If they have to trade Kyrie are the Cavs screwed?

therealbig3 · Post #41 » by **therealbig3** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:23 am

I can pretty much guarantee that the Cavs stay at the same level or even get better in some ways.

Man, Kyrie is overrated.

Euroballer · Post #42 » by **Euroballer** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:35 am

The more I think on this a 3-way with Suns and Knicks makes the most sense for all. Melo+Bledsoe to Cavs, Kyrie to Knicks, Frank rookie to Suns and a draft pick. Melo and Lebron can opt out next year or stick around. Either way works for Cavs. Sign Rose too, trade Love for a young shooting guard and a center.

Bledsoe
Rose
Lebron
Melo
Center

Or a new starting sharp shooter at SG and Rose coming off the bench. Rose is perfect for a Lebron team because he doesn't need any kind of direction to play his game. Love for Oladipo and Adams? Does it work? Love for Rodney Hood and Favors?

There isn't much future in such a team but Melo is a good fit if they find a strong center who can protect the rim. Melo can take those clutch half court shots that Lebron doesn't like and which Kyrie used to take. Melo also doesn't need to be set up by Bron to work.

Tyson Chandler+Wesley Matthews for Love and Shumpert?

Bledsoe
Matthews
Lebron
Melo
Chandler

Rose.

Dayum that's a team that can contend.

kayess · Post #43 » by **kayess** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:47 am

bondom34 wrote:I think if they got a guy like Bledsoe plus other assets it would be both fair value and make them better set up to succeed. So not at all.

They probably passed on the rumored Kyrie for Bledsoe + pick = George trade because they wanted Kyrie to be the face of the franchise after LeBron leaves... Turns out they should've absolutely taken it if it was on the table.

LikeABosh · Post #44 » by **LikeABosh** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:48 am

No way are they screwed. This is almost the best thing that could've happened to them. It's just too bad the cavs didn't have this info sooner.

therealbig3 · Post #45 » by **therealbig3** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:48 am

kayess wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I think if they got a guy like Bledsoe plus other assets it would be both fair value and make them better set up to succeed. So not at all.

They probably passed on the rumored Kyrie for Bledsoe + pick = George trade because they wanted Kyrie to be the face of the franchise after LeBron leaves... Turns out they should've absolutely taken it if it was on the table.

Yeah, Kyrie was considered untouchable it seems, because they wanted to hedge their bets with LeBron leaving.

Kind of screwed them over, because Kyrie could have definitely gotten them George or Butler. He obviously has much more trade value than Love.

LeBron-George/Butler-Love would obviously be amazing. Better than Kyrie-LeBron-George/Butler.

RCM88x · Post #46 » by **RCM88x** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:48 am

kayess wrote:
bondom34 wrote:I think if they got a guy like Bledsoe plus other assets it would be both fair value and make them better set up to succeed. So not at all.

They probably passed on the rumored Kyrie for Bledsoe + pick = George trade because they wanted Kyrie to be the face of the franchise after LeBron leaves... Turns out they should've absolutely taken it if it was on the table.

I think the Cavs were game for this but Indiana backed out because they didn't want to help the Cavs get better.

CodeBreaker · Post #47 » by **CodeBreaker** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:03 am

No. They can get better players than Kyrie. Kyrie is so inconsistent, and get pretty much overrated most of the time. He will be back to not making the playoffs or Finals again.

RCM88x · Post #48 » by **RCM88x** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:00 am

How likely do you guys think this is?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycj4xr6r

Obviously NYK could include Niki to Phoenix and picks.

Possibly also get Shumpert or Frye in return if Phoenix doesn't want to take on those contracts and is happy with just Niki and picks.

GSP · Post #49 » by **GSP** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:13 am

Assuming they get a decent enough return (doesnt even need to be an allstar player just talking fit) i think the mainstream fans/media are gonna be shocked by how well the Cavs do in his absence

ardee · Post #50 » by **ardee** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:23 am

GSP wrote:Assuming they get a decent enough return (doesnt even need to be an allstar player just talking fit) i think the mainstream fans/media are gonna be shocked by how well the Cavs do in his absence

Replacing 25 ppg on 58% TS is not easy. He's a big part of their offense.

