Prospects and trade discussion

Ranma · Post #661 » by **Ranma** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:18 pm

Quake Griffin · Post #662 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:30 pm

MANNY AND ZACH BRITTON!!!!!11

Just take my money now!
Put Cody in Left.
Let JT cover first.
Make Taylor and Forsythe fight to the death for 2B.

Talk to everybody later.

Ranma · Post #663 » by **Ranma** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:57 pm

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Ranma · Post #664 » by **Ranma** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:09 pm

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Ranma · Post #665 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:52 am

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Neddy · Post #666 » by **Neddy** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:04 am

Ranma wrote:

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I sorta hate seeing this all over the place. I mean, JD is purely a rental. we will probably have to give up at least Puig and possibly a decent prospect to get this deal done and I feel like cheap, controllable contracts like Puig who is actually doing well, seems like a huge price to pay in the long run for a minuscule short term gain.

on the other hand, we are all in to win it all this year, and can't argue with JD Martinez's .300/.380/.650 slash line at all... he will lengthen the line up with power as he will most likely hit behind Cody. going

Forsythe - Seager - Turner - Cody - JD - Taylor - Joc - Grandal as of R-L-R-L-R-L-L-S would be devastating. if so, I hope we don't put Joc in the 8 hole. he will take a ton of walks but he will never see a decent fastball in the middle of the plate. I wouldn't even mind moving Taylor into the 9th hole and move the pitcher into the 8th hole. this will give us another lead off in middle innings.

Neddy · Post #667 » by **Neddy** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:13 am

Quake Griffin wrote:MANNY AND ZACH BRITTON!!!!!11

Just take my money now!
Put Cody in Left.
Let JT cover first.
Make Taylor and Forsythe fight to the death for 2B.

Talk to everybody later.

to get Manny, the O's will ask either Corey or Cody... possibly both just as a starting bargaining point.

how about deGrom? I am willing to give the Mets Alvarez and Calhoun for deGrom.

Ranma · Post #668 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:21 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Fangraphs has him as having "respectable" speed with their current "50" on an 20-80 scale.

Kid has 8 SBs and 1 CS.

At some point the fact that he can hang in CF and can steal bases cant just be solely attributed to his instincts (which he has btw).

Hes not a burner but he has solid wheels for an OF. I expect 1st to 3rds on singles. 1st to homes on doubles.

If that's average, fine. A team is getting average speed with good instincts to the tune of solid OF defense and the ability to swipe bags.

Neddy wrote:but any who, Joc used to run up 30 SBs in the minors every season, but that didn't translate to the bigs. I doubt Verdugo can do better. Alex has a much better instinct and possibly the fundamentals. he is, in my eyes, is much more of a center fielder(if he can stick as one) in the mold of devon white than Ken Griffey Jr or Brett Butler.

I agree with Neddy's comparisons to Joc Pederson in terms of Verdugo's speed; he's helped more by instincts than by his actual legs on the outfield on defense. I don't even think he's as fast as Joc and our current center fielder is not exactly a speed demon on the base paths either.

In any case, it's obvious Quake is higher on Verdugo than I am, but I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to him making the Dodgers if we're dealing Puig away and getting another right-handed power bat in return in left field. I've made mention of my concern over Verdugo's attitude but it isn't a deal-breaker. Still, Verdugo would make more sense if the Dodgers did trade Yasiel Puig for Ryan Braun, which is doubly repulsive to me.

GM Farhan Zaidi has come out recently and said something along the lines of Verdugo being close to ready for the Show and it'd be hard to envision a scenario that we'd be dealing him. However, he said similar things just before Dee Gordon was traded. Personally, I like that Zaidi is trying to build up his value in order to maximize his return. Like I've said before that while I view him as more trade bait than long-term fixture, I don't want to dump Verdugo, which I actually meant to say that I don't want to get less in trade than his worth.

Verdugo is a valuable prospect right now, but like Jose De Leon before him, he's approaching a point of diminishing value. I think he's at peak value right now, which is another reason why I want him dealt. AV is a fine prospect in his own right, but he's not someone I would clear a roster spot for unlike Seager, Bellinger, or even Pederson during their respective circumstances.

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Ranma · Post #669 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:37 am

Quake Griffin wrote:Walker Buehler to AAA!

