Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[King4Day]

Anyone know what's going on with Noel? Surprised he hasn't been signed yet. Guessing the Mavs are stuck on a number and Noel's agent wants a ton more.

[bwgood77]

Anyone know what's going on with Noel? Surprised he hasn't been signed yet. Guessing the Mavs are stuck on a number and Noel's agent wants a ton more.

All of these RFA negotiations where there was no offer because teams assumed the other would match, will probably drag out. I wonder the same idea about Len. It doesn't make a ton of sense to let him pay on the QO unless that is what he wants because if, by chance, he plays really well and is worth keeping, he walks. It seems they'd try to get him for 2-3 years on a cheap contract, with team option in last year, so we don't lose him if he plays well, or is likely tradeable for something.

But at this point, it's likely left to Len. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us to want him to play on the QO, because it would be better to rescind it, but I guess we could trade him, though a team wouldn't give up much for him for a half year or whatever, so it seems kind of pointless, because if he plays well, he will likely get more money in the offseason and is sure to leave. Of course I'm sure many want that regardless of play.

[bwgood77]

Anyone like Terrance Ferguson? Here is an offer where we shed some vets and end up with him as the best asset coming back. I don't think I'd do it since I don't mind Chandler or Dudley on the team, but wondered what others would think.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1596953

[jcsunsfan]

Anyone know what's going on with Noel? Surprised he hasn't been signed yet. Guessing the Mavs are stuck on a number and Noel's agent wants a ton more.

All of these RFA negotiations where there was no offer because teams assumed the other would match, will probably drag out. I wonder the same idea about Len. It doesn't make a ton of sense to let him pay on the QO unless that is what he wants because if, by chance, he plays really well and is worth keeping, he walks. It seems they'd try to get him for 2-3 years on a cheap contract, with team option in last year, so we don't lose him if he plays well, or is likely tradeable for something.

But at this point, it's likely left to Len. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us to want him to play on the QO, because it would be better to rescind it, but I guess we could trade him, though a team wouldn't give up much for him for a half year or whatever, so it seems kind of pointless, because if he plays well, he will likely get more money in the offseason and is sure to leave. Of course I'm sure many want that regardless of play.

I doubt he will come on the qualifying offer. My guess is that if we keep him, it will be on a deal similar to Sauce--which is good for us. Keeps the powder dry for later.

[LukasBMW]

I want nothing to do with Boogie. That ship better have sailed. He's a loser.

[WeekapaugGroove]

In all seriousness their best shot is booker and one of the other youngins getting really good and recruiting someone in a couple years to put them over the top.

Yep. That's why we should all be hoping Booker gets chosen for the Olympic / Worlds squad sooner rather than later. These teams seem to be where they all form close bonds and decide to eventually play together.

WHAT ? are you guys actually suggesting we acquire talent in the free agent or trade market ????

I've never been against acquiring real talent in any way possible. What I'm against is signing pointless mediocre talent (example Taj Gibson) just for the sake of winning a couple of extra games or acquiring older players (example Milsap) with zero shot of being good/on the team when this team can actually compete, or using assets to acquire a good talent (George) who can and probably will leave for nothing in a year. Now if they could have got a real game changer like Bron, Durant, or Griffin signed that would have been great but lots of other teams want those guys too. I'm honestly kind of on the fence with Boogie; he absolutely fits the bill of the kind of player I would love to sign in FA but man is that dude a turd and it's hard to ignore his horrid attitude. As of now I lean towards being OK with signing him but it would be a little scary.

As far as team building philosophy there's no secret formula that is fail safe. But I do feel the draft is the most controllable model because it's a crap shoot being able to sign FA's while as long as you don't trade your pick you know you are getting that draft pick. The key is to take the right guys.

[suns91fan]

Fun fact: Devin Booker and Demarcus Cousins have the exact same career TS% at 0.533.

[sunsbg]

Yep. That's why we should all be hoping Booker gets chosen for the Olympic / Worlds squad sooner rather than later. These teams seem to be where they all form close bonds and decide to eventually play together.

WHAT ? are you guys actually suggesting we acquire talent in the free agent or trade market ????

