Windhorst: Kyrie Irving asked to be traded last week (Spurs, Heat, Wolves, Knicks) Updt pg. 30

[Coachcavplaya23]

no hauls to be had... that market has dried up, that and the fact the Cavs have zero leverage

They have an all star locked up for 2 years on a good contract. They have leverage. Kyrie will prob resign given he wants to be main guy.

I think you're misinterpreting the situation... He wants away from that ownership. Lebron's gone next summer most likely, if what you think is true Kyrie would just wait out Lebron.

He wants away from Lebron. He is concerned with the future. He doesnt want to wait out Lebron. That means he has to spend more time with him. The ownership is not the problem.

[CoolD]

Cavs will not win the championship next year. You can already hand it to Golden State. Next year the talk will be about "where is LeBron going to end up?"

Which LeBron will end up leaving the Cavs.
Imagine if you are Kyrie and know this, how annoying is to stay in a situation that you are beholden to the King's decision.

He wants to get in front of it. He has leverage, LeBron in 2 or 3 years will be a lesser version of the current LeBron. Why should Kyrie have to deal with this, when LeBron is about go past his prime.

Even if the Cavs keep Kyrie, Kyrie has changed the narrative going into next year. It's no longer about LeBron, it will be about Kyrie. Smart move by Kyrie seeing a couple moves a head.

[Soulcatcher33]

It is really not about being #1. It is about living in LeBron's shadows. LeBron gets all the praise and no one on the team gets any credit.

It's definitely about that. We know that because he named spurs and twolves as destinations...which are both teams he wouldn't be the best player on. He'd be the most popular though and the one with the biggest limelight. Kyrie is a popular player and would be bigger than basically anyone besides Curry and Lebron on whichever team he is on. James is basically the Jordan of this era and will always be bigger than anyone else he plays with. As you said...Kyrie just wants to get out of his shadow.

[CoolD]

Why are so many "Cavs" fans **** on Kyrie right now? Anybody with common sense can see LeBron brings with him a soap opera of problems. LeBron is passive aggressive and he's a hypocrite. He'll crap all over his teammates for not trying hard, but willing to take a seat on the bench in the middle of the game just cuz.

Kyrie simply doesn't want his career to be orchestrated by LeBron, and he's willing to forgo a sure chance of reaching the playoffs and even the finals to pursue his dream his own way. Call it an ego trip or whatever, but it's at least refreshing that some guys won't gargle LeBron's nutsack.

Kyrie was willing to lead a young, rebuilding team and recruit stars to play with him. Then in 11 days it changed to whatever LeBron wants he gets. It's unfortunate that LeBron just wants old washed up shooters who play no defense and threw out every young prospect and draft pick to do so. This team was a joke in the finals despite having a great offense all year, and it only gets worse with age.

Anyways, Cavs fans should be happy Kyrie is leaving because if LeBron is as narcissistic as we all think, he'll stay in Cleveland to counter all the chatter of him to LA being a reason Kyrie wants out now.

For the simple fact that everybody is glossing over for some reason. HES UNDER CONTRACT.

Like I have said in 10 previous posts, not all Cavs fans would hate Kyrie if he just decided to go his separate way after his contract expired and he was a FA. His words and response would be 100% understandable at that junction. The fact that hes causing internal drama when he is smack dab in the middle of a 5 year deal he signed by demanding a trade away from a title contender is the frustrating part to Cavs fans.

HIS talent was a major reason why LeBron came back in the first place and now hes bolting because he has a equally large ego about his self worth as LeBron does basically ending the Cavs fans 5-7 year awesome window of championship runs prematurely at 3 years.

LeBron is going to leave next year. Your window closed the moment Kevin Durant went to Golden State. Kyrie just sees this before everyone else and being proactive about the situation.

[infintybeyond]

I want to know how's Irving better than It or why is he? What has Irving done without LeBron? Irving has gas 2 major injuries while It so far has had 0.... Not cause I'm Cs fan but no stats actually suggest it's worth trading IT for Irving.

This is the problem with just looking at stats. There is a reason why one is an Olympian/Team USA type player, and the other isn't. They both can do similar things on the court. Kyrie is craftier. Kyrie is flashier. Kyrie is a better finisher. Kyrie is a big time playoff performer/more clutch. Kyrie is just better.

No, the problem isn't stats. The problem is agendas and biases. If Kyrie had advanced stats that floored IT across the board, a lot of posters like yourself would be citing them in this thread. The thing is, IT is significantly better than Kyrie in literally stat, so now posters who argue for Kyrie must go to nonsensical things like "well he's on team USA so he must be better!"

Having more ISO moves doesn't mean much when the other guy simply scores way more on better efficiency on the same shot attempts/usage.

I have no agendas or biases. Kyrie and IT do the same things. It's just Kyrie is better. He performs better on the bigger stage as well. Boston's only win against CLE was with IT of the floor. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Why is being on the National Team nonsensical? That's, for the most part since 2008, the best the USA has to offer. Being on that team usually means you are elite for your position and in the NBA. I'm talking about key contributors like LBJ, Wade, KD, not the Michael Redd's of Team USA.

