Moderator: ijspeelman
chris4celts wrote:Celtics fan here throwing out a fake offer. Not saying I would do this, but is this something that might be considered (or not even close)?:
IT
Crowder
Yabusele
2018 and 2020 Celtics 1st round picks
jbk1234 wrote:chris4celts wrote:Celtics fan here throwing out a fake offer. Not saying I would do this, but is this something that might be considered (or not even close)?:
IT
Crowder
Yabusele
2018 and 2020 Celtics 1st round picks
The only realistic Celtics trade involved a scenario where Kyrie played this season out, LBJ decided to leave next summer, & the Celtics decided not to max IT. Absent an extreme overpay, Cavs won't be sending Kyrie to the Celtics in what could be LBJ's last year.
chris4celts wrote:jbk1234 wrote:chris4celts wrote:Celtics fan here throwing out a fake offer. Not saying I would do this, but is this something that might be considered (or not even close)?:
IT
Crowder
Yabusele
2018 and 2020 Celtics 1st round picks
The only realistic Celtics trade involved a scenario where Kyrie played this season out, LBJ decided to leave next summer, & the Celtics decided not to max IT. Absent an extreme overpay, Cavs won't be sending Kyrie to the Celtics in what could be LBJ's last year.
I get it. But it seems to me that the Cavs GM is obligated to take the best offer irrespective of who it's from.
jbk1234 wrote:chris4celts wrote:jbk1234 wrote:
The only realistic Celtics trade involved a scenario where Kyrie played this season out, LBJ decided to leave next summer, & the Celtics decided not to max IT. Absent an extreme overpay, Cavs won't be sending Kyrie to the Celtics in what could be LBJ's last year.
I get it. But it seems to me that the Cavs GM is obligated to take the best offer irrespective of who it's from.
As we saw with PG, that's not always the case when it comes to trading with conference rivals. Setting that aside, that wouldn't be close to the best offer. I think you'll find that IT's trade value coming off his injury, and heading into a contract year where's announced that he wants a max deal, is going to underwhelm. Honestly, if you still had Bradley, I'd want him over IT.
Profound23 wrote:I think the Celtics are the best trade partner as far as assets. However who wants to trade to the team who would then put you out of contention for the Finals?
Any trade offer I think would start with Tatum and some of the future picks they desired....and I doubt either team wants to do that deal.
zimpy27 wrote:This is an amazingly good thing to happen to the Cavs.
Kyrie essentially has let it be known he is tradeable and won't be re-signing with two seasons to spare.
You can't ask for a better situation for the Cavs when it comes to UFA.
It won't reflect badly if the Cavs to move him for a good package. It's also clear he is happy to stay for the season as long as LeBron is here. You can keep him this season and then trade him before he leaves in UFA.
So many chips in your favour guys. While it's not nice to know UFAs are leaving, if you do find out then you want to find out early like this. I'd try and think like Ainge in this situation. Trade Kyrie and Love for future picks in 2020 when they may leave the teams they are traded to anyway.
Stillwater wrote:zimpy27 wrote:This is an amazingly good thing to happen to the Cavs.
Kyrie essentially has let it be known he is tradeable and won't be re-signing with two seasons to spare.
You can't ask for a better situation for the Cavs when it comes to UFA.
It won't reflect badly if the Cavs to move him for a good package. It's also clear he is happy to stay for the season as long as LeBron is here. You can keep him this season and then trade him before he leaves in UFA.
So many chips in your favour guys. While it's not nice to know UFAs are leaving, if you do find out then you want to find out early like this. I'd try and think like Ainge in this situation. Trade Kyrie and Love for future picks in 2020 when they may leave the teams they are traded to anyway.
