are not going to take on Anderson's additional salary while giving away our draft picks to dump Knight.

If Morey is able to make that deal for Melo he is a true wizard.

I think I would prefer Anderson to Melo if I were the Rockets. If they do get Melo, MDA is going to have his hands full.

Knights contract isnt even close to being one of the worsts.

Noah
Mozgov
Deng
Barnes
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Bazemore
Carroll
Reggie Jackson
Biyombo

Are all worse than Knights. And those are just off the top of my head, i know there are a few more that im forgetting. The fact is $13M a season isnt actually all that bad, even for a back-up PG/SG.

Hell, Portland has 3 SG's under contract (McCollum/Crabbe/Turner) that all make over $17M!

I agree! ...and I think patience is our remedy; to a certain extent.

1st off, I'll leave the Ilardi-Barzilai Model to the Schwartz's and Duffy's of the world!

For the sake of keeping things simple and with the assumption:

Current (Annual) Positional APM ÷ Current Annual Salary > Average Positional AMP ÷ Average Positional Annual Salary = Value

The variables that impact most are Knights Current APM as well as the Average Positional Salary.

The latter is rather simple. Despite current salary cap circumstances, the average positional salary is trending up, narrowing the gap between the average annual point guard salary versus Knight's annual salary. In the last three weeks alone we've seen contracts that have reduced some of the shock value many had with Knight's contract. I'm curious to see how much softer his contact will be by this time next year.

The other factor is Knights APM. I agree, his production is no where near the contract he received. But under the right circumstances his production could be better. I think when he failed to live up to the expectations of our acquisition cost, our contract and our coaching staff, it created a resentment that was void of restoration. Hopefully cooler heads prevail, or necessity, and he can salvage value under better circumstances.

I think a little bit of both will allow us to move him without giving up additional value pieces. ...and it's not like free agents are beating down the door to play here this season.

In all due respects I am not sure simple applies to your comments on the subject.

simple = No other team wants any part of Brandon Knight at this point in time.

[Kerrsed]

Sounds like we might have movement!

Read on Twitter

[JJ13]

Sounds like we might have movement!

Read on Twitter

Not saying it's wrong, but 800 followers is rissssky to put out there

[Sunzgunz]

Knights contract isnt even close to being one of the worsts.

Noah
Mozgov
Deng
Barnes
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Bazemore
Carroll
Reggie Jackson
Biyombo

Are all worse than Knights. And those are just off the top of my head, i know there are a few more that im forgetting. The fact is $13M a season isnt actually all that bad, even for a back-up PG/SG.

Hell, Portland has 3 SG's under contract (McCollum/Crabbe/Turner) that all make over $17M!

I agree! ...and I think patience is our remedy; to a certain extent.

1st off, I'll leave the Ilardi-Barzilai Model to the Schwartz's and Duffy's of the world!

For the sake of keeping things simple and with the assumption:

Current (Annual) Positional APM ÷ Current Annual Salary > Average Positional AMP ÷ Average Positional Annual Salary = Value

The variables that impact most are Knights Current APM as well as the Average Positional Salary.

The latter is rather simple. Despite current salary cap circumstances, the average positional salary is trending up, narrowing the gap between the average annual point guard salary versus Knight's annual salary. In the last three weeks alone we've seen contracts that have reduced some of the shock value many had with Knight's contract. I'm curious to see how much softer his contact will be by this time next year.

The other factor is Knights APM. I agree, his production is no where near the contract he received. But under the right circumstances his production could be better. I think when he failed to live up to the expectations of our acquisition cost, our contract and our coaching staff, it created a resentment that was void of restoration. Hopefully cooler heads prevail, or necessity, and he can salvage value under better circumstances.

I think a little bit of both will allow us to move him without giving up additional value pieces. ...and it's not like free agents are beating down the door to play here this season.

In all due respects I am not sure simple applies to your comments on the subject.

simple = No other team wants any part of Brandon Knight at this point in time.

Fair enough, but by 'Simple' i wasn't referring to the situation...i was referring to how value, contracts, etc are determined....google Ilardi-Barzilai value model and compare it to mine and you'll understand what I meant by simple

[MilotheSlayer]

What if we swapped Knight for Joseph and Jefferson from IND? We could run Jefferson as a backup C with Sauce. We could look at either renouncing Len or else moving Chandler for assets and starting Len. We can also look at moving Joseph as the year progresses and injuries happen.

[JMac1]

Well, the offseason looks like a wrap. Time to go all out on Football until October, Bucs get underway in less than two weeks. It's been real fellas. I'll holla back if Knight gets traded.

If anyone is going to Bucs Cardinals game, let me know, I'll be there. 1-1 against AZ on the road thus far.

[Qwigglez]

The most boring part of the offseason begins.

[King4Day]

I won't concede that the offseason is a wrap until the Melo deal happens since we very well could be a part of it.
And while that twitter link above isn't reputable, if it's true that it will be a 5 team trade (or even 4 team), there's absolutely a chance we'll be part of it.

[bigfoot]

Don't forget about Len being part of our off season ... it's not over until something happens with both Len and Knight.

