Question on Tom Brady....

It Is I Folks · Post #1 » by **It Is I Folks** » Thu Jul 6, 2017 9:15 pm

Just wanting to get different point of views from different types of people....
A cousin of mine says Tom Brady is just a product of Belichek's system. That Brady is more of a game manager, checkdown/short pass king. He believes any QB in that system would have the same type of career Tom Brady has had, even going as far as to saying Jacoby Brissett can have a similar type career numbers as Tom Brady. As asinine as that sounds, he actually truly believes this.
Taughts?

Otis Driftwood · Post #2 » by **Otis Driftwood** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 12:02 pm

Same thing was said about Joe Montana in the 80's. He was a product of Bill Walsh's system and he flourished as a result. That argument has been made over and over throughout the history of the game with everyone from Otto Graham to Bart Starr to Troy Aikman to (fill in the blank).

It still comes down to execution. And Tom Brady has executed Belichick's system (with multiple offensive coordinators mind you) flawlessly for 17 seasons and counting. He is the greatest QB of this generation and arguably (when he is done) the greatest of all time. And that isn't just the observation of this simple observer of the last 50 years of the NFL who only 10 years ago grudgingly moved Joe Montana ahead of Johnny Unitas in his personal all time greats. Anyone who argues otherwise by trying to use friggin' Jacoby Brissett as an example in diminishing the greatness of Tom Brady has an axe to grind.

But... that's just me. What do I know?

RaoulDuke79 · Post #3 » by **RaoulDuke79** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 5:08 pm

Belichick's system brought them back from 25 points behind in the Super Bowl, didn't you know?

Otis Driftwood · Post #4 » by **Otis Driftwood** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 8:32 pm

RaoulDuke79 wrote:Belichick's system brought them back from 25 points behind in the Super Bowl, didn't you know?

Well... screw me.

:banghead:

Post #5 » by **Cactus Jack** » Fri Jul 7, 2017 10:15 pm

He's the luckiest SOB that ever lived. :sigh:

RavenMad31 · Post #6 » by **RavenMad31** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 12:27 am

It Is I Folks wrote:Just wanting to get different point of views from different types of people....
A cousin of mine says Tom Brady is just a product of Belichek's system. That Brady is more of a game manager, checkdown/short pass king. He believes any QB in that system would have the same type of career Tom Brady has had, even going as far as to saying Jacoby Brissett can have a similar type career numbers as Tom Brady. As asinine as that sounds, he actually truly believes this.
Taughts?

I would stop letting my cousin talk about football. It might be even more asinine than it sounds.

Otis Driftwood · Post #7 » by **Otis Driftwood** » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:57 pm

RavenMad31 wrote:
It Is I Folks wrote:Just wanting to get different point of views from different types of people....
A cousin of mine says Tom Brady is just a product of Belichek's system. That Brady is more of a game manager, checkdown/short pass king. He believes any QB in that system would have the same type of career Tom Brady has had, even going as far as to saying Jacoby Brissett can have a similar type career numbers as Tom Brady. As asinine as that sounds, he actually truly believes this.
Taughts?

I would stop letting my cousin talk about football. It might be even more asinine than it sounds.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Winner... right here!

Post #8 » by **bleu** » Sun Jul 9, 2017 7:54 pm

I find the whole "product of a system" debate pretty dumb. It's not rocket science to figure out that a mastermind coach like Belichick makes every player he is involved with better. Of course he does. Just about any player in the game would benefit from playing in the Patriots system. But I don't see how in any way shape or form that takes away from Tom Brady and what he's done in his career.

He's one of the greatest football players of all time. Yes, his coach and system have helped him get to that point. But to act like that's any reason to take away from his greatness is just stupid.

hermes · Post #9 » by **hermes** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:32 pm

brady's been there for this whole run, if he was just a product of the system belichick probably would have waived him a few years ago for a younger/cheaper qb

War Machine · Post #10 » by **War Machine** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:55 pm

Brady's the GOAT. Of course Belichik's System makes him better. It makes every quarterback better. But there's a reason Brady is better than every other quarterback Belichick has ever had... because he's a great player regardless. No better gamer than he. Montana is close, but he's the best ever.

bmurph128 · Post #11 » by **bmurph128** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:39 pm

I'm now on the Brady is GOAT bus...I look at it like this...for me, Brady and Manning are extremely close. One played with the GOAT coach, the other did not. So football more than any sport, no one player should be assigned with wins or losses. So the fact that Brady has won so many games, that's a product of the team and coach, as well as Brady.

Him being the GOAT for me doesn't have much to do with the fact that he has 5 rings - if Atlanta won the coin toss and drove down and scored a TD, Brady still would have been the GOAT for me after seeing how he performed in the 2nd half.