Irving has made it clear he does not want to play second fiddle to Lebron and so the fact that he is unsure if Lebron will be there after next season is the opposite of logical thinking as he would hope Lebron left, but on top of that this org is not going to build around Irving while it still has Lebron , so if Lebron leaves Irving still won't be happy because the team is built around Lebron & does not play to Kyries game without Lebron on the team leaving Irving in a situation where he goes back to being a lottery team with all of the same players he has been to 3 finals with sans Lebron. Hence the reasoning for Irving requesting a trade. He thinks Lebron is staying,but even if he leaves both scenarios Irving is "not the man" on a winning roster.
Irving should have made his mind known officially right after the finals not 2 weeks ago. This would have given the org more leverage.
As it is now, he gave them the shaft. Many available fa are gone that could have been had in sign and trades, and most teams are done making moves this off season for the most part. But, even with that being the case there are plenty of teams that would love to add Irving , and so The Cav's will bring in players that will further compliment Lebron, and if Lebron does leave ( doubtful having a team built around him) they will be back to the lottery anyway. Lebron holds all the cards as usual.
zimpy27 wrote:Stillwater wrote:zimpy27 wrote:This is an amazingly good thing to happen to the Cavs.
Kyrie essentially has let it be known he is tradeable and won't be re-signing with two seasons to spare.
You can't ask for a better situation for the Cavs when it comes to UFA.
It won't reflect badly if the Cavs to move him for a good package. It's also clear he is happy to stay for the season as long as LeBron is here. You can keep him this season and then trade him before he leaves in UFA.
So many chips in your favour guys. While it's not nice to know UFAs are leaving, if you do find out then you want to find out early like this. I'd try and think like Ainge in this situation. Trade Kyrie and Love for future picks in 2020 when they may leave the teams they are traded to anyway.
Irving has made it clear he does not want to play second fiddle to Lebron and so the fact that he is unsure if Lebron will be there after next season is the opposite of logical thinking as he would hope Lebron left, but on top of that this org is not going to build around Irving while it still has Lebron , so if Lebron leaves Irving still won't be happy because the team is built around Lebron & does not play to Kyries game without Lebron on the team leaving Irving in a situation where he goes back to being a lottery team with all of the same players he has been to 3 finals with sans Lebron. Hence the reasoning for Irving requesting a trade. He thinks Lebron is staying,but even if he leaves both scenarios Irving is "not the man" on a winning roster.
Irving should have made his mind known officially right after the finals not 2 weeks ago. This would have given the org more leverage.
As it is now, he gave them the shaft. Many available fa are gone that could have been had in sign and trades, and most teams are done making moves this off season for the most part. But, even with that being the case there are plenty of teams that would love to add Irving , and so The Cav's will bring in players that will further compliment Lebron, and if Lebron does leave ( doubtful having a team built around him) they will be back to the lottery anyway. Lebron holds all the cards as usual.
Irving isn't leaving because he doesn't want to be in LeBrons shadow, he's just saying that because he wants to leave eventually anyway, it makes no sense to suggest that now that LeBron is clearly giving more shots to Kyrie to lead. He doesn't want to be left with this team when he leaves because, yes, it's not setup for him.
But if you believe it's your way then it's still good because you can keep Kyrie with LeBron this season and then make it Kyries team the season after or trade him.
What do free agents have to do with anything? You need to trade Kyrie, can't sign free agents in the spot he vacates, wages must match. Only affects free agents that can't now be traded until the year end.
Stillwater wrote:zimpy27 wrote:Stillwater wrote:
Irving has made it clear he does not want to play second fiddle to Lebron and so the fact that he is unsure if Lebron will be there after next season is the opposite of logical thinking as he would hope Lebron left, but on top of that this org is not going to build around Irving while it still has Lebron , so if Lebron leaves Irving still won't be happy because the team is built around Lebron & does not play to Kyries game without Lebron on the team leaving Irving in a situation where he goes back to being a lottery team with all of the same players he has been to 3 finals with sans Lebron. Hence the reasoning for Irving requesting a trade. He thinks Lebron is staying,but even if he leaves both scenarios Irving is "not the man" on a winning roster.
Irving should have made his mind known officially right after the finals not 2 weeks ago. This would have given the org more leverage.
