Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30

[FlatearthZorro]

I want to know how's Irving better than It or why is he? What has Irving done without LeBron? Irving has gas 2 major injuries while It so far has had 0.... Not cause I'm Cs fan but no stats actually suggest it's worth trading IT for Irving.

[RingsDontLie]

Oh stop. As if there will ever be a definitive list. All I know is Lebron's career will end with three rings, so keep thanking Durant for it...keep those hate threads coming .

The reality is Lebron is fringe top 10. He's got too many losses, too many mental breakdowns in finals situations. And e's going to decline now, and as he declines people won't think so highly of him. It's just the way sports is. And why in the world would anyone put Lebron over Kareem or Magic? Let me guess, Lebron is better because he lost more, and ring chased. This is such a Lebron-forum.

There there guys, it will be ok. Keep pretending Lebron doesn't need to win more though to come close to the top 5. Even Barkley said Lebron isn't up there with Kobe yet, and Barkley pretty much hates Kobe.

Pfft, can't wait to see the 180 you pull if LeBron comes to town and brings the Lakers a ring or two. Your franchise really doesn't deserve him with all the super Kobe stans you have.

Btw, rings are not the end all be all of a player, you seemingly forget that. LeBron's game is one of the greatest ever, rings or not.

Of course Lebron is one of the greatest to lace them up. The argument is he is not better than many who have won more and achieved more in this league. And as much as they hate it, Kobe is one of those guys, along with Duncan, Magic, Jordan, Bird, etc. When his career is done, he'll go back down to reality. Top 10 somewhere but realistically out of the top 8. Assuming he doesn't win any more now that his situation is basically fubar, I think neck and neck with Larry Bird for that eight spot is reasonable. Slight edge to Larry for me, so maybe he goes to 9.

The media in his pocket will find a new relevant cash cow to exploit and adore. I don't see LBJ having the same devoted fans that MJ has had through the years. MJ is still the better brand, but Lebron is certainly 2nd to MJ as far as building his brand in the nba, Building their brands is where I draw similarities to Lebron and MJ...they were the best at it...but that is really where their similarities end.

[gino_giode]

If Kyrie makes this request a year from now, no one would blame him. But the fact is you just went to three straight finals, man. And the Cavs might have WON the first two if Kyrie was healthy. From the outside, Kyrie seems to care more about ego & image than winning

Reports say Ky was upset his name was floated in trade offers. He doesn't want to be part of an organization that doesn't value him and at the same time have his fate be up to LeBron.

The Cavs don't consult Kyrie for types of guys he would play with, but they will rush to appease LeBron and keep bringing in rusted old vets that can't even contribute in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Cavs can't nab guys like PG13 because LeBron refuses to hint at his intentions.

Winning is huge, but Kyrie has pride and won't have LeGM control his career trajectory anymore. Ky hopefully learned some things and will be better.

[baldur]

Boston would certainly do such a trade but Cleveland wouldn't. Irving is a much better player. I'd even rather have Bledsoe than Thomas

Do you hear what you are saying? What success has Bledsoe had in his career so far?

[Drax]

If it would be possible to straight up swap the two even with a pick added from Boston's side, sure the Celtics should consider it. But since there is a CBA in place that says salaries have to match, the added value of players involved makes it almost a no go for the Cs.

[infintybeyond]

I want to know how's Irving better than It or why is he? What has Irving done without LeBron? Irving has gas 2 major injuries while It so far has had 0.... Not cause I'm Cs fan but no stats actually suggest it's worth trading IT for Irving.

This is the problem with just looking at stats. There is a reason why one is an Olympian/Team USA type player, and the other isn't. They both can do similar things on the court. Kyrie is craftier. Kyrie is flashier. Kyrie is a better finisher. Kyrie is a big time playoff performer/more clutch. Kyrie is just better.

[Revived]

Boston would certainly do such a trade but Cleveland wouldn't. Irving is a much better player. I'd even rather have Bledsoe than Thomas

Do you hear what you are saying? What success has Bledsoe had in his career so far?

Wasn't IT Bledsoe's backup in Phoenix at one point?

[Winsome Gerbil]

why would they?

People play too much computer basketball sometimes. If a team can make a move for a different sort of player, or a massively more talented one, one that opens up new doors and capabilities, then sure, of course. But in real life, with real humans where real chemistry is involved, you're not going to dump the best player on your playoff team coming off a season where he averaged 29pts, for a similar player form an alien environment. I'm as far from an IT jocker as you can get, but it seems pretty obvious to me that's he's interwoven into Boston's identity and that until/unless a much better opportunity comes along you dance with the guy who brought you.

[baldur]

Boston would certainly do such a trade but Cleveland wouldn't. Irving is a much better player. I'd even rather have Bledsoe than Thomas

Do you hear what you are saying? What success has Bledsoe had in his career so far?

Wasn't IT Bledsoe's backup in Phoenix at one point?

Are we at that point now? Kings kicked him out too, so are the King's better than the celtics?

[Roddy]

Ante Zizic, Crowder and IT for Kyrie and Lebron.
No sure Danny Ainge would be OK to send Crowder for Lebron.

[DaddyCool19]

I think Boston should be on board for it, even if it costs them Crowder and a non brooklyn pick.

