The MeloPause Trade Thread

[seren]

I have been very critical of the Knicks management but they are doing the right thing to not rush a Melo trade.

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[dakomish23]

He didn't win a chip till Boston, but was most certainly a winner in Minny. They were a fixture in the playoffs with him and had a WCF run as well as I recall

Sounds like a certain Knicks player on our team.... hmmm

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

Unequivocally false

BOS traded a ton of prospects in the KG deal including an up and coming Al Jefferson at the time, who was far superior to any project we sent out.

Also, a player can't force his way off a team or make the team trading for him give up any less or more for him. That is up to the FO.

Nice try

[louieOrr]

Sounds like a certain Knicks player on our team.... hmmm

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

You mean like what CP3 just did? Sure, let's continue to blame the player for what a front office decided to do. Anyway, it still doesn't change the point, if KG was a winner in Minnesota then Carmelo was a winner in Denver. That was the analogy that you conveniently dodged.

No sir, I'm not dodging that. Carmelo did not do as much in Denver as KG did in Minny. I acknowledge Melo also had a WCF run, but you skip over the body of work. CP3 certainly did not wait it out with the Hornets. KG did it over a longer period of tim in Minny as well so lets not forget that. As another poster pointed out, Melo never won MVP

[Handledatruth]

Sounds like a certain Knicks player on our team.... hmmm

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

[louieOrr]

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

I hear you, I can agree that Melo was perceived as more of a winner while he was still in Denver

[dakomish23]

Sounds like a certain Knicks player on our team.... hmmm

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

He compared the accomplishments not the player.

[battabing10]

Basic ball stuff?

That guy plays in an unbelievable system with two of the best shooters ever who pull you out to 25 feet every play.

Have you never watched a Steph Dray PnR? Teams trap Curry because of the range and Dray has a wide open lane. A defender guarding his teammate near the rim steps up and his man gets a wide open alley oop.

Let's see him have that elite passing / playmaking when DRose is his PG & Lee is his SG.

Nobody is taking away from Dray. He's great. But you guys are assuming what happens in one situation will automatically translate to another. That's not how it works. Who you have on your roster and the system you run will have a huge effect on output.

Pretty basic basketball stuff

you ever hear the idea that most everybody in the nba get to the nba cause they can score the ball? all it takes is a chance to get off a *good* shot in there comfort zone. green gonna do this with anybody because his bbiq and court vision is elite. he elevates others that way and then theres his defense which you don't wanna factor in so are you kidding me?? melo only elevate himself and takes away from teammates. this is the heart of his mediocre career as a teammate. look at his numbers alone and you gonna think hes all that but you just kidding yourself.

I was addressing the offensive side of the ball because Draymond is amazing defensively and Melo is barely existent, if that. Thought that was obvious.

The GSW system had constant movement off the ball. We didn't.

The GSW roster has shooters that pull you all the way out to 25 feet and you can't leave them. We didn't.

The GSW roster had athletic guards and wings who can finish at the rim with a high %. We didn't.

Dray is able to maximize the situation he's in. That's takes a certain level of skill and I'm not taking that away from him. But fact is, you are ignoring the situation that he is in. You will see a different level of output and impact if you put him on this scrub Knicks team.

Why do you choose to ignore context?

hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?

[Handledatruth]

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

You mean like what CP3 just did? Sure, let's continue to blame the player for what a front office decided to do. Anyway, it still doesn't change the point, if KG was a winner in Minnesota then Carmelo was a winner in Denver. That was the analogy that you conveniently dodged.

No sir, I'm not dodging that. Carmelo did not do as much in Denver as KG did in Minny. I acknowledge Melo also had a WCF run, but you skip over the body of work. CP3 certainly did not wait it out with the Hornets. KG did it over a longer period of tim in Minny as well so lets not forget that. As another poster pointed out, Melo never won MVP

Goal post moves again. Now its not enough to be the best player on your team and carry them to the playoffs. You have to be the best offensive and defensive player on your team to do enough. I wonder what Steve Nash thinks about this? Dirk Nowitzki? Did you guys even watch the Nuggets with Melo or you just remember New York Melo?