Neddy wrote:I am not sure if it is for the best to move him to the pen, but there surely is a ton of talk about Walker going to the bullpen come september.

I understand Neddy's concern over Buehler given is recovery from TJS, but I look forward to him and Font being options for us down the stretch late in the season and into the postseason. Despite what happened with Julio Urias, I'm going to have faith in the medical and training staff that Buehler will be healthy enough and up to the task should they call upon him.

Ranma · Post #670 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:44 am

Neddy wrote:come 2018, even if we let Kershaw go, we would still have

Wood-Hill-McCarthy-Maeda-Ryu-Urias-Stewart-Striping-Oaks.

of course I want Clayton back, but I also want Otani. if we can't have both, I would rather go for the younger of the two.

If we were to lose Kershaw for whatever reason, I wouldn't be comfortable with Alex Wood fronting our rotation as the lead ace despite his excellent season. I've previously proposed Shohei Otani being our ace by eventually taking over for Clayton Kershaw, but that would be years down the road. In both Otani and Wood's case, neither have yet to establish themselves in the role of an MLB ace.

Should the unfathomable happen, I would make it the top priority to acquire a legitimate ace, but it would be a setback to our current progression as a baseball powerhouse. Also, I would not accept an either-or proposition from this organization if we had to choose between Kershaw and Otani. We have to do everything in our power to have both. It's one thing not to be able to convince Otani not to sign with us, but it's entirely different for the Dodgers to choose one over the other.

Ranma · Post #671 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:50 am

Quake Griffin · Post #672 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:58 am

My argument accounted for everyone crediting Verdugo with "instincts."

His speed is underrated. IMO, it is because people think his body won't project. You can't hang in CF being average. You can't steal bags being average. His speed is above average.

I never said he was Billy Hamilton.
I see him as a Joc type. And that's just fine for an OF you are developing.

Checking the boxes for OF.
Youd say, "yeah. Hes fast enough"

Never said he was a burner.

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Ranma · Post #673 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:04 am

Neddy wrote:with Zach Britton still dealing with his arm injury tho, Alex Verdugo seems like a very steep price to pay, even in a packaged deal. there is no guarantee that Britton can even make 1 good playoff appearance while under a contract with us. he will hit the free agency in 2019, and if this "forearm strain" turns out to be a prolonged attempt at rehabbing his elbow, he could still end up needing a surgery as soon as the trade is made. flexor mass muscle strain in the forearm is usually an early sign of needing TJS.

Quake Griffin wrote:MANNY AND ZACH BRITTON!!!!!11

Just take my money now!
Put Cody in Left.
Let JT cover first.
Make Taylor and Forsythe fight to the death for 2B.

Talk to everybody later.

I concur with Neddy that Verdugo would be too much to pay for Britton, especially given his salary and injury concerns. I don't like rolling the dice on him with troubling signals of a forearm strain. While his Britton's salary is not unreasonable,
if he were to have Tommy John surgery, we'd lose him for a year or two and would have to negotiate re-signing him to a new contract just when he'd be healthy to pitch again. That's not something I would welcome, which is why Hand has been my primary target for the role of LHP out of the bullpen.

While the Orioles are certainly open for business, they've made Manny Machado off-limits along with Adam Jones and apparently Mychal Givens according to MLBTradeRumors.com. You guys know I would love to have Machado on the Dodgers, but it's not going to happen this season. If Friedman, Zaidi, Anthopoulos, and the rest of the braintrust could make this happen, I would be open to paying the premium price to acquire him, though I'd prefer to wait until he'd hit the open market in free agency.

Ranma · Post #674 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:09 am

Quake Griffin wrote:My argument accounted for everyone crediting Verdugo with "instincts."

His speed is underrated. IMO, it is because people think his body won't project. You can't hang in CF being average. You can't steal bags being average. His speed is above average.

I never said he was Billy Hamilton.
I see him as a Joc type. And that's just fine for an OF you are developing.

Checking the boxes for OF.
Youd say, "yeah. Hes fast enough"

Never said he was a burner.

I think Neddy and I realize that, but speaking for myself, his lack of impressive speed plays into why I don't personally value him that much as a prospect. Sure, he can hit with a good eye at the plate, but he doesn't really offer anything more than what we already have in Joc Pederson despite their different profiles as a high-average hitter and power bat, respectively. This is why I view him as a trade asset albeit a valuable one.