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ardee · Post #51 » by **ardee** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:25 am

Euroballer wrote:The more I think on this a 3-way with Suns and Knicks makes the most sense for all. Melo+Bledsoe to Cavs, Kyrie to Knicks, Frank rookie to Suns and a draft pick. Melo and Lebron can opt out next year or stick around. Either way works for Cavs. Sign Rose too, trade Love for a young shooting guard and a center.

Bledsoe
Rose
Lebron
Melo
Center

Or a new starting sharp shooter at SG and Rose coming off the bench. Rose is perfect for a Lebron team because he doesn't need any kind of direction to play his game. Love for Oladipo and Adams? Does it work? Love for Rodney Hood and Favors?

There isn't much future in such a team but Melo is a good fit if they find a strong center who can protect the rim. Melo can take those clutch half court shots that Lebron doesn't like and which Kyrie used to take. Melo also doesn't need to be set up by Bron to work.

Tyson Chandler+Wesley Matthews for Love and Shumpert?

Bledsoe
Matthews
Lebron
Melo
Chandler

Rose.

Dayum that's a team that can contend.

That would get annihilated by the Warriors.

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RCM88x · Post #52 » by **RCM88x** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:32 am

ardee wrote:
GSP wrote:Assuming they get a decent enough return (doesnt even need to be an allstar player just talking fit) i think the mainstream fans/media are gonna be shocked by how well the Cavs do in his absence

Replacing 25 ppg on 58% TS is not easy. He's a big part of their offense.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

In the first 24 games of the 15-16 season the Cavs started 17-7 without Irving, and 17-6 w/LeBron. Mo William and Delly were the starting PGs.

They also started 30-11 with Irving only playing 15 of those games and 26mpg coming off of a broken kneecap. He averaged 16/3/4 on 42/29/87 shooting.

With Bledsoe, Rose and maybe TJ Warren or Melo(?) in his place they'll probably be better.

Kyrie definitely had a coast factor to him in the majority of the RS. I still think his best RS was '14-15, where he player much better defense and off ball. Aka what Bledsoe, TJ and Melo would provide.

Scizzup · Post #53 » by **Scizzup** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:40 am

Kyrie is a weird talent, I think more of his value shows up in scoring esp post season. So they be fine in regular Season. Not sure Cavs can field out a team to actually defend GSW (too many holes). They kind of have to score with them. Cavs offense is a lot of iso and pnr. Kyrie rates very well in those play types.

ardee · Post #54 » by **ardee** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:10 am

RCM88x wrote:
ardee wrote:
GSP wrote:Assuming they get a decent enough return (doesnt even need to be an allstar player just talking fit) i think the mainstream fans/media are gonna be shocked by how well the Cavs do in his absence

Replacing 25 ppg on 58% TS is not easy. He's a big part of their offense.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

In the first 24 games of the 15-16 season the Cavs started 17-7 without Irving, and 17-6 w/LeBron. Mo William and Delly were the starting PGs.

They also started 30-11 with Irving only playing 15 of those games and 26mpg coming off of a broken kneecap. He averaged 16/3/4 on 42/29/87 shooting.

With Bledsoe, Rose and maybe TJ Warren or Melo(?) in his place they'll probably be better.

Kyrie definitely had a coast factor to him in the majority of the RS. I still think his best RS was '14-15, where he player much better defense and off ball. Aka what Bledsoe, TJ and Melo would provide.

Mentioning 2016 doesn't really help the anti-Kyrie case because the way he played against GSW in the Finals, I think only Chris Paul and Curry could've replicated that that year. Anyone else and the Cavs probably lose.

Kyrie's value comes from his isolation scoring in the Playoffs.

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RCM88x · Post #55 » by **RCM88x** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:14 am

ardee wrote:
RCM88x wrote:
ardee wrote:Replacing 25 ppg on 58% TS is not easy. He's a big part of their offense.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

In the first 24 games of the 15-16 season the Cavs started 17-7 without Irving, and 17-6 w/LeBron. Mo William and Delly were the starting PGs.

They also started 30-11 with Irving only playing 15 of those games and 26mpg coming off of a broken kneecap. He averaged 16/3/4 on 42/29/87 shooting.

With Bledsoe, Rose and maybe TJ Warren or Melo(?) in his place they'll probably be better.

Kyrie definitely had a coast factor to him in the majority of the RS. I still think his best RS was '14-15, where he player much better defense and off ball. Aka what Bledsoe, TJ and Melo would provide.