[AtheJ415]

This is setting up to be the typical Suns off season. Touting the draft pick as an important piece of the future, while striking out with trades and free agency. Then a hard marketing sell on the wonders of developing youngsters in route to another 30 win season.

Who's on a treadmill now?


Exercise:
name McDo's top 3 FA acquisitions
Name his top 3 trades

Now add up the total talent infusion

Are you serious? Who do you actually think we should be targeting this offseason?

We are not treadmilling. We have been on a very consistent plan of rebuilding since the season after our surprise year. Not only that but we are so much better off when viewing this team's potential going forward than we have been in about a decade.

A sub-30 win season is also probably the best outcome to root for in terms of this team's future.

[AtheJ415]

This is setting up to be the typical Suns off season. Touting the draft pick as an important piece of the future, while striking out with trades and free agency. Then a hard marketing sell on the wonders of developing youngsters in route to another 30 win season.

Who's on a treadmill now?


Exercise:
name McDo's top 3 FA acquisitions
Name his top 3 trades

Now add up the total talent infusion

To be fair, name 5 other teams with equal value/talent acquired via draft, FA, trades in the last 5 years

Utah, Denver, Minnesota, Houston, Sacramento (yeah... I said it) and thats just in the west. And yes, I consider coaches to be 'talent' too.

To be fair, rather than compare our rebuilds to these other ones, why not just answer the questions posed?

My point is, McDo is sneakily failing this franchise masking his ineptitude with a perpetual rebuild. The can is continuously kicked down the road. I endorse a stream of good young talent. But this 'all in' youth movement timeline BS short changes the team AND the town. I am 90% sure he is full of ****. Listen to him. He's so GD happy someone coined the 'Timeline'. You really think he is on Plan A ? Seems the dude is too f-n stingy he is almost afraid to pull the trigger on a deal. There is no reason why we did not land Boogie... we had that deal beat. Same for De'angelo Russell. Now you can argue about whether or not these guys would be worth it... but you still have to acknowledge McDo has been nothing but a buttplugged spectator the past few off seasons. He can't even give away his best Free Agent signings nor his recent trades. Now he is beginning to echo Watson and his rainbow farting rhetoric. "We are so f-n high on all these players" that we can't begin to think of life without them. And now they are trying to convince the fan base.

Nut up McDo. You dont have to cancel the wonderful 'Timeline' to put a competitive team on the court.

Sacramento is so insanely incorrect I can't even fathom or process what could possibly be serious in that answer. Losing Cousins, adding Papa and Buddy Hield. Insanity.

Also, there is plenty of reason we didn't land either of the guys you list. Boogie--owner has been enfatuated with Buddy Hield for years, and they reportedly rejected better deals to accept that one. Russell--why the hell would the Lakers trade their promising former #2 pick to Phoenix, a division rival, when they can send him to Brooklyn?

I notice you left drafting out of your review of McD. Funny, since that is arguably the #1 thing you would want a GM to be good at, and also the #1 thing this team needs to have a promising future.

[thamadkant]

I'd gladly do Knight to NYC for Courtney Lee. Experienced, quality backup 3&D SG so we don't need to throw Reed right in the deep end. Plus, we can never have enough shooters.

Knight can start over Frank, could probably even chuck alongside him, given he's listed as 6'5.

I wouldn't give up a first to make it happen, but I would throw in a guy like DJJ (most non-Suns fans probably remember him solely from the dunk contest, as an electric young guy with potential) or take back a midrange salary guy to even it up.

Failing that, I would think about Allen Crabbe straight up from Portland. More money but you get what you pay for.

I rather throw Reed in the deep end since he is a 4 year college player who will adapt quickly.

Getting veterans ahead of youth is the major issue of under developing players. Hence why Booker became the way he is because Suns put him ahead of Knight in the rotation.


Only veterans I would want if it's an option is star veterans who will attract other star FAs in the future.

[bigfoot]

This is setting up to be the typical Suns off season. Touting the draft pick as an important piece of the future, while striking out with trades and free agency. Then a hard marketing sell on the wonders of developing youngsters in route to another 30 win season.

Who's on a treadmill now?


Exercise:
name McDo's top 3 FA acquisitions
Name his top 3 trades

Now add up the total talent infusion

Are you serious? Who do you actually think we should be targeting this offseason?

We are not treadmilling. We have been on a very consistent plan of rebuilding since the season after our surprise year. Not only that but we are so much better off when viewing this team's potential going forward than we have been in about a decade.

A sub-30 win season is also probably the best outcome to root for in terms of this team's future.

That's vomit worthy ... rooting for a sub-30 win season. So far our top "tanking" picks have netted us Len (failure), Bender (question mark), Chriss (bigger question mark), and Jackson (could be good). Warren, Booker, and Ullis are all better right now and could have been selected with 40+ win teams.

I hate drafting for "potential" in an 18/19 year old. I think it is time for McD to start to draft more 22-years olds who have established themselves as legitimate college players who can shoot 50% or better. Tired of getting players who have athleticism and potential and everyone saying if they could just improve their shooting. Well, if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.