Ranma · Post #675 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:17 am

Neddy wrote:I sorta hate seeing this all over the place. I mean, JD is purely a rental. we will probably have to give up at least Puig and possibly a decent prospect to get this deal done and I feel like cheap, controllable contracts like Puig who is actually doing well, seems like a huge price to pay in the long run for a minuscule short term gain.

on the other hand, we are all in to win it all this year, and can't argue with JD Martinez's .300/.380/.650 slash line at all... he will lengthen the line up with power as he will most likely hit behind Cody. going

Forsythe - Seager - Turner - Cody - JD - Taylor - Joc - Grandal as of R-L-R-L-R-L-L-S would be devastating. if so, I hope we don't put Joc in the 8 hole. he will take a ton of walks but he will never see a decent fastball in the middle of the plate. I wouldn't even mind moving Taylor into the 9th hole and move the pitcher into the 8th hole. this will give us another lead off in middle innings.

I agree. I don't see why J.D. Martinez is a priority unless it's a smokescreen by Friedman & Co., which is not a stretch given their preference for working behind the scenes and penchant for keeping things close to the vest. Still, I'd like to hear more talk of us being involved in trade discussions for Sonny Gray and Brad Hand over Martinez. I'd rather not give up assets for a rental player, who I don't think we even need.

Neddy · Post #676 » by **Neddy** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:07 am

Ranma wrote:
Quake Griffin wrote:My argument accounted for everyone crediting Verdugo with "instincts."

His speed is underrated. IMO, it is because people think his body won't project. You can't hang in CF being average. You can't steal bags being average. His speed is above average.

I never said he was Billy Hamilton.
I see him as a Joc type. And that's just fine for an OF you are developing.

Checking the boxes for OF.
Youd say, "yeah. Hes fast enough"

Never said he was a burner.

I think Neddy and I realize that, but speaking for myself, his lack of impressive speed plays into why I don't personally value him that much as a prospect. Sure, he can hit with a good eye at the plate, but he doesn't really offer anything more than what we already have in Joc Pederson despite their different profiles as a high-average hitter and power bat, respectively. This is why I view him as a trade asset albeit a valuable one.

I would prefer a guy who is less likely to suffer from slump if all things equal and we all know Joc is the definition of a guy who is prone for multiple slumps in a single season, but I still think Joc is the better defensive center fielder. may not be by that much, as I am starting to think **** or Taylor can play the center just as well, but still Joc has a slight edge on the field.

having said that, with Joc's offensive issues of being limited to a platoon player at this point, I wouldn't be surprised that it is Joc who is on the trading block and Alex is being groomed as a replacement outfielder, whether he sticks with center or not. in the minors at least, Alex is showing he can hit the lefties.

BTW BaseballAmerica had Alex's speed rated at 45... just saying.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2017-top-100-prospects/#0ZT2GYQej0DgDEWW.97

Ranma · Post #677 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:09 pm

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Ranma · Post #678 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:48 pm

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Ranma · Post #679 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:29 pm

I guess we should be used by now to teams always asking more from the Dodgers because we have more. I wasn't in favor of pursuing J.D. Martinez but I wouldn't have been opposed to acquiring him as a rental to help in our stretch run and into the postseason if the cost was Rios, Estevez, and Jackson. Although, I'd rather have Rios included in a package for another deal, to be honest. To me, Estevez has the highest likelihood of being the best player from that bunch and he's actually showing some good progress of late.

It's also funny how the Tigers keep asking for high prices for rentals and expensive older players only to have to settle for something unimpressive in order to make a deal. Timing and reasonable expectations matter.

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Ranma · Post #680 » by **Ranma** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:35 pm

While the Dodgers are not as top-heavy as the White Sox with regard to their respective developmental pipelines, the same principle applies with regard to their ranked prospects generally having more value than other team's correspondingly ranked prospects. You just know the D-backs Tigers were asking more from the Dodgers even if you discount their interdivisional rivalry.

I'm just glad we're in a position not to have to overpay or do anything, for that matter, yet armed with enough desirable prospects to make a deal should an appealing proposition comes across our table.

In any case, it looks like the inevitable trade of Todd Frazier to Boston is about to happen.

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