As it is now, he gave them the shaft. Many available fa are gone that could have been had in sign and trades, and most teams are done making moves this off season for the most part. But, even with that being the case there are plenty of teams that would love to add Irving , and so The Cav's will bring in players that will further compliment Lebron, and if Lebron does leave ( doubtful having a team built around him) they will be back to the lottery anyway. Lebron holds all the cards as usual.
Irving isn't leaving because he doesn't want to be in LeBrons shadow, he's just saying that because he wants to leave eventually anyway, it makes no sense to suggest that now that LeBron is clearly giving more shots to Kyrie to lead. He doesn't want to be left with this team when he leaves because, yes, it's not setup for him.
But if you believe it's your way then it's still good because you can keep Kyrie with LeBron this season and then make it Kyries team the season after or trade him.
What do free agents have to do with anything? You need to trade Kyrie, can't sign free agents in the spot he vacates, wages must match. Only affects free agents that can't now be traded until the year end.
Lebron was never leaving is the point. So you figure it out what makes the most sense. Irving was not even part of the cavs best lineup against GSW on Christmas day. There was a lot of leaks in past few days how Irving was on the block "before" he ever requested a trade.
He wants out for a lot of reasons;
1. because he is tired of being the second fiddle on a team he can't win with without Lebron on the court.
2 because he doesn't trust the org to ever build around him until he is past his prime should Lebron flip the script and leave after next season esp after they sold Irving on building around him when he signed his extension before Lebron came back to Cleveland.
3. because he believes the Cavs as built cannot beat GSW much less make the post season without Lebron should Lebron decide to leave so his selfish mindset is one that wants to get his and to be the man somewhere instead of the legacy of not being able to deliver something he cannot deliver without Lebron or without a team built around Irving to increase his odds of winning without Lebron.
4. Lebron was never letting Irving lead as you suggest. Giving him more shots? no, Irving would be taking a lot more shots if it was his team another reason he wants his own team.
as far as the FA market, you don't think the Cavs could have dealt Kyrie to LAC in a sign and trade for CP3? whatever.
zimpy27 wrote:Stillwater wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
Irving isn't leaving because he doesn't want to be in LeBrons shadow, he's just saying that because he wants to leave eventually anyway, it makes no sense to suggest that now that LeBron is clearly giving more shots to Kyrie to lead. He doesn't want to be left with this team when he leaves because, yes, it's not setup for him.
But if you believe it's your way then it's still good because you can keep Kyrie with LeBron this season and then make it Kyries team the season after or trade him.
What do free agents have to do with anything? You need to trade Kyrie, can't sign free agents in the spot he vacates, wages must match. Only affects free agents that can't now be traded until the year end.
Lebron was never leaving is the point. So you figure it out what makes the most sense. Irving was not even part of the cavs best lineup against GSW on Christmas day. There was a lot of leaks in past few days how Irving was on the block "before" he ever requested a trade.
He wants out for a lot of reasons;
1. because he is tired of being the second fiddle on a team he can't win with without Lebron on the court.
2 because he doesn't trust the org to ever build around him until he is past his prime should Lebron flip the script and leave after next season esp after they sold Irving on building around him when he signed his extension before Lebron came back to Cleveland.
3. because he believes the Cavs as built cannot beat GSW much less make the post season without Lebron should Lebron decide to leave so his selfish mindset is one that wants to get his and to be the man somewhere instead of the legacy of not being able to deliver something he cannot deliver without Lebron or without a team built around Irving to increase his odds of winning without Lebron.
4. Lebron was never letting Irving lead as you suggest. Giving him more shots? no, Irving would be taking a lot more shots if it was his team another reason he wants his own team.
as far as the FA market, you don't think the Cavs could have dealt Kyrie to LAC in a sign and trade for CP3? whatever.
Only a few guys are off limits because of free agency. Plenty more can be traded for now.
chris4celts wrote:Profound23 wrote:I think the Celtics are the best trade partner as far as assets. However who wants to trade to the team who would then put you out of contention for the Finals?