1. Financial reasons. Kyrie has 2 extra years on a contract where he will be paid like an above average role player

2. Age. He fits better with the Celtics contender window.

3. Dude is finals proven and if Lebron really goes west, I would say Boston has a great chance to make the finals(maybe even 2 or 3 times in the next 4 years after Lebron)and having him would help.

Tbh If I was DA I would ask Thomas what kind of contract he wants in FA. If he says a 4 year max or close to it I would easily trade hi. I don't think his game will age well. What happens once he loses a step or two in 2-3 years? That contract would look awful if that happens

[FlatearthZorro]

I want to know how's Irving better than It or why is he? What has Irving done without LeBron? Irving has gas 2 major injuries while It so far has had 0.... Not cause I'm Cs fan but no stats actually suggest it's worth trading IT for Irving.

This is the problem with just looking at stats. There is a reason why one is an Olympian/Team USA type player, and the other isn't. They both can do similar things on the court. Kyrie is craftier. Kyrie is flashier. Kyrie is a better finisher. Kyrie is a big time playoff performer/more clutch. Kyrie is just better.

Again baseless assumptions backed up by nothing. Irving is more popular cause he plays with LBJ and has gone to the Finals multiple times. His stats are not better, actually IT has achieved more throughout his first 4 years in the league than Irving. TBD on whether Irving can do anything on his own now..

[Kaykoose]

I want to know how's Irving better than It or why is he? What has Irving done without LeBron? Irving has gas 2 major injuries while It so far has had 0.... Not cause I'm Cs fan but no stats actually suggest it's worth trading IT for Irving.

This is the problem with just looking at stats. There is a reason why one is an Olympian/Team USA type player, and the other isn't. They both can do similar things on the court. Kyrie is craftier. Kyrie is flashier. Kyrie is a better finisher. Kyrie is a big time playoff performer/more clutch. Kyrie is just better.

No, the problem isn't stats. The problem is agendas and biases. If Kyrie had advanced stats that floored IT across the board, a lot of posters like yourself would be citing them in this thread. The thing is, IT is significantly better than Kyrie in literally stat, so now posters who argue for Kyrie must go to nonsensical things like "well he's on team USA so he must be better!"

Having more ISO moves doesn't mean much when the other guy simply scores way more on better efficiency on the same shot attempts/usage.

[baldur]

Ante Zizic, Crowder and IT for Kyrie and Lebron.
No sure Danny Ainge would be OK to send Crowder for Lebron.

You are joking but this is almost how Danny ainge approaches the potential trades.

[AgentGreen]

IT has already proven that he can lead a team on his own, Irving yet has to prove that. He started competing with the arrival of Lebron and Love. Cavaliers weren't even near playoffs contention with Irving as the main guy on their team.

Boston was rebuilding and looked like a lottery team in 2015, but with the arrival of IT we started to climb the ladder and managed to get the 8th seed for playoff contention.

Both arent good defenders, but IT atleast puts effort on the defensive side and sets some good blocks when needed. He is a better defender than Kyrie because of his effort he puts on the D side. The lack of length and mismatches hurt sometimes but not that much really.

Irving is way overrated over here.. People just dont give IT enough credit because of his length.

[Devils Advocate]

Yeah - but that could be because their entire offense is geared around LeBron and they have no idea how to play as a team w/o him on the floor. Maybe Kyrie doesn't like this and wants to be somewhere where things aren't that way so he can grow his career and prove himself.

I hate when people use this excuse. Its stupid...

Why can't Kyrie drive and kick to all the same shooters spacing the floor like Lebron does. He just doesn't know how to run an offense plain and simple. He is a good iso player that gets no one else involved and is pretty streaky himself. So him running the show = no team success.

Keep in mind, Kyrie is one of those guys Lebron is able to kick it to the wing to, and since Lebron isn't the shooter Kyrie is let alone a great off-ball player, that's one less player to kick it to. Add in that you have TT out there with Shump bricking as well, and it's really not the same offense. Which is why he is usually in iso situations when Lebron isn't out there.

Wrong... dude just ISO's when he is on the floor with Lebron or not and fails to make the simple pass to open teammates. He just can't run an offense. One less player to kick it to shouldn't make such a huge difference. I'm sure you've seen the guy play a number of times so it should be clear he doesn't know how to run an offense, he just dribbles too much on his way to a tough pull up or acrobatic lay-up rarely looking to set up his teammates.

[Black Jack]

Ante Zizic, Crowder and IT for Kyrie and Lebron.
No sure Danny Ainge would be OK to send Crowder for Lebron.

I think Ainge would consider a straight up Crowder for LeBron swap but the Cavs would have to throw some sweeteners...maybe LeBron plus a first round pick and a second rounder for Crowder would seal the deal.

[Lalouie]

should the cavs??

[Winsome Gerbil]

should the cavs??

yeah, that's the flipside nobody is mentioning.

I say the C's don't do it for continuity/chemistry. But I say the Cavs CAN'T do it because IT is a selfish little ball dominant dude with absolutely no hope of being able to work with LeBron, or anybody else who needs the ball. You get all the problems of Kyrie in that spot, x2, and with less versatility and a hopeless defensive frame.

[kidco2]

Might as well turn the east into E-league when Kyrie head to Spurs and Lebron to LA in 2018.