Moderators: dakomish23, Capn'O, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule, GONYK, mpharris36, HerSports85, Jeff Van Gully
Carl_Karlson wrote:What's the press conference about? Perry's formal introduction?
So as Scott Perry is introduced this afternoon at the Madison Square Garden Training facility as the new general manager, the 53-year-old will get a first-hand look at exactly what he’s gotten himself into.
Carl_Karlson wrote:What's the press conference about? Perry's formal introduction?
drekwins wrote:naijaboy wrote:drekwins wrote:
Okay, but what many people fail at here is recognizing that Billups was as much responsible for that run as Melo. He averaged 20 and 7 of 66% TS%. He was killing it until Kobe guared him in the finals and started to limit his looks. Billups was the leader of those teams...not Melo.
so then you could say the same thing about KG when Cassell and Spree, helped in his run.
I didnt mention KG to get into this big debate but Draymonds game is very similar in terms of being able to do many things well and we are revising history KG leadership abilities where definitely in question during his time in Minny and same for Dirk, when you win people tend to forget the rest.
No..KG was the leader of those teams. Spree and Cassell were shells of who they were in their primes. Billups was a champion that was still in his prime and had deep playoff runs every year prior to Denver.
People are so bad at remembering the intricate details. It amazes me. Saying that Cassell and Spree were equal to Billups then is like saying Deron William's is equal to Chris Paul now.
Capn'O wrote:SelbyCobra wrote:Woj on Le Batard just now:
Knicks didn't like trade offers that were there and Scott Perry doesn't want to rush a deal. Melo's preference is clearly Houston and he wants to see these negotiations through to the end. Tough seeing the Knicks convincing him to stay now, but there's a lot of time left to resolve the issue. Cleveland has been aggressive in trying to acquire Melo, but hasn't had enough to get a deal done. NY does not want back vets on big contracts, so CLE is in the same situation as Houston. They've tried very hard, but haven't had enough to get a deal done. CLE actually got close on Paul George, but couldn't get a deal done. Cavs offer for PG was Love/Shumpert - Love to DEN, other players from DEN to Indiana.
Knicks need to figure out what they can add to a CLE deal to see that CLE gets a little more back in a Love 3-way w/ Melo.
?
stuporman wrote:Capn'O wrote:SelbyCobra wrote:Woj on Le Batard just now:
Knicks didn't like trade offers that were there and Scott Perry doesn't want to rush a deal. Melo's preference is clearly Houston and he wants to see these negotiations through to the end. Tough seeing the Knicks convincing him to stay now, but there's a lot of time left to resolve the issue. Cleveland has been aggressive in trying to acquire Melo, but hasn't had enough to get a deal done. NY does not want back vets on big contracts, so CLE is in the same situation as Houston. They've tried very hard, but haven't had enough to get a deal done. CLE actually got close on Paul George, but couldn't get a deal done. Cavs offer for PG was Love/Shumpert - Love to DEN, other players from DEN to Indiana.
Knicks need to figure out what they can add to a CLE deal to see that CLE gets a little more back in a Love 3-way w/ Melo.
I just don't want to see the Knicks be the bottom in some three way Love....
I knew you'd be there to return the lob.
battabing10 wrote:dakomish23 wrote:battabing10 wrote:
you ever hear the idea that most everybody in the nba get to the nba cause they can score the ball? all it takes is a chance to get off a *good* shot in there comfort zone. green gonna do this with anybody because his bbiq and court vision is elite. he elevates others that way and then theres his defense which you don't wanna factor in so are you kidding me?? melo only elevate himself and takes away from teammates. this is the heart of his mediocre career as a teammate. look at his numbers alone and you gonna think hes all that but you just kidding yourself.
I was addressing the offensive side of the ball because Draymond is amazing defensively and Melo is barely existent, if that. Thought that was obvious.
The GSW system had constant movement off the ball. We didn't.
The GSW roster has shooters that pull you all the way out to 25 feet and you can't leave them. We didn't.