[vxmike]

I still have a difficult time seeing Houston give CP3 a massive deal to age 38 next summer when they're paying Harden mega-money too. Capela will need an extension this coming summer as well. CP3 for Kyrie makes so much sense for Houston and Cleveland. CP3 is better right now but Kyrie is way younger, cheaper, and his prime aligns much better with Harden's. CP3 is the win-now guy that Lebron surely wants.

Kyrie is a SG at heart and I think he's a better court fit with Harden.

[Seabass11]

Regarding the finals....lol okay..

Why are people excited that the Cavs are imploding? Despite this recent success, overall this franchise has been terribly unlucky, and yet people are excited that this typically unlucky franchise seems to be on the brink of disaster?

Its not all people. Its Lakers fans because they hate LeBron.

There are like 8-9 Lakers fans that specifically come in and derail every thread a Cavs player is mentioned in by just making troll comments like the one RingsDontLie above posted with no real constructive points for the sake of the conversation.

I for one am not hoping the cavs implode because I don't want Boston to have a free trip to the finals, but at the same time I am so tired of people using just laker fans as examples. There's been fans from alot of teams who have said pro/con things about this situation but that seems to go unnoticed. No one says anything when fans of other teams talk about kobe/magic or even ball. Yet if a Laker fan makes a comment oh no stop the presses. smh

I never thought there was any beef between LA and CLE but I have seen more Laker fans in threads just ripping on CLE. I've seen attacks on the fans, city, players and management...all seemingly from LA fans.

Not sure if your fellow fans just can't handle being temporarily irrelevant (we all know LA will rise again and CLE will be back at the bottom), or what but they feel the need to put us down while we're in free fall mode....

[Coachcavplaya23]

Why are so many "Cavs" fans **** on Kyrie right now? Anybody with common sense can see LeBron brings with him a soap opera of problems. LeBron is passive aggressive and he's a hypocrite. He'll crap all over his teammates for not trying hard, but willing to take a seat on the bench in the middle of the game just cuz.

Kyrie simply doesn't want his career to be orchestrated by LeBron, and he's willing to forgo a sure chance of reaching the playoffs and even the finals to pursue his dream his own way. Call it an ego trip or whatever, but it's at least refreshing that some guys won't gargle LeBron's nutsack.

Kyrie was willing to lead a young, rebuilding team and recruit stars to play with him. Then in 11 days it changed to whatever LeBron wants he gets. It's unfortunate that LeBron just wants old washed up shooters who play no defense and threw out every young prospect and draft pick to do so. This team was a joke in the finals despite having a great offense all year, and it only gets worse with age.

Anyways, Cavs fans should be happy Kyrie is leaving because if LeBron is as narcissistic as we all think, he'll stay in Cleveland to counter all the chatter of him to LA being a reason Kyrie wants out now.

For the simple fact that everybody is glossing over for some reason. HES UNDER CONTRACT.

Like I have said in 10 previous posts, not all Cavs fans would hate Kyrie if he just decided to go his separate way after his contract expired and he was a FA. His words and response would be 100% understandable at that junction. The fact that hes causing internal drama when he is smack dab in the middle of a 5 year deal he signed by demanding a trade away from a title contender is the frustrating part to Cavs fans.

HIS talent was a major reason why LeBron came back in the first place and now hes bolting because he has a equally large ego about his self worth as LeBron does basically ending the Cavs fans 5-7 year awesome window of championship runs prematurely at 3 years.

He hasn't caused any drama. He made the request not demand in a quiet fashion. This happened weeks ago. Lebron probably got his feeling hurts that Kyrie doesnt want to play with him. He handled it internally and quietly the way it should be done unlike Paul George. Lebron has a much worse ego than Kyrie has buddy.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I'm thinking there's a trade to be made between Milwaukee, Pheonix, and CLE where Irving ends up in MIL.

[BeatDaCavs420]

I am shocked not too many Celtic fans are saying IT is better than Irving and this trade would be dumb

Good Job guys!

You really like to show your jealousy towards Celtics.

[symbiotic]

Boston shouldn't splurge all their assets unless his name is Anthony Davis

[Edrees]

The funny thing is Kyrie is doing exactly what people wanted Kevin Durant to do. Why isn't he being celebrated as a hero? He wants a more difficult road to the finals to prove how good he is. He's the opposite of kevin durant, so everyone who trashed KD'd decision, welcome to your new favorite player.

The difference here is that KD could certainly have been the best player on a championship team, while that is definitely not the case with Kyrie.

The expectation for a Kyrie lead team the 7-8th seed while for KD it's a Finals appearance. That's a big difference in these sort of comparisons and conversations.

So if you're really really good you should go for the hardest road but if you're just really good you should take the easiest route? That's essentially the standard that is being set. Look I kind of get it but that still means people's respect for Kyrie should go up, based on what you say it just means that Kyrie is shouldn't be expected to take the hard route, but he should still be praised for it since it means he is more of a competitor.