Any trade offer I think would start with Tatum and some of the future picks they desired....and I doubt either team wants to do that deal.
Ya, I agree the Celts will not do that. My gut feeling is that Tatum, Brown, and 2018 Nets pick are off the table unless AD hits the market.
Best of luck finding the right deal. Getting fair value is going to be tough.
You'd be wise to stay away from Melo - in my opinion.
Lastly, if I were Cavs, I'd trade Kyrie for best package of young players/picks I could get. Then I'd trade Love. Then Lebron would accept a trade and you could trade him too. Imagine that total haul? Time to start over in my opinion.
Addition:
Just read that LBJ will NOT waive his NTC for any team. Cavs should test that statement by surrounding LBJ with all rookies and young players after trading away Kyrie, Love, TT. He's just going to leave in a year and leave everyone high and dry like he does every few years. Let him get a taste of his own medicine.
jbk1234 wrote:sportscrazy wrote:If a deal were on the table where the Cavs trade Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert and Channing Frye for Carmelo Anthony, Eric Bledsoe and a 2018 New York Knicks First Round Draft Pick, how much protection could go on that pick before the Cavaliers wouldn't take the deal?
See, I'm not sure most Cavs fans would even take the deal but Dupp & I are pretty pissed at Kyrie so we would.
chris4celts wrote:Celtics fan here throwing out a fake offer. Not saying I would do this, but is this something that might be considered (or not even close)?:
IT
Crowder
Yabusele
2018 and 2020 Celtics 1st round picks
zimpy27 wrote:Stillwater wrote:zimpy27 wrote:This is an amazingly good thing to happen to the Cavs.
Kyrie essentially has let it be known he is tradeable and won't be re-signing with two seasons to spare.
You can't ask for a better situation for the Cavs when it comes to UFA.
It won't reflect badly if the Cavs to move him for a good package. It's also clear he is happy to stay for the season as long as LeBron is here. You can keep him this season and then trade him before he leaves in UFA.
So many chips in your favour guys. While it's not nice to know UFAs are leaving, if you do find out then you want to find out early like this. I'd try and think like Ainge in this situation. Trade Kyrie and Love for future picks in 2020 when they may leave the teams they are traded to anyway.
Irving has made it clear he does not want to play second fiddle to Lebron and so the fact that he is unsure if Lebron will be there after next season is the opposite of logical thinking as he would hope Lebron left, but on top of that this org is not going to build around Irving while it still has Lebron , so if Lebron leaves Irving still won't be happy because the team is built around Lebron & does not play to Kyries game without Lebron on the team leaving Irving in a situation where he goes back to being a lottery team with all of the same players he has been to 3 finals with sans Lebron. Hence the reasoning for Irving requesting a trade. He thinks Lebron is staying,but even if he leaves both scenarios Irving is "not the man" on a winning roster.
Irving should have made his mind known officially right after the finals not 2 weeks ago. This would have given the org more leverage.
As it is now, he gave them the shaft. Many available fa are gone that could have been had in sign and trades, and most teams are done making moves this off season for the most part. But, even with that being the case there are plenty of teams that would love to add Irving , and so The Cav's will bring in players that will further compliment Lebron, and if Lebron does leave ( doubtful having a team built around him) they will be back to the lottery anyway. Lebron holds all the cards as usual.
Irving isn't leaving because he doesn't want to be in LeBrons shadow, he's just saying that because he wants to leave eventually anyway, it makes no sense to suggest that now that LeBron is clearly giving more shots to Kyrie to lead. He doesn't want to be left with this team when he leaves because, yes, it's not setup for him.
But if you believe it's your way then it's still good because you can keep Kyrie with LeBron this season and then make it Kyries team the season after or trade him.