The GSW roster had athletic guards and wings who can finish at the rim with a high %. We didn't.
Dray is able to maximize the situation he's in. That's takes a certain level of skill and I'm not taking that away from him. But fact is, you are ignoring the situation that he is in. You will see a different level of output and impact if you put him on this scrub Knicks team.
Why do you choose to ignore context?
hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor
battabing10 wrote:Nazrmohamed wrote:battabing10 wrote:
hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?
I love Green to death but he's the type of player who makes a good team a great team with mist of the stuff you described. That alone is very valuable, I hope I don't sound like Im minimizing it. But he's not gonna go to the Lakers or Knicks and make them good. They're too far gone and immature a franchise. Draymond is actually the type of guy where if Melo stayed you could probably add shoot 10-15 wins easily, but he's gotta be the glue for that star.....not the star himself.
More the Oakley than the Ewing. Put it this way. Hes got a role and so does Melo. Draymond is probably the best player at his role in the nba whereas Melo...... probably shouldn't be in his role going forward.
i agree with that scenario but the scenario i describe is swapping out melo for green. i only imply he gonna improve that team by six wins, not make them a *good* team. so he will make them better is all i am saying, and that is a start.
dakomish23 wrote:battabing10 wrote:dakomish23 wrote:
I was addressing the offensive side of the ball because Draymond is amazing defensively and Melo is barely existent, if that. Thought that was obvious.
The GSW system had constant movement off the ball. We didn't.
The GSW roster has shooters that pull you all the way out to 25 feet and you can't leave them. We didn't.
The GSW roster had athletic guards and wings who can finish at the rim with a high %. We didn't.
Dray is able to maximize the situation he's in. That's takes a certain level of skill and I'm not taking that away from him. But fact is, you are ignoring the situation that he is in. You will see a different level of output and impact if you put him on this scrub Knicks team.
Why do you choose to ignore context?
hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?
Do you know what context means?the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
The context is Green playing in GSW with Curry and Klay in that system.
His offensive contributions would not be as potent if you take him out of that system.
I'm not saying prime Melo is a better fit for that team or ignoring what Dray does defensively. This is strictly about an in a vacuum comparison of Dray and Melo offensively.
In a vacuum, who is better offensively? Dray or prime Melo?
battabing10 wrote:Polk377 wrote:Hell no to anything Cleavland offers and no to Houston unless they throw in picks or Qui and or Hartenstein. Perry and Mills have to sit down with Melo and tell him straight up "Hey you are much more valuable to us than what these teams are offering for you. We want what is best for you but we have to do what is best for the organization first. We won't close talks all together but until teams make serious offers you will be back next season"
if he is an adult and a pro he will see it that way and be a willing knick, and imho be a great sixth man while the future develops. people been saying he has been the only pro during all this nonsense but that was him assuming he was gonna get what he wanted, but now?? maybe he won't be a pro anyore maybe he will go the towelbury root..
Polk377 wrote:battabing10 wrote:Polk377 wrote:Hell no to anything Cleavland offers and no to Houston unless they throw in picks or Qui and or Hartenstein. Perry and Mills have to sit down with Melo and tell him straight up "Hey you are much more valuable to us than what these teams are offering for you. We want what is best for you but we have to do what is best for the organization first. We won't close talks all together but until teams make serious offers you will be back next season"
if he is an adult and a pro he will see it that way and be a willing knick, and imho be a great sixth man while the future develops. people been saying he has been the only pro during all this nonsense but that was him assuming he was gonna get what he wanted, but now?? maybe he won't be a pro anyore maybe he will go the towelbury root..
I think if he comes back the best spot for him is starting at PF next to KP. Ntilikina-Hardaway-Lee-Melo-KP would be my starting 5 with Willy, Baker, KOQ, Noah, LT and Kuz as my bench. If Hornacek wants to play uptempo that is the best lineup to go with.
Handledatruth wrote:drekwins wrote:naijaboy wrote:
so then you could say the same thing about KG when Cassell and Spree, helped in his run.
