Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[phrazbit]

No no no no... no. I don't want Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20144300/zach-lowe-kyrie-irving-cleveland-cavaliers-potential-trades-nba

Kyrie's trade request, even with all the uncertainty in Cleveland, is bizarre and wholly unique. Players simply do not request off of title teams, especially guys who are already given the offense freedom he enjoys (while taking almost no responsibility on defense). And there are a TON of red flags when it comes to the question of if Kyrie actually makes a team better, the evidence points to... no... he does not. He is a ball stopping chucker who does nothing to improve his teammates and plays putrid D.

He will not lure other stars here. They are not going to flock to a team that is winning 30-35 games and is led by a world class ball hog who forced his way off a contender because his top 5 usage rate wasn't high enough for his liking.

[SlovenianDragon]

No no no no... no. I don't want Kyrie.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20144300/zach-lowe-kyrie-irving-cleveland-cavaliers-potential-trades-nba

Kyrie's trade request, even with all the uncertainty in Cleveland, is bizarre and wholly unique. Players simply do not request off of title teams, especially guys who are already given the offense freedom he enjoys (while taking almost no responsibility on defense). And there are a TON of red flags when it comes to the question of if Kyrie actually makes a team better, the evidence points to... no... he does not. He is a ball stopping chucker who does nothing to improve his teammates and plays putrid D.

He will not lure other stars here. They are not going to flock to a team that is winning 30-35 games and is led by a world class ball hog who forced his way off a contender because his top 5 usage rate wasn't high enough for his liking.

Brandon Knight 2.0

[Shank]

Booker/Jackson UNTOUCHABLE for me.

Josh Jackson will be Butler/Leonard Esque IMO. I value JJ more than Booker.

McDonough has always talked about acquiring a disgruntled star I'm very afraid he deals JJ in a package for Kyrie.

And I think it's likely.... We had a deal in place for him before the draft right?

Then McDonough brings in James Jones (I'm assuming he's close with kyrie) To try to convince him to fully commit to suns when his current deal is up. If kyrie agrees to that. I think McDonough pulls the trigger.

[NBA Fiend]

The similarities are spooky, add the free throw differential and they are dead even. The defensive ratings are identical. How is that even possible? The man has at least a half foot over him and rips down a half a rebound more a game. Kyrie gets doubled up on VORP which is interesting.Yeah, I know ones taller and younger but if I recall Kyrie has had his injury issues. I guess one could make a case for Kyrie being more durable in the future because he's bigger. I just can't fathom McD would entertain the idea of trading Josh. I cannot and do not believe he would do such a thing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&y2=2017&player_id2=irvinky01&idx=players

[SlovenianDragon]

Tj warren last season if you look at his per 36 was a 17 PPG scorer on 50% FG how do some view him as just cannon fodder? overall he was 14 ppg on 50%....he was like in the top 30 players on shooting efficiency.

He doesn't even need the ball in his hands that's what makes him so great. He has a feel for the game. You NEEED guys like that.

We would effectively get worse if we trade him for Irving.

I cant understand why people value him so low? hes not flashy?

Can someone who voted yes to add warren to a trade like to come in here and actually share there beliefs as why he is a tradable asset?

[denial]

Tj warren last season if you look at his per 36 was a 17 PPG scorer on 50% FG how do some view him as just cannon fodder? overall he was 14 ppg on 50%....he was like in the top 30 players on shooting efficiency.

He doesn't even need the ball in his hands that's what makes him so great. He has a feel for the game. You NEEED guys like that.

We would effectively get worse if we trade him for Irving.

I cant understand why people value him so low? hes not flashy?

Can someone who voted yes to add warren to a trade like to come in here and actually share there beliefs as why he is a tradable asset?

I didn't vote but I think a lot of fans have not seen enough of warren to know how good he is. I only know he is good because I read this forum, honestly. It's hard to watch 82 games when you're playing bad basketball and for a while it seemed like warren barely played.
Whereas we have all seen Kyrie in many big games and it is just tempting.we have been losing so long. We have a great young core. It's tempting to want to go for that piece now.

I barely watched east bbal so I've really only seen Kyrie in playoffs. Yeah he played 1-on-1 but that's their thing.
What always impressed me the most was hearing him talk. He actually said something that kind of changed my life in a sense: "I'm not out here trying to prove the people who doubt me wrong. I'm trying to prove the people who do believe in me right."
That was profound for me. I had a chip on my shoulder my entire life and that one statement sort of fixed it.

So, I just like Kyrie. But I believe in our youth movement and our current path. I'm happy to pass on Kyrie and focus on our core as-is. I actually think great things happen when teams stay together and have a plan. I think our young guys are going to have a break out season as a a whole. So im whatever. I don't want to give up jj and I am definitely reluctant on tj

Edit: I'm confused now I think maybe it was actually oj mayo who said that quote. Anybody know? (in any case, my opinions about Kyrie remain)

[gaspar]

Could something like this works? Who needs to add/get value?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya8te5dg

Dude, you are REALLY obsessed with Knight, aren't you?

