2017 Nets Offseason Thread III

[Prokorov]

I strongly disagree I think Carroll is garbage and Anderson is one of the best stretch bigs in the league. Carroll doesn't contribute to the offense outside of 3s, rebound or defend well anymore either. And Carroll doesn't even shoot anywhere near 40% from 3. There really is no basis for current Demarre Carroll being better than current Ryan Anderson. I also strongly disagree that Carroll is a better fit.

Current Ryan Anderson is arguably the worst defensive player in the NBA. He is bargani level bad on defense. Carroll shot 39% from three 2 of the last three years and 34% in his worst season coming off injury. He is also a better rebounder then anderson, better defender, better passer, better off the dribble, better in transition. there is literally nothing anderson does better other then shoot threes, where he is marginally better.

the whole point of a stretch big is that they can shoot and give you things a big can do.. anderson doesnt do that with his horrid defense and no rebounding

I understand the worries about Andersons contract, however if we give up Carroll and Nicholson like in the deal I suggested then his contract will only be 12 mill more in total, which a Houston 1st totally makes up for especially if Hartenstein is added as well.

But we can agree to disagree.

i dont think its even remotely close. anderson is one of the 5 worst contracts in the league. carroll is barely bad, and becomes an expiring after 1 season. nicholson is bad but low salary at 6 million.

andersons is 20 million and 3 years. some late first and a low pick prospect doesnt close that gap.

if the knicks pick top 3 protected isnt invovled its not close

[MrDollarBills]

Wow I didn't know you guys were so unified against Ryan Anderson. I thought he would be a great fit as a 40+ 3pt shooter and a big upgrade over Carroll and Nicholson for only 15 mill more in 2019-20 while saving money in the 2 years before. But I guess not.

I'd rather we have bigs that can defend personally.

This is another reason why i'd want nothing to do with Kevin Love either.

Of course, so would anyone.

But Nicholson has never been a good defender and Demarre isn't a good defender anymore either which is all you're giving up here for 12 mill more of Anderson plus Hartenstein. I think if Houston throws in a 1st then we have to pull the trigger.

last metrics I checked, Carroll was a plus defender. i could be wrong though

[MrDollarBills]

im not sure he is an upgrade over caroll. Anderson was statistically one of the worst defenders in the league each of the last 3 seaons. he is nearly as bad a rebounder as lopez. he really does nothing other then shoot threes. and is a negative in most other areas.

on top of that, he makes tons.

to me carroll, booker, acy, and RHJ are all better PF options

Yeah.

People want the Nets to win games, the only way we'll win is if we play defense. that is what killed us in most of our games last year. in the 4th qtr, we had a glaring defensive liability in Lopez.

Center and PF need to be able to get out and defend on switches. This is why I don't care that RHJ is about 15 lbs away from where he needs to be. he will make defensive plays.

Ryan Anderson...Kevin Love...those are names. Names that come with bad defense. no thank you. I can deal with a guard that can't defend, but we cannot have trash defense from frontcourt guys.

Understandable but it's about Anderson vs Carrol/Nicholson. RHJ would still be on the team and the Rockets won 50 games with "names that come with bad defense" Ryan Anderson would give us way more than he would take away.

Also Kevin Love is never happening it's a waste of energy to talk about him.

The Rockets won 50 games because they have James Harden, a basketball savant, posting legit hall of fame tier numbers across the board.

like if he retired tomorrow, he'd be a lock for hall of fame. ryan anderson has nothing to do with that.

Ryan Anderson makes 20 mil a season and posted a 13 PER

that is an albatross contract. Straight up ass water.

[Prokorov]

Yeah.

People want the Nets to win games, the only way we'll win is if we play defense. that is what killed us in most of our games last year. in the 4th qtr, we had a glaring defensive liability in Lopez.

Center and PF need to be able to get out and defend on switches. This is why I don't care that RHJ is about 15 lbs away from where he needs to be. he will make defensive plays.

Ryan Anderson...Kevin Love...those are names. Names that come with bad defense. no thank you. I can deal with a guard that can't defend, but we cannot have trash defense from frontcourt guys.

Understandable but it's about Anderson vs Carrol/Nicholson. RHJ would still be on the team and the Rockets won 50 games with "names that come with bad defense" Ryan Anderson would give us way more than he would take away.

Also Kevin Love is never happening it's a waste of energy to talk about him.

The Rockets won 50 games because they have James Harden, a basketball savant, posting legit hall of fame tier numbers across the board.

like if he retired tomorrow, he'd be a lock for hall of fame. ryan anderson has nothing to do with that.

Ryan Anderson makes 20 mil a season and posted a 13 PER

that is an albatross contract. Straight up ass water.

if we want a big who does nothing but shoot we can get a guy like spencer hawes much cheaper

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I really don't know if I see the point in offering Noel a big contract when we just drafted Allen and have Mozgov under contract. I completely understand Soul Glo is years away from being an impactful rotation player, let alone starter and I get Mozgov is mediocre bench fodder who was simply contractual baggage which was required to facilitate the Russell deal. But unless you're convinced Noel is a long term big minute starter, what is the point in adding another similar big though, especially with Allen here?