It was common sense to me that early on in his career, he shouldn't have been in the conversation with Peyton. Brady early on IMO was like Kyrie now with the 2004 Detroit Pistons and Pop coaching - sure, he was an all star caliber player - but likely not the best player on his own team. Had a great coach, played great defense as a team, but when the playoffs hit and lights turned on, he shined the brightest.

But then Brady never had an elite WR....enter Randy Moss and BAM! Brady's has been rapidly ascending to GOAT status every since.

bmurph128 · Post #12 » by **bmurph128** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:20 pm

bleu wrote:I find the whole "product of a system" debate pretty dumb. It's not rocket science to figure out that a mastermind coach like Belichick makes every player he is involved with better. Of course he does. Just about any player in the game would benefit from playing in the Patriots system. But I don't see how in any way shape or form that takes away from Tom Brady and what he's done in his career.

He's one of the greatest football players of all time. Yes, his coach and system have helped him get to that point. But to act like that's any reason to take away from his greatness is just stupid.

I don't think anyone would argue that he's one of the greatest football players of all time - and IMO, he is the GOAT.

But we have the same types of discussions with LeBron and MJ - people find something to ding LeBron for that's not a huge issue, but an advantage or disadvantage that he had compared to MJ.

It's the same for Brady IMO - a lot of people will argue that he's the GOAT because of his rings. An easy counter to that is that he plays for the best coach of all time. Him going from a 6th round pick to serviceable starter to game manager doesn't help his argument either. Add in the relative success of the other QBs that played there, and you have a recipe for people to debate his GOAT status.

Revived · Post #13 » by **Revived** » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:18 pm

Bellichek is a defensive coach, I'm not sure how he's supposed to have a system that makes Brady and all QBs look the way he does.

Sure Matt Cassel and Jimmy G had success too but I don't that should diminish Brady's accomplishments as the best qb the NFL has ever seen.

afox · Post #14 » by **afox** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:19 am

Every player is a product of their system...Belichick is a defensive mind...Montana played for Walsh, one of the best offensive minds ever...No one had ever seen the west coast offense before....Think that was an advantage?...He also had Rice, who most consider greater all time than Montana...Brady never had the weapons Montana did...And the 49ers defense was always top notch too...So dont go there...This is nothing like MJ vs James...MJ and Brady are the GOAT...and its a consensus..Now Brady might not be the best player ever, but we know hes the best qb ever...

afox · Post #15 » by **afox** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:23 am

And to answer the assanine cousin...When Brisset played last year...They only ran the ball...Literally...

afox · Post #16 » by **afox** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:25 am

And while every player is a product of their system...There are players who come around, who actually define their system...Brady is one of those...Believe he makes coaches look good...Not the other way around...

xchange55 · Post #17 » by **xchange55** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:14 am

It Is I Folks wrote:That Brady is more of a game manager, checkdown/short pass king.

I fully agreed with this statement earlier in Brady's career. Remember all those plays where it was quick snap, two steps back, a receiver either doesn't move off the line, or fakes an up route and stops, quick throw easy completion - it's either a play of little gain or the receiver might break one here and there, but no risk. ANY NFL starting caliber quarterback can make that throw.

Over the years I don't know if Brady had gotten better, or the team had more confidence in his arm as time went on, but his down field accuracy is quite impressive.

Now there is certainly something to the team and system - remember Matt Cassel let the team to double digit wins the year Brady went down. And we all know how Cassel turned out. But you can't deny Brady has some talent - a system can't make those down field throws that split defenders for you.

LAKESHOW · Post #18 » by **LAKESHOW** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:20 pm

The balls were deflated for much of his career. Add that to home field advantage given to them by that division, it's too much to overcome

Post #19 » by **bleu** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:16 am

I get hating the Patriots. I'm far from a Pats fan. And I get hating Belichick, or Boston, or the fans, or even Tom Brady. But the slander Brady takes is ridiculous. So many people are so quick to throw out deflategate or spygate to discredit him, or the fact that he's played in a very good system his entire career, and it's simply ludicrous. If you can honestly watch him manage a game and see how he controls the team and makes the right decisions almost every single time and still say he's on one of the greatest ever, you simply don't understand football.

Otis Driftwood · Post #20 » by **Otis Driftwood** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:56 pm

bleu wrote:I get hating the Patriots. I'm far from a Pats fan. And I get hating Belichick, or Boston, or the fans, or even Tom Brady. But the slander Brady takes is ridiculous. So many people are so quick to throw out deflategate or spygate to discredit him, or the fact that he's played in a very good system his entire career, and it's simply ludicrous. If you can honestly watch him manage a game and see how he controls the team and makes the right decisions almost every single time and still say he's on one of the greatest ever, you simply don't understand football.

Winner...