What do free agents have to do with anything? You need to trade Kyrie, can't sign free agents in the spot he vacates, wages must match. Only affects free agents that can't now be traded until the year end.
jbk1234 wrote:zimpy27 wrote:Stillwater wrote:
Irving has made it clear he does not want to play second fiddle to Lebron and so the fact that he is unsure if Lebron will be there after next season is the opposite of logical thinking as he would hope Lebron left, but on top of that this org is not going to build around Irving while it still has Lebron , so if Lebron leaves Irving still won't be happy because the team is built around Lebron & does not play to Kyries game without Lebron on the team leaving Irving in a situation where he goes back to being a lottery team with all of the same players he has been to 3 finals with sans Lebron. Hence the reasoning for Irving requesting a trade. He thinks Lebron is staying,but even if he leaves both scenarios Irving is "not the man" on a winning roster.
Irving should have made his mind known officially right after the finals not 2 weeks ago. This would have given the org more leverage.
As it is now, he gave them the shaft. Many available fa are gone that could have been had in sign and trades, and most teams are done making moves this off season for the most part. But, even with that being the case there are plenty of teams that would love to add Irving , and so The Cav's will bring in players that will further compliment Lebron, and if Lebron does leave ( doubtful having a team built around him) they will be back to the lottery anyway. Lebron holds all the cards as usual.
Irving isn't leaving because he doesn't want to be in LeBrons shadow, he's just saying that because he wants to leave eventually anyway, it makes no sense to suggest that now that LeBron is clearly giving more shots to Kyrie to lead. He doesn't want to be left with this team when he leaves because, yes, it's not setup for him.
But if you believe it's your way then it's still good because you can keep Kyrie with LeBron this season and then make it Kyries team the season after or trade him.
What do free agents have to do with anything? You need to trade Kyrie, can't sign free agents in the spot he vacates, wages must match. Only affects free agents that can't now be traded until the year end.
I see. Irving isn't leaving for the reason he says he's leaving & really he's okay with staying for the season even though he requested a trade.
This is nonsense. He'd have far more control over his destination if he asked for a trade after the season and had only one season left on his contract. Yet rather than wait a year, and take another shot a ring with the team that's been to Finals three years in a row, he walked in and asked for a trade this summer. He only does that because he really doesn't want to play with LBJ anymore.
bmurph128 wrote:jbk1234 wrote:zimpy27 wrote:
Irving isn't leaving because he doesn't want to be in LeBrons shadow, he's just saying that because he wants to leave eventually anyway, it makes no sense to suggest that now that LeBron is clearly giving more shots to Kyrie to lead. He doesn't want to be left with this team when he leaves because, yes, it's not setup for him.
But if you believe it's your way then it's still good because you can keep Kyrie with LeBron this season and then make it Kyries team the season after or trade him.
What do free agents have to do with anything? You need to trade Kyrie, can't sign free agents in the spot he vacates, wages must match. Only affects free agents that can't now be traded until the year end.
I see. Irving isn't leaving for the reason he says he's leaving & really he's okay with staying for the season even though he requested a trade.
This is nonsense. He'd have far more control over his destination if he asked for a trade after the season and had only one season left on his contract. Yet rather than wait a year, and take another shot a ring with the team that's been to Finals three years in a row, he walked in and asked for a trade this summer. He only does that because he really doesn't want to play with LBJ anymore.
Yep, and it makes you wonder..
Going back, it seems like Kyrie has never been happy playing with LBJ and it seems like this was his breaking point. I imagine that Kyrie did not intend to **** the Cavs over by waiting until after all this player movement to ask for a trade....so I would guess that he was talking to a friend/family member and talking about how he doesn't want to play with LeBron - and he probably realized that life was too short to be unhappy and so he made this request..
If you've ever known of or been in a work situation that made you unhappy, you know that you aren't nearly as productive - and it really makes you wonder. I've always said that Kyrie *should* be a decent defender - he's quick, strong for his size and has ideal height for a PG - it's possible IMO that his lack of effort and effort on defense could be correlated with him being unhappy - and if that's the case, he really potentially did the Cavs a favor by asking for this trade...albeit a little later than the Cavs would have preferred I'm sure.