I've never been against acquiring real talent in any way possible. What I'm against is signing pointless mediocre talent (example Taj Gibson) just for the sake of winning a couple of extra games or acquiring older players (example Milsap) with zero shot of being good/on the team when this team can actually compete, or using assets to acquire a good talent (George) who can and probably will leave for nothing in a year. Now if they could have got a real game changer like Bron, Durant, or Griffin signed that would have been great but lots of other teams want those guys too. I'm honestly kind of on the fence with Boogie; he absolutely fits the bill of the kind of player I would love to sign in FA but man is that dude a turd and it's hard to ignore his horrid attitude. As of now I lean towards being OK with signing him but it would be a little scary.

As far as team building philosophy there's no secret formula that is fail safe. But I do feel the draft is the most controllable model because it's a crap shoot being able to sign FA's while as long as you don't trade your pick you know you are getting that draft pick. The key is to take the right guys.

Agree with everything. Just checking the last 25 champions since I'm following NBA you can see that the 1st or 2nd best player on the team was drafted by that team. No team has won it all in this period by being bad and overpaying for a middle-tier star.

[n4th4n4]

I am tired of losing too. No more tanking. It should be about winning games and trying to get better. You have the core in place, you have to start getting them thinking right and playing right

Here's my solution: keep tanking until we get as many All-Stars as Golden State. Four sounds about right.

You want to be Portland? Charlotte? Indiana? I don't. I want to win a championship in Phoenix. Believe that. We're on our way to doing it, but we have to be patient with the guys we have.

I believe Booker, Jackson and Warren can be All-Stars. I believe Chriss and Bender can be, too, but I'm thinking we're going to need more time to make that determination.

PATIENCE. That's how Golden State did it, that's how the Spurs did it. You can add a free agent or two, but only when you have the right mix in place already (Kobe/Shaq, '04 Pistons).

(Minnesota's a 45 win team. Watch; you'll see.)

Golden States drafted Klay, Curry, traded Monta for Bogut, gave up two picks to get cap space for Iggy, drafted Barnes and I think Green, than filled in around that with role players; got Durant.

so, it truly was a combination of drafting, free agency, trades, good identification of role players. I actually think Mark Jackson helped building a culture that Kerr took over

So, I don't think the Suns need to tank - they should try to win with the group they have. But understand, they probably will not make play-offs - which is okay. But enough tanking - teams need to learn how to win.

It is stupid, impatient, and short sighted to try and be anything but at the bottom of the west this year. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to get us to shortcut our way to mediocrity which will just result in another decade of frustration. And to be clear, this Suns team has only been "tanking" for one year.

[TOO]

Some people enjoy the scenic route, some people enjoy treadmills. Sign me up for the 1st one.

[sunsbg]

Here's my solution: keep tanking until we get as many All-Stars as Golden State. Four sounds about right.

You want to be Portland? Charlotte? Indiana? I don't. I want to win a championship in Phoenix. Believe that. We're on our way to doing it, but we have to be patient with the guys we have.

I believe Booker, Jackson and Warren can be All-Stars. I believe Chriss and Bender can be, too, but I'm thinking we're going to need more time to make that determination.

PATIENCE. That's how Golden State did it, that's how the Spurs did it. You can add a free agent or two, but only when you have the right mix in place already (Kobe/Shaq, '04 Pistons).

(Minnesota's a 45 win team. Watch; you'll see.)

Golden States drafted Klay, Curry, traded Monta for Bogut, gave up two picks to get cap space for Iggy, drafted Barnes and I think Green, than filled in around that with role players; got Durant.

so, it truly was a combination of drafting, free agency, trades, good identification of role players. I actually think Mark Jackson helped building a culture that Kerr took over

So, I don't think the Suns need to tank - they should try to win with the group they have. But understand, they probably will not make play-offs - which is okay. But enough tanking - teams need to learn how to win.

It is stupid, impatient, and short sighted to try and be anything but at the bottom of the west this year. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to get us to shortcut our way to mediocrity which will just result in another decade of frustration. And to be clear, this Suns team has only been "tanking" for one year.

I'm for rebuilding thru the draft, but you are making it sound like the team should play Mike James 48 mins just to be sure we end at the bottom. This is probably what irritates the anti-tanking fans and I can understand them.

There is a good chance the Suns end in the 7-10 range. Then you have the Miami pick/other assets to try to get in the top 5.

[Revived]

Anyone know what's going on with Noel? Surprised he hasn't been signed yet. Guessing the Mavs are stuck on a number and Noel's agent wants a ton more.