Because I think Noel is potential all star player and would fit great in our offense.

We can even play Noel at the 4. Its not like Allen is going to be ready to play this season most likely.

And even if he starts this season thats fine.

Russell
Levert
RHJ
Noel
Allen

That's a starting 5 I would be happy with.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I can't believe the Rockets even gave Ryan Anderson that contract. What were they thinking?

One of Morey's dumbest moves.

[Vae Victus]

The problem with starting Carroll at the 4 is that it pushes Booker to 3rd string, and i dunno how he's gonna like that. Unless Booker develops a 3pt shot or can play some C mins or RHJ gets mins at the 3, its just overcrowded at the 4spot with not enough mins to go around.

In the end theyll prolly let training camp decides who play.

[ChokeFasncists]

I can't believe the Rockets even gave Ryan Anderson that contract. What were they thinking?

One of Morey's dumbest moves.

I think he panicked after losing Dwight and couldn't get any good bigs to sign. MDA probably had something to do with it. I'd imagine he had to overpay to get him from New Orleans.

[ChokeFasncists]

The problem with starting Carroll at the 4 is that it pushes Booker to 3rd string, and i dunno how he's gonna like that. Unless Booker develops a 3pt shot or can play some C mins or RHJ gets mins at the 3, its just overcrowded at the 4spot with not enough mins to go around.

In the end theyll prolly let training camp decides who play.

Even if DMC starts at the 4, he could still get minutes at the 3. Booker could get minutes at the 5 and he shot pretty well from deep off the bench last season.

Looks like DMC was a 4 when he came into the league. Then he found a shot and became a 3. Now he's older and slower I imagine he's mostly a 4. I don't like him starting at the 4 tho, he's even lighter than RHJ last season. RHJ's gonna get more muscles quick.

The most balanced way to go about it at the beginning of the season is probably have DMC be a token starter at the 3, then have LVJ be the super-sub at the 3 while he gains more muscles.

Lin/DVD
DAR/iHead
DMC/LVJ
RHJ/Booker/DMC
Moz/Acy/Booker/Jar

We'll have to see how much offense we can get out of Moz,ARD and RHJ tho, three starters that are kinda question marks. If they don't score enough we'd have to start LVJ.

Seeing guys like SKil, GWin and JHar probably being pushed to third string is really bittersweet. But since this team play at such a high pace, they'll surely get their opportunities.

[treiz]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

See, I'm the opposite, I think we definitely have enough bigs with shooting range for sure. Acy, Mosgov and Carroll I feel should be enough. Especially when you have 2 of them that have already shot a good % from 3. You don't even necessarily need 3 range, even a long 2 like what Mosgov has is good enough.

Heck, even Nicholson has some decent range, in his final year at Orlando he shot it at 36% on 2 attempts per game, and I feel that Atkinson will give him a shot this year.

I can't imagine Carroll starting at all, I think he would split minutes from the bench at the 3 and 4. Maybe at 20 minutes total, 10 at each position.

[Prokorov]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

I think Caroll starts at SF and either Levert or Russell comes off the bench. Probably levert.

[Prokorov]

I really don't know if I see the point in offering Noel a big contract when we just drafted Allen and have Mozgov under contract. I completely understand Soul Glo is years away from being an impactful rotation player, let alone starter and I get Mozgov is mediocre bench fodder who was simply contractual baggage which was required to facilitate the Russell deal. But unless you're convinced Noel is a long term big minute starter, what is the point in adding another similar big though, especially with Allen here?

Because I think Noel is potential all star player and would fit great in our offense.

We can even play Noel at the 4. Its not like Allen is going to be ready to play this season most likely.

And even if he starts this season thats fine.

Russell
Levert
RHJ
Noel
Allen

That's a starting 5 I would be happy with.

Allen i dont think is ready to start yet. he might not be ready for big rotation minutes yet. i can see him getting 14-18 mpg and some dnps with weeks off out of the rotation. I see no reason why allen should prevent a Noel signing. if they both end up being good thats a great problem to have. you can always trade a young defensive anchor in this league.

im with you. i think he can be an all-star. and we desperatly need talent.

[Prokorov]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

See, I'm the opposite, I think we definitely have enough bigs with shooting range for sure. Acy, Mosgov and Carroll I feel should be enough. Especially when you have 2 of them that have already shot a good % from 3. You don't even necessarily need 3 range, even a long 2 like what Mosgov has is good enough.

Heck, even Nicholson has some decent range, in his final year at Orlando he shot it at 36% on 2 attempts per game, and I feel that Atkinson will give him a shot this year.