[Jdiddy701]

Kyrie Booker Jackson -- fun fun fun. McD needs to make it happen.


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[gaspar]

Cavs can go where the sun don't shine if they want Jackson.

Not that I will give them Jackson - but if we are giving Jackson
they are taking Knight, Dudley or Chandler too along with Bledsoe

and event that - do not trade Josh Jackson for Kyrie Irving

facilitate the trade - get Frank N - keep with the young guys. keep a veteran like Dudley around; maybe sign another if you move Chandler

I would say, if they want Jackson they have to take Knight. Bledsoe is off the table. And I probably still wouldn't do it.

[DaleyBlind]

Really?? you wouldn't add Warren to an Irving Deal. LOL I'm dead.

Just dont go around saying that in the General board so you dont get laughed at and labelled a homer

[Son of Ra]

Is Bledsoe, Warren & Miami 1st fair value for Irving? Absolutely.
Would I do it? Absolutely not. I just really, really hate Irving's game and I don't think it works in today's NBA if your goal is winning and not putting butts in the seats.
I hope we get in on the trade to facilitate and snag other assets though.

[Shank]

Lol imagine if Carmelo is dealt to Houston..

Then cavs have to choose between us and minny right? Who else can compete with these

Timberwolves Wiggins etc.
Suns Bledsoe etc.

No way cavs can receive Bledsoe and Wiggins in a 3 way

[Jdiddy701]

Cleveland trading for Wiggins is like the Suns trading for Isaiah Thomas. Just weird


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[NBA Fiend]

Irony. The first and the last pick.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_draft

[Shank]

Wiggins might be the only "blue chip young player" available. I pray Josh Jackson isn't dealt.

[sunskerr]

I would be pretty bummed if Josh Jackson was traded. We were, all of us - front office and fans alike - ecstatic when he fell to us at #4. It seems so perfect that he dropped to us and we have him and Booker now going forward. If those two pan out and even just one of Chriss or Bender develops properly we will be a great team again.

[Kerrsed]

I'd Trade Bledsoe and Heat '18 for Irving!! Giving up more for a 3+ Point differential w/ similar stats across the board and the same injury prone concerns and only 2.4 years younger would be foolish!!!!!

Cmon man, are your really going to try to factor in a 3+ point differential and act like it wouldnt be different if he wasnt here playing with the scrubby Suns? I mean he was playing next to Lebron james for christs sake!

Switch him and Bledsoe and Eric will be lucky to put up 20 PPG.

The funny thing is that DEFENSE is a major point people keep bringing up, but when you look at the advance stats, they show Bledsoe and Irving both rated the same with 112, and Irving BLOWING Bledsoe out of the water on offense with 116 vs 111.

PER36 stats of the two are very identical, with Bledsoe averaging about 2 more rebounds, but Irving dominating all the shooting percentages.

And once again people, that is while being stuck behind Lebron, where Bledsoe was our #1 option.

And the injury concerns are far far far different.

[lilfishi22]

I don't understand why people think having Irving on this team would suddenly make the team implode in on itself.

If we agree that the fair value would be Bledsoe, Warren and a Miami pick then what are we REALLY giving up for a multiple time all-star (in the East) and NBA champion? Warren, to me, is one of the most underrated young players in the league hampered by a mystery injury and a style and personality which doesn't muster much media attention. He's the one asset that has the most value to us long term. Bledsoe is a solid two way player who doesn't fit out core nor is he likely going to be with the team long term anyway.

So Warren and the pick (throw in Chriss there if you like) are really who we're giving up for Irving because Bledsoe, let's be honest, is not part of our #timeline. Is that really that much to give up?

From my view giving up Bledsoe and warren for irving we would get worse.

And Usually when you make a trade you want to get better.

Would we really?

I feel like on a longer term basis, we're a better team. Look at all the downstream impacts this could have. Irving is an exciting player, is proven in big moments, an NBA champion and having this kind of player on the team could very well attract other stars down the line.

Again, Warren is the only player you're really giving up because he's younger, fits our timeline and I really do like him as a complementary player. Will he have an impact in the same way Irving does from an on-court or marketing standpoint? I can confidently say he won't, not because I can see the future but because very very few players ever become a top 15-20 player in the league at 25 (who is only 1.5yrs older than TJ).

Warren is also due for a new deal after this season, so do you pay him $12-18m a year on top of paying Bledsoe his $14m a year? Or do you turn that into Kyrie who gets paid $20m a year?

The only risk to this is Kyrie leaving but I think that risk is factored into the value in what we give up.

[Kerrsed]

Lol imagine if Carmelo is dealt to Houston..

Then cavs have to choose between us and minny right? Who else can compete with these

Timberwolves Wiggins etc.
Suns Bledsoe etc.

No way cavs can receive Bledsoe and Wiggins in a 3 way

Denver.

Harris/Murray/Choice of Faried or Chandler/1st round pick.

[thamadkant]

I would only give up Jackson for a Anthony Davis package or a smaller package for Porzingis.

Guys, having a potential 2-way player... all rounder.... like Jackson is the way to go.