Mentioning 2016 doesn't really help the anti-Kyrie case because the way he played against GSW in the Finals, I think only Chris Paul and Curry could've replicated that that year. Anyone else and the Cavs probably lose.

Kyrie's value comes from his isolation scoring in the Playoffs.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

It's not an anti-Kyrie case, it's just an anti "replacing 25ppg on 58% TS is not easy" case.

Post #56 » by **penbeast0** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:06 am

Duke4life831 wrote:If that happens, they hopefully get some good young assets back or at least some draft picks. They also get his contract off the books, then they would probably trade Kevin Love as well and get some young assets or picks for him as well. The toughest part for them would be unloading the JR Smith and TT contracts. But with Love, Kyrie then Lebron off the books next summer, that opens a ton of cap space for them to go with whatever assets they get back for Love and Kyrie.

Without LeBron, Cleveland has never been and won't be a prime FA destination; they will be one of those cities that has to overpay to get the Tier 2/Tier 3 guys. The question is how you can make LeBron stay in Cleveland or at least maximize the last part of your window with him . . . then if he leaves, tear it down and start looking for that build around superstar again.

Bruh Man · Post #57 » by **Bruh Man** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:18 am

LikeABosh wrote:No way are they screwed. This is almost the best thing that could've happened to them. It's just too bad the cavs didn't have this info sooner.

How is losing your second best player the best thing that can happen to them? Especially when you take into account Lebrons situation it seems like one of the worst things that can happen to them. They aren't going to get much when trading Kyrie just look at at what the Pacers and Bulls got for much better players. What is there to keep Lebron in Cleveland now? It seems like this is the beginning of the end for the Cavs.

RCM88x · Post #58 » by **RCM88x** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:27 am

Bruh Man wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:No way are they screwed. This is almost the best thing that could've happened to them. It's just too bad the cavs didn't have this info sooner.

How is losing your second best player the best thing that can happen to them? Especially when you take into account Lebrons situation it seems like one of the worst things that can happen to them. They aren't going to get much when trading Kyrie just look at at what the Pacers and Bulls got for much better players. What is there to keep Lebron in Cleveland now? It seems like this is the beginning of the end for the Cavs.

Bulls and Pacers turned down better deals than what they got to keep their players out of the east.

Kyrie also has more years left on his deal than both of those guys and Cleveland is actually a good team that isn't being held hostage by Kyrie to trade him.

Do you think it's unrealistic that they can get someone like Bledsoe back in a trade?

Post #59 » by **bondom34** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:28 am

Bruh Man wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:No way are they screwed. This is almost the best thing that could've happened to them. It's just too bad the cavs didn't have this info sooner.

How is losing your second best player the best thing that can happen to them? Especially when you take into account Lebrons situation it seems like one of the worst things that can happen to them. They aren't going to get much when trading Kyrie just look at at what the Pacers and Bulls got for much better players. What is there to keep Lebron in Cleveland now? It seems like this is the beginning of the end for the Cavs.

Love is better than Irving and Kyrie hasn't really shown he's able to win anything without Lebron. He's not good enough to be a guy who makes a team "screwed" if they lose him. I'd take the Cavs with Bledsoe and an extra player over the current Cavs.

Bruh Man · Post #60 » by **Bruh Man** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:43 am

bondom34 wrote:
Bruh Man wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:No way are they screwed. This is almost the best thing that could've happened to them. It's just too bad the cavs didn't have this info sooner.

How is losing your second best player the best thing that can happen to them? Especially when you take into account Lebrons situation it seems like one of the worst things that can happen to them. They aren't going to get much when trading Kyrie just look at at what the Pacers and Bulls got for much better players. What is there to keep Lebron in Cleveland now? It seems like this is the beginning of the end for the Cavs.

Love is better than Irving and Kyrie hasn't really shown he's able to win anything without Lebron. He's not good enough to be a guy who makes a team "screwed" if they lose him. I'd take the Cavs with Bledsoe and an extra player over the current Cavs.

Love hasn't shown he could win without Lebron either and when it comes to the Playoffs Kyrie has been much better than Love and then when you take age into account it's no surprise the Cavs where looking to get rid of Love and not Kyrie. It's also telling that teams werent willing to give up anything of value for Love.

Also what makes everyone think the Cavs can get Bledsoe who is less efficient and can't spread the floor like Kyrie who is a much better 3 point shooter. Suns already have their small guard ISO scorer in Booker it would make no sense to trade for Kyrie.