I didnt mention KG to get into this big debate but Draymonds game is very similar in terms of being able to do many things well and we are revising history KG leadership abilities where definitely in question during his time in Minny and same for Dirk, when you win people tend to forget the rest.
No..KG was the leader of those teams. Spree and Cassell were shells of who they were in their primes. Billups was a champion that was still in his prime and had deep playoff runs every year prior to Denver.
People are so bad at remembering the intricate details. It amazes me. Saying that Cassell and Spree were equal to Billups then is like saying Deron William's is equal to Chris Paul now.
Yes, the experience and leadership that Spree and Cassell brought to the Wolves was equivalent to what Cassell brought to Denver. This explains why KG didn't leave the first round without them. You act as if Cassell and Sprewell did not have their own deep runs in the playoffs prior to joining the Wolves.Now if your argument is that Cassell was the best player in Denver at the time, then I don't know what to say
BKlutch wrote:Polk377 wrote:battabing10 wrote:
if he is an adult and a pro he will see it that way and be a willing knick, and imho be a great sixth man while the future develops. people been saying he has been the only pro during all this nonsense but that was him assuming he was gonna get what he wanted, but now?? maybe he won't be a pro anyore maybe he will go the towelbury root..
I think if he comes back the best spot for him is starting at PF next to KP. Ntilikina-Hardaway-Lee-Melo-KP would be my starting 5 with Willy, Baker, KOQ, Noah, LT and Kuz as my bench. If Hornacek wants to play uptempo that is the best lineup to go with.
IF he comes back, this may just be the best lineup. Do you think the surgery helped Noah enough that he could contribute off the bench? I haven't heard anything about him all summer (and I know he's keeping a low profile so people don't get angry at him).
Polk377 wrote:BKlutch wrote:Polk377 wrote:
I think if he comes back the best spot for him is starting at PF next to KP. Ntilikina-Hardaway-Lee-Melo-KP would be my starting 5 with Willy, Baker, KOQ, Noah, LT and Kuz as my bench. If Hornacek wants to play uptempo that is the best lineup to go with.
IF he comes back, this may just be the best lineup. Do you think the surgery helped Noah enough that he could contribute off the bench? I haven't heard anything about him all summer (and I know he's keeping a low profile so people don't get angry at him).
No one knows about Noah at this point. I would like to think he can still contribute on the defensive end and on the glass but who knows. At this point I would assume that he is the 3rd big off the bench behind Willy and KOQ if they were to go with this lineup.
drekwins wrote:Handledatruth wrote:drekwins wrote:
No..KG was the leader of those teams. Spree and Cassell were shells of who they were in their primes. Billups was a champion that was still in his prime and had deep playoff runs every year prior to Denver.
People are so bad at remembering the intricate details. It amazes me. Saying that Cassell and Spree were equal to Billups then is like saying Deron William's is equal to Chris Paul now.
Yes, the experience and leadership that Spree and Cassell brought to the Wolves was equivalent to what Cassell brought to Denver. This explains why KG didn't leave the first round without them. You act as if Cassell and Sprewell did not have their own deep runs in the playoffs prior to joining the Wolves.Now if your argument is that Cassell was the best player in Denver at the time, then I don't know what to say
Billups was really really good.. in fact, he was 3rd team All NBA that year. Guess who else was also on the 3rd team that year... You got that right, Melo. Melo didn't even make the All-NBA team the year before without Billups. People here think Melo is something that he's not. It's mind boggling.
VirginiaKnickFan wrote:Carl_Karlson wrote:What's the press conference about? Perry's formal introduction?So as Scott Perry is introduced this afternoon at the Madison Square Garden Training facility as the new general manager, the 53-year-old will get a first-hand look at exactly what he’s gotten himself into.
dakomish23 wrote:louieOrr wrote:Handledatruth wrote:
Sounds like a certain Knicks player on our team.... hmmm
It does. One waited it out and was gifted to the Celts. The other forced a trade that gutted the team of assets. Thus the different trajectory
Unequivocally false
BOS traded a ton of prospects in the KG deal including an up and coming Al Jefferson at the time, who was far superior to any project we sent out.