I can't imagine Carroll starting at all, I think he would split minutes from the bench at the 3 and 4. Maybe at 20 minutes total, 10 at each position.

I agree... i dont see the need for another shooting big.... i think we have a much bigger need for shooting wings. right now the only starting calibur shooting wing we have is Russell and Carroll. Levert shot 32% from deep. not great. Carroll isnt a long term solution and once Lin moves on and russell moves to PG we dont have a ton of shooting at the G/Wing spots.

[Keith Van Horn]

I'm still intrigued by what's going on with Noel. Can't he play both the 4 and 5? What's his ceiling as a player? I know he got the shaft in Philly and had a good run with the Mavs. What might've been the issue with the Nets not even wanting to meet with him?

[MrDollarBills]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

Not sure what Kenny will do here. I have no issue with either LeVert or RHJ coming off of the bench, my thing is to the people who say Carroll should start at the 4, how is it that RHJ is considered undersized 6'7 220+ (we don't know what his weight is yet but he does appear to have gained some) yet Carroll at 6'8 215 (and wiry thin) will be just fine at PF? I don't get that.

If Carroll is healthy he should definitely start imo. The guy should have a field day in this offense.

[JoseRizal]

With the Noel debacle we should somewhat make a decent offer similar to KCP.

A 4/60 or 4/70 at best should do it. If the Mavs matches then we move on. There's no risk in doing this since there's no close to deserving signing with the remaining cap space we have. I'd rather pull the trigger on a 23 yo defensive anchor than sign role players to 10M contracts.

Cuban is playing poker with Noel and wants to get him on the cheap. Let them sweat a little with an offer sheet...

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

Not sure what Kenny will do here. I have no issue with either LeVert or RHJ coming off of the bench, my thing is to the people who say Carroll should start at the 4, how is it that RHJ is considered undersized 6'7 220+ (we don't know what his weight is yet but he does appear to have gained some) yet Carroll at 6'8 215 (and wiry thin) will be just fine at PF? I don't get that.

If Carroll is healthy he should definitely start imo. The guy should have a field day in this offense.

I think it's because of the fact that he played a lot of PF for Toronto last season especially early in the year before ibaka and tucker were on the team. Also he would give us shooting at PF that RHJ can't provide. IMO he should be the first forward off the bench but closing games at the 4 with Lin/Russell/LeVert/Carroll/Mozgov(Allen)

[TheBrooklynKidd]

I really don't know if I see the point in offering Noel a big contract when we just drafted Allen and have Mozgov under contract. I completely understand Soul Glo is years away from being an impactful rotation player, let alone starter and I get Mozgov is mediocre bench fodder who was simply contractual baggage which was required to facilitate the Russell deal. But unless you're convinced Noel is a long term big minute starter, what is the point in adding another similar big though, especially with Allen here?

Because I think Noel is potential all star player and would fit great in our offense.

We can even play Noel at the 4. Its not like Allen is going to be ready to play this season most likely.

And even if he starts this season thats fine.

Russell
Levert
RHJ
Noel
Allen

That's a starting 5 I would be happy with.

Allen i dont think is ready to start yet. he might not be ready for big rotation minutes yet. i can see him getting 14-18 mpg and some dnps with weeks off out of the rotation. I see no reason why allen should prevent a Noel signing. if they both end up being good thats a great problem to have. you can always trade a young defensive anchor in this league.

im with you. i think he can be an all-star. and we desperatly need talent.

I don't really see Allen falling out of the rotation at all. I think people really underestimate how skilled he is and the fact that his body is nba ready despite being thin. Personally I think he can contribute right away and if Zubac eventually replaced Mozgov in the Lakers starting lineup, I'm sure Allen is capable of doing the same for us this season. I think he's already more capable of switching on the perimeter than Mozgov at the moment and may even be a better finisher at the rim but I guess we'll see.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Alright Im done you guys have convinced me. Especially when you take into account the contract difference. Still think we need a stretch big though just not one at 20 mill a year.

Maybe Mirotic? On a one year "bet on myself" deal?

Also do you guys think Demarre starts at PF or comes off the bench? I'm assuming Kenny would rather start LeVert over RHJ.

See, I'm the opposite, I think we definitely have enough bigs with shooting range for sure. Acy, Mosgov and Carroll I feel should be enough. Especially when you have 2 of them that have already shot a good % from 3. You don't even necessarily need 3 range, even a long 2 like what Mosgov has is good enough.

Heck, even Nicholson has some decent range, in his final year at Orlando he shot it at 36% on 2 attempts per game, and I feel that Atkinson will give him a shot this year.

I can't imagine Carroll starting at all, I think he would split minutes from the bench at the 3 and 4. Maybe at 20 minutes total, 10 at each position.

Honestly I just don't see any reason for Nicholson to get minutes on this team at all unless someone misses a lot of games. He truly is garbage. IMO barring injury I can't see him even getting dressed for 90% of games.