All of these RFA negotiations where there was no offer because teams assumed the other would match, will probably drag out. I wonder the same idea about Len. It doesn't make a ton of sense to let him pay on the QO unless that is what he wants because if, by chance, he plays really well and is worth keeping, he walks. It seems they'd try to get him for 2-3 years on a cheap contract, with team option in last year, so we don't lose him if he plays well, or is likely tradeable for something.

But at this point, it's likely left to Len. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us to want him to play on the QO, because it would be better to rescind it, but I guess we could trade him, though a team wouldn't give up much for him for a half year or whatever, so it seems kind of pointless, because if he plays well, he will likely get more money in the offseason and is sure to leave. Of course I'm sure many want that regardless of play.

If he's productive enough we could probably send him to a playoff team for a 1st rd pick. A lot of playoff teams have traded 1st for 3/4 month rentals with two examples last year being Bogdanovic and Korver who were both traded while only having few months left on their contract.

[Saberestar]

If Len takes the QO I think he can not be traded.

[LukasBMW]

I bet Len agrees to a 3 year deal.

He'd be stupid to take the QO.

One year at $6m and then risk either getting hurt, being buried on the bench, or playing like crap and having to go to Europe.

or

3 years at $21 million?

I wouldn't leave 15 million in guaranteed money on the table. (I'm assuming we'd offer at least 3/21 - comparable to what Sauce got).

[asudevil]

If Len takes the QO I think he can not be traded.

I'm not 100% but i believe that all QO's have a built in no trade clause, where he gets to approve where he's traded to.

Found it

101. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?

When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him, and instead becomes a Non-Bird free agent3. The player's consent is also required for any subsequent trades that season.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q101

[bigfoot]

Here's my solution: keep tanking until we get as many All-Stars as Golden State. Four sounds about right.

You want to be Portland? Charlotte? Indiana? I don't. I want to win a championship in Phoenix. Believe that. We're on our way to doing it, but we have to be patient with the guys we have.

I believe Booker, Jackson and Warren can be All-Stars. I believe Chriss and Bender can be, too, but I'm thinking we're going to need more time to make that determination.

PATIENCE. That's how Golden State did it, that's how the Spurs did it. You can add a free agent or two, but only when you have the right mix in place already (Kobe/Shaq, '04 Pistons).

(Minnesota's a 45 win team. Watch; you'll see.)

Golden States drafted Klay, Curry, traded Monta for Bogut, gave up two picks to get cap space for Iggy, drafted Barnes and I think Green, than filled in around that with role players; got Durant.

so, it truly was a combination of drafting, free agency, trades, good identification of role players. I actually think Mark Jackson helped building a culture that Kerr took over

So, I don't think the Suns need to tank - they should try to win with the group they have. But understand, they probably will not make play-offs - which is okay. But enough tanking - teams need to learn how to win.

It is stupid, impatient, and short sighted to try and be anything but at the bottom of the west this year. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to get us to shortcut our way to mediocrity which will just result in another decade of frustration. And to be clear, this Suns team has only been "tanking" for one year.

I understand we have a young team. But ... I think most true fans would be very happy to see this team, as constructed, do well this year. By well I mean anything north of 32 wins. That means our youngsters are contributing and learning how to win and if we don't get a top 5 pick that's too bad. On the other hand, if we only win in the high-teens to mid-twenties that really means our young guns aren't where they need to be and may never be a decent starter (e.g., Len).

Another sub-.300 year is not what this team needs. Sadly it is what tankers are already rooting for without a single game played in the 2017/2018 season. Tanking shouldn't start until January at the earliest. Last year it happened after the all-star break in March and we still got our top five pick.

I fully expect training camp to be a competition for playing time and starting spots. Bledsoe and Chandler will likely be two of the starters. Dudley, Knight, James, and Milsap should be allowed to compete for playing time too. Teams should put the best product on the floor at the beginning of the season and see what happens. Right now I am expecting a starting five of

Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Warren
Chandler

with a bench of

Ulis or James
Knight or Reed or DJJ
Bender or Dudley or Milsap
Chriss or Bender
Williams or Bender

[bwgood77]

If Len takes the QO I think he can not be traded.

Yeah, I tried to research that for about 3 minutes before my post, but wasn't too extensive..didn't look for Coons stuff or anything, but didn't see anything about it.