Also, a player can't force his way off a team or make the team trading for him give up any less or more for him. That is up to the FO.
Nice try
BKlutch wrote:Polk377 wrote:BKlutch wrote:IF he comes back, this may just be the best lineup. Do you think the surgery helped Noah enough that he could contribute off the bench? I haven't heard anything about him all summer (and I know he's keeping a low profile so people don't get angry at him).
No one knows about Noah at this point. I would like to think he can still contribute on the defensive end and on the glass but who knows. At this point I would assume that he is the 3rd big off the bench behind Willy and KOQ if they were to go with this lineup.
Sad story if he can't play 3rd big.
drekwins wrote:Handledatruth wrote:drekwins wrote:
No..KG was the leader of those teams. Spree and Cassell were shells of who they were in their primes. Billups was a champion that was still in his prime and had deep playoff runs every year prior to Denver.
People are so bad at remembering the intricate details. It amazes me. Saying that Cassell and Spree were equal to Billups then is like saying Deron William's is equal to Chris Paul now.
Yes, the experience and leadership that Spree and Cassell brought to the Wolves was equivalent to what Cassell brought to Denver. This explains why KG didn't leave the first round without them. You act as if Cassell and Sprewell did not have their own deep runs in the playoffs prior to joining the Wolves.Now if your argument is that Cassell was the best player in Denver at the time, then I don't know what to say
Billups was really really good.. in fact, he was 3rd team All NBA that year. Guess who else was also on the 3rd team that year... You got that right, Melo. Melo didn't even make the All-NBA team the year before without Billups. People here think Melo is something that he's not. It's mind boggling.
didn't melo make 3rd team twice before billups arrived? Handledatruth wrote:drekwins wrote:Handledatruth wrote:Yes, the experience and leadership that Spree and Cassell brought to the Wolves was equivalent to what Cassell brought to Denver. This explains why KG didn't leave the first round without them. You act as if Cassell and Sprewell did not have their own deep runs in the playoffs prior to joining the Wolves.Now if your argument is that Cassell was the best player in Denver at the time, then I don't know what to say
Billups was really really good.. in fact, he was 3rd team All NBA that year. Guess who else was also on the 3rd team that year... You got that right, Melo. Melo didn't even make the All-NBA team the year before without Billups. People here think Melo is something that he's not. It's mind boggling.
Except that he did make the third All-NBA team the year before. Him, Iverson(who was his teammate), Gilbert Arenas, Yao Ming, and *gasp* Kevin Garnett. Check your facts man.
dakomish23 wrote:battabing10 wrote:dakomish23 wrote:
I was addressing the offensive side of the ball because Draymond is amazing defensively and Melo is barely existent, if that. Thought that was obvious.
The GSW system had constant movement off the ball. We didn't.
The GSW roster has shooters that pull you all the way out to 25 feet and you can't leave them. We didn't.
The GSW roster had athletic guards and wings who can finish at the rim with a high %. We didn't.
Dray is able to maximize the situation he's in. That's takes a certain level of skill and I'm not taking that away from him. But fact is, you are ignoring the situation that he is in. You will see a different level of output and impact if you put him on this scrub Knicks team.
Why do you choose to ignore context?
hold up a sec you tell me i am ignoring context but you don't wanna factor in his all-nba defense compared with melo's non-existent d?
i say that with green's defense alone the knicks gonna win 6 more games. how many games you think the knicks win if you swap melo for green?
Do you know what context means?the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
The context is Green playing in GSW with Curry and Klay in that system.
His offensive contributions would not be as potent if you take him out of that system.
I'm not saying prime Melo is a better fit for that team or ignoring what Dray does defensively. This is strictly about an in a vacuum comparison of Dray and Melo offensively.
In a vacuum, who is better offensively? Dray or prime Melo?