[drekwins]

It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

Okay, but what many people fail at here is recognizing that Billups was as much responsible for that run as Melo. He averaged 20 and 7 of 66% TS%. He was killing it until Kobe guared him in the finals and started to limit his looks. Billups was the leader of those teams...not Melo.

[stuporman]

As a player Melo can't even pour a bowl KG's honey nut cheerios let alone taste them...

[Handledatruth]

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

I hear you, I can agree that Melo was perceived as more of a winner while he was still in Denver

Didn't see this one, I'll back off. btw I do understand people's problem with Melo's game. I get it. However, he still had some pretty dominant seasons in Denver and New York.

[louieOrr]

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

I hear you, I can agree that Melo was perceived as more of a winner while he was still in Denver

Didn't see this one, I'll back off. btw I do understand people's problem with Melo's game. I get it. However, he still had some pretty dominant seasons in Denver and New York.

no doubt about it. That first round loss to the Celts his first year here was one of the greatest performances I have ever seen honestly

[naijaboy]

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

Okay, but what many people fail at here is recognizing that Billups was as much responsible for that run as Melo. He averaged 20 and 7 of 66% TS%. He was killing it until Kobe guared him in the finals and started to limit his looks. Billups was the leader of those teams...not Melo.

so then you could say the same thing about KG when Cassell and Spree, helped in his run.
I didnt mention KG to get into this big debate but Draymonds game is very similar in terms of being able to do many things well and we are revising history KG leadership abilities where definitely in question during his time in Minny and same for Dirk, when you win people tend to forget the rest.

[Handledatruth]

Lol Melo is not even close to the level of player that KG was. KG was elite defensively and great offensively. He could score, rebound amazingly well, fantastic passer and could literally guard 1-5. For a large portion of his career, he was the most versatile, best defensive and best passing big in the league. Not to mention, he held teammates accountable and was a leader. That's a terrible comparison.

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

Okay, but what many people fail at here is recognizing that Billups was as much responsible for that run as Melo. He averaged 20 and 7 of 66% TS%. He was killing it until Kobe guared him in the finals and started to limit his looks. Billups was the leader of those teams...not Melo.

Love how you mention Billups getting Melo over the hump but leave out Sam Cassell AND Latrell Sprewell helping KG get out of the first round and into the Western Conference Finals. All players need help from other great players to win championships. Is KD's move not enough proof?

[Capn'O]

Woj on Le Batard just now:

Knicks didn't like trade offers that were there and Scott Perry doesn't want to rush a deal. Melo's preference is clearly Houston and he wants to see these negotiations through to the end. Tough seeing the Knicks convincing him to stay now, but there's a lot of time left to resolve the issue. Cleveland has been aggressive in trying to acquire Melo, but hasn't had enough to get a deal done. NY does not want back vets on big contracts, so CLE is in the same situation as Houston. They've tried very hard, but haven't had enough to get a deal done. CLE actually got close on Paul George, but couldn't get a deal done. Cavs offer for PG was Love/Shumpert - Love to DEN, other players from DEN to Indiana.

Knicks need to figure out what they can add to a CLE deal to see that CLE gets a little more back in a Love 3-way w/ Melo.

[Nazrmohamed]

you ever hear the idea that most everybody in the nba get to the nba cause they can score the ball? all it takes is a chance to get off a *good* shot in there comfort zone. green gonna do this with anybody because his bbiq and court vision is elite. he elevates others that way and then theres his defense which you don't wanna factor in so are you kidding me?? melo only elevate himself and takes away from teammates. this is the heart of his mediocre career as a teammate. look at his numbers alone and you gonna think hes all that but you just kidding yourself.

I was addressing the offensive side of the ball because Draymond is amazing defensively and Melo is barely existent, if that. Thought that was obvious.

The GSW system had constant movement off the ball. We didn't.

The GSW roster has shooters that pull you all the way out to 25 feet and you can't leave them. We didn't.

The GSW roster had athletic guards and wings who can finish at the rim with a high %. We didn't.