[Bobalob]

This is a weird time to invoke "I told you so" when:
1) Nothing has actually happened
2) I'm not sure most people would characterize Fox as a HAUL
3) The prevailing opinion in the thread so far feels like the Kings should say no to such a proposal

The last 3 days i've been hearing 'Yea Kyire for Melo is good deal'

Meanwhile just today alone i've seen rumors of Kyrie trades lead by Fox, Kemba Walker, and Andrew Wiggins...

So, yea, this is a perfect time to say i told you so.

You don't seem to be discussing in good faith, so I'll bow out of this. There is a huge leap between the various things you're saying. I would agree Kyrie for Melo is broken in the other direction. Cleveland should/will get more than that. But there is a huge gap between that and a "haul". That sounds like the surprising deal that Denver got when dealing away Carmelo years ago. If they get someone like Fox, Walker, or Wiggins, I'd say they did fine under the circumstances. But any of those likely make them worse, and I wouldn't portray it like they're doing great.

None of these trades would be straight up. Maybe thats what you're thinking. I'm assuming the Cvss would construct any trade to cover themselves for the future but to also 'win now' and add a playe they would have wanted anyway. To atleast remain status quo. Which as much as a like Kyire wont be that hard only bc 1) the model of 3 guys doing all the work doesnt work, and 2) lebRon is that good that he doesnt need much help

Having said that, what i PERSONALLY would demand if teams are willign to let go of their centerpice would be as follows;

-Fox, Cauley Stein, and a future first (This is the most 'look to the future' of the options but Cauley Stein would have a huge impact immediately)
-Wiggins + filler (win now AND stay young and wiggins would immediately be a all star in the east)
-Walker + Batum or Kidd Gilchrist (walker an all star, batum likeoly an all star, MKG the type of defense to spell Bron)

Each of the scenarios above imo is a HAUL.

[AdagioPace]

one thing that's not mentioned is how IT is better than Irving at drawing fouls by a lot. He almost doubles Irving's FTr (.231) that is quite low for a "star".
Irving is too monothematic,and being at the top of "iso scoring" might lead people to think that he doesn't need to get better at other skills

[dautjazz]

People are overrating the hell out of young guards. Outside of Fultz and Ball, no one drafted within in the last 6 year is as good and/or has the ceiling to be substantially better than Irving.

Actually the last guards drafted unquestionably better than Irving are Harden and Curry in 2009 and perhaps Wall in 2010. no one since 2011 has been unquestionably better than Irving.

People are acting like developing your young Frank/Booker/Fox/etc will likely net you an Irving. LMAO.

Knicks should mortgage the house for Irving (anyone except for KP).

While true, there is a ton of value in a rookie because he's going to get paid in the neighborhood of 5.5M/yr, while Irving makes 18.8 and 20.1M over the next two years. Obviously there is a big gap in skilled they are currently, but there is lots of value in being able to have Fox for atleast 7 years since you can match contracts after a rookie contract, vs Irving who only has two years left.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

If Irving wants to be "the man," why would he go to Houston and continue being a second banana?

Maybe because that is perhaps fake news, and the reason he wants out is he doesn't want to be stuck on a team built for Lebron without Lebron. He's already been through that in his career.

[Scalabrine]

Kyrie is better and will age better but it's funny that neither are good defenders but only IT gets **** for it. IT tore up John Wall in the playoffs who is supposed to be a shutdown defender.

Kyrie Irving gets plenty of flack for being a poor defender. I have no dog in this fight.

Thomas is probably the best player the Cavs could get in a trade but there is no way to really match the salaries so it's just not going to happen.

[jg77]

Don't be surprised if the Cavs get some nice pieces for Kyrie. I wouldn't be shocked if the NBA is in on a trying to find a deal for the Cavs as well. The finals will be a foregone conclusion (already are) next year if nothing dramatic happens. I don't think that's ideal for the NBA so a conspiracy where they secretly find some sucker NBA team(s) to give up a haul for Kyrie would not surprise me one bit lol.

[Meeksology]

I kept tryin to tell people that the Cavs arent trading Kyrie for f'n Carmelo Anthony. They are goign to get a HAUL

Let the bidding war begin #toldyouso

This is a weird time to invoke "I told you so" when:
1) Nothing has actually happened
2) I'm not sure most people would characterize Fox as a HAUL
3) The prevailing opinion in the thread so far feels like the Kings should say no to such a proposal

The last 3 days i've been hearing 'Yea Kyire for Melo is good deal'

Meanwhile just today alone i've seen rumors of Kyrie trades lead by Fox, Kemba Walker, and Andrew Wiggins...

So, yea, this is a perfect time to say i told you so.

Nothing has happened yet. Far from the right time to say "I told you so"

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using RealGM mobile app

[Alex_De_Large]

7 years of difference is too much, if it was 4 i would say no. But i'll do it: The next 2 championships are for the Warriros, very difficult to beat that team right now.