[bwgood77]

Golden States drafted Klay, Curry, traded Monta for Bogut, gave up two picks to get cap space for Iggy, drafted Barnes and I think Green, than filled in around that with role players; got Durant.

so, it truly was a combination of drafting, free agency, trades, good identification of role players. I actually think Mark Jackson helped building a culture that Kerr took over

So, I don't think the Suns need to tank - they should try to win with the group they have. But understand, they probably will not make play-offs - which is okay. But enough tanking - teams need to learn how to win.

It is stupid, impatient, and short sighted to try and be anything but at the bottom of the west this year. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to get us to shortcut our way to mediocrity which will just result in another decade of frustration. And to be clear, this Suns team has only been "tanking" for one year.

I understand we have a young team. But ... I think most true fans would be very happy to see this team, as constructed, do well this year. By well I mean anything north of 32 wins. That means our youngsters are contributing and learning how to win and if we don't get a top 5 pick that's too bad. On the other hand, if we only win in the high-teens to mid-twenties that really means our young guns aren't where they need to be and may never be a decent starter (e.g., Len).

Another sub-.300 year is not what this team needs. Sadly it is what tankers are already rooting for without a single game played in the 2017/2018 season. Tanking shouldn't start until January at the earliest. Last year it happened after the all-star break in March and we still got our top five pick.

I fully expect training camp to be a competition for playing time and starting spots. Bledsoe and Chandler will likely be two of the starters. Dudley, Knight, James, and Milsap should be allowed to compete for playing time too. Teams should put the best product on the floor at the beginning of the season and see what happens. Right now I am expecting a starting five of

Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Warren
Chandler

with a bench of

Ulis or James
Knight or Reed or DJJ
Bender or Dudley or Milsap
Chriss or Bender
Williams or Bender

We should improve a bit if we play Bledsoe and Chandler all season, and everyone stays healthy. If we play our youngsters more and the vets like Dudley and Chandler less, it might be a bit tougher. But yes, I think if everyone improves quite a bit we could win 32 or so and get the 8th pick maybe...Sacramento finished with 32, slotted 8th, but jumped to 3rd and Philly got the swap.

Like I said earlier, I think we could finish anywhere in the bottom 8, but likely not in the bottom 2-3 or at 7-8 but maybe in between. It may depend on just how bad those bottom east teams are....there are at least 4-5 pretty bad ones, but they will have to each win against each other.

[jcsunsfan]

It is stupid, impatient, and short sighted to try and be anything but at the bottom of the west this year. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to get us to shortcut our way to mediocrity which will just result in another decade of frustration. And to be clear, this Suns team has only been "tanking" for one year.

I understand we have a young team. But ... I think most true fans would be very happy to see this team, as constructed, do well this year. By well I mean anything north of 32 wins. That means our youngsters are contributing and learning how to win and if we don't get a top 5 pick that's too bad. On the other hand, if we only win in the high-teens to mid-twenties that really means our young guns aren't where they need to be and may never be a decent starter (e.g., Len).

Another sub-.300 year is not what this team needs. Sadly it is what tankers are already rooting for without a single game played in the 2017/2018 season. Tanking shouldn't start until January at the earliest. Last year it happened after the all-star break in March and we still got our top five pick.

I fully expect training camp to be a competition for playing time and starting spots. Bledsoe and Chandler will likely be two of the starters. Dudley, Knight, James, and Milsap should be allowed to compete for playing time too. Teams should put the best product on the floor at the beginning of the season and see what happens. Right now I am expecting a starting five of

Bledsoe
Booker
Jackson
Warren
Chandler

with a bench of

Ulis or James
Knight or Reed or DJJ
Bender or Dudley or Milsap
Chriss or Bender
Williams or Bender

We should improve a bit if we play Bledsoe and Chandler all season, and everyone stays healthy. If we play our youngsters more and the vets like Dudley and Chandler less, it might be a bit tougher. But yes, I think if everyone improves quite a bit we could win 32 or so and get the 8th pick maybe...Sacramento finished with 32, slotted 8th, but jumped to 3rd and Philly got the swap.

Like I said earlier, I think we could finish anywhere in the bottom 8, but likely not in the bottom 2-3 or at 7-8 but maybe in between. It may depend on just how bad those bottom east teams are....there are at least 4-5 pretty bad ones, but they will have to each win against each other.

Adding Jackson, adding age to Booker, Ulis, Chriss, Bender, adding Bledsoe and Chandler for the whole year. That should be a 10 game improvement I would think.

[Djedefre]

We should wait to see the schedule, but to expect us to win more than 30 games is beyond optimistic. I guess people seriously count on those games versus leastern conference teams.