Dray is able to maximize the situation he's in. That's takes a certain level of skill and I'm not taking that away from him. But fact is, you are ignoring the situation that he is in. You will see a different level of output and impact if you put him on this scrub Knicks team.

Why do you choose to ignore context?

hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?

I love Green to death but he's the type of player who makes a good team a great team with mist of the stuff you described. That alone is very valuable, I hope I don't sound like Im minimizing it. But he's not gonna go to the Lakers or Knicks and make them good. They're too far gone and immature a franchise. Draymond is actually the type of guy where if Melo stayed you could probably add shoot 10-15 wins easily, but he's gotta be the glue for that star.....not the star himself.

More the Oakley than the Ewing. Put it this way. Hes got a role and so does Melo. Draymond is probably the best player at his role in the nba whereas Melo...... probably shouldn't be in his role going forward.

[drekwins]

You changing his criteria. Denver was a consistent playoff team with Melo and had one WCF run. Minnesota was a consistent playoff team with KG and had one WCF run. That was his definition of a winner. Wasn't about who is better. (KG is obviously a better center piece than Melo)

Okay, but what many people fail at here is recognizing that Billups was as much responsible for that run as Melo. He averaged 20 and 7 of 66% TS%. He was killing it until Kobe guared him in the finals and started to limit his looks. Billups was the leader of those teams...not Melo.

so then you could say the same thing about KG when Cassell and Spree, helped in his run.
I didnt mention KG to get into this big debate but Draymonds game is very similar in terms of being able to do many things well and we are revising history KG leadership abilities where definitely in question during his time in Minny and same for Dirk, when you win people tend to forget the rest.

No..KG was the leader of those teams. Spree and Cassell were shells of who they were in their primes. Billups was a champion that was still in his prime and had deep playoff runs every year prior to Denver.

People are so bad at remembering the intricate details. It amazes me. Saying that Cassell and Spree were equal to Billups then is like saying Deron William's is equal to Chris Paul now.

[Carl_Karlson]

What's the press conference about? Perry's formal introduction?

[battabing10]

Hell no to anything Cleavland offers and no to Houston unless they throw in picks or Qui and or Hartenstein. Perry and Mills have to sit down with Melo and tell him straight up "Hey you are much more valuable to us than what these teams are offering for you. We want what is best for you but we have to do what is best for the organization first. We won't close talks all together but until teams make serious offers you will be back next season"

if he is an adult and a pro he will see it that way and be a willing knick, and imho be a great sixth man while the future develops. people been saying he has been the only pro during all this nonsense but that was him assuming he was gonna get what he wanted, but now?? maybe he won't be a pro anyore maybe he will go the towelbury root..

[battabing10]

I was addressing the offensive side of the ball because Draymond is amazing defensively and Melo is barely existent, if that. Thought that was obvious.

The GSW system had constant movement off the ball. We didn't.

The GSW roster has shooters that pull you all the way out to 25 feet and you can't leave them. We didn't.

The GSW roster had athletic guards and wings who can finish at the rim with a high %. We didn't.

Dray is able to maximize the situation he's in. That's takes a certain level of skill and I'm not taking that away from him. But fact is, you are ignoring the situation that he is in. You will see a different level of output and impact if you put him on this scrub Knicks team.

Why do you choose to ignore context?

hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?

I love Green to death but he's the type of player who makes a good team a great team with mist of the stuff you described. That alone is very valuable, I hope I don't sound like Im minimizing it. But he's not gonna go to the Lakers or Knicks and make them good. They're too far gone and immature a franchise. Draymond is actually the type of guy where if Melo stayed you could probably add shoot 10-15 wins easily, but he's gotta be the glue for that star.....not the star himself.

More the Oakley than the Ewing. Put it this way. Hes got a role and so does Melo. Draymond is probably the best player at his role in the nba whereas Melo...... probably shouldn't be in his role going forward.

i agree with that scenario but the scenario i describe is swapping out melo for green. i only imply he gonna improve that team by six wins, not make them a *good* team. so he will make them better is all i am saying, and that is a start.