Steve Baller 1 on 1 with Woj

[QRich3]

Guy brags about using a pick to get Gallo but can't see that the pick we unnecessarily sent the Bucks could be used in a number of ways this offseason....all of them better than what it was used for - to ship out Dudley (let's not even talk how Doc dropped the ball with him to begin with).

Hey ho!
One less way to get better is the formula great franchises use.

So, I'm on record sh*tting all over the Dudley trade as one of the worst trades of the recent past in the whole league. But if you're gonna be willing to forgive Ballmer for his past missteps, how are you so unforgiving with Wohl/Doc for their newbie mistake of going over the hard cap because of Dudley's possible playoff bonus, and having to spend a pick in dumping him? Is it just a case of apologizing vs trying to save face? Or just going with the flow when it comes to good guy/bad guy?

And I haven't been following the whole conversation, but getting Gallinari for a 25-30th pick is a steal any way you look at it. Well, a steal in the sense that when you add a high level FA it's always a steal value-wise, even if you pay a pick. I can get with the sentiment of "draft picks are valuable"/"building through the draft is more easily sustainable". But the value of a late 1st pick and a borderline allstar in his prime is so far away that I find it silly to think about it twice.

I'm not Ranma or MTV.

I forgive Doc as a GM in that his missteps are because he was in over his head. It doesn't mean I'm willing to forget and let him call the shots anymore. I've been on the record multiple times saying that I think he is a good coach and I don't mind him staying on as coach if he's not in a GM role. Great. Lawrence Frank is calling the shots and has been. (I think we can do better but fine). Jerry West is in the fold. I like the situation we have as of right now.


Have I asked that Doc be fired? Sure. I think it is awkward culturally to strip someone of power and have them in a lesser role, particularly in Doc's case where the Clipper culture has turned somewhat sour. But hey, Budenholzer is stepping down and just being a coach. Cultures can change. I can see a potential turn around happening since we are moving on and going in a new direction.

Again, I am fine with where we are.


If you read the thread that questions Doc's work ethic, you'd see that while I have wanted to move on from Doc, I'm not interested in the smear campaign and the piling on the media is trying to do this offseason. I don't think Doc deserves it.

Edit:
I'm not against trading picks but I value them, development, and having assets that keep us flexible to make improvements to the team when need be. The Bucks pick could have been used to draft talent or to make a deal this offseason. We lost a chance to get better.
I'm not of the school of thought that we should nix the Gallo deal in order to keep that pick. I just wish we could have found a way to keep it in getting him.

My bad then, I get the feeling lately this whole place is turning into that. So I probably lumped you in when I should've read more carefully.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you on Doc, it'd be great if he just stepped down like Bud did and focused on what he's good at, wouldn't mind him fired if he doesn't.

I was saying on different thread recently that so much of this team's recent failures can be traced back to one single moment, and that was the Dudley trade. Don't do that trade (and don't sign Big Baby so you stay under the hard cap), you not only have a serviceable SF on a good contract, you have all your picks, and now the need to make panic moves for Lance and Jeff Green is a lot smaller. I am actually a bit bothered that no reporter has pressed them to clarify why on earth the did that trade. If they tell me we effed up, we were new and didn't know what we were doing, I'm fine with it. If they try to spin it as some sort of way to open the capspace to sign CDR while you have $2M in dead capspace for 5 years, I might lose my head and turn into one of the whiners.
The sad thing is they were so ahead of the pack when they got Redick and Dudley and turned the CP/BG duo into one of the most pace and space-y teams in the league, only to crap the bed like that one year later.

[og15]

Don't do that trade (and don't sign Big Baby so you stay under the hard cap), you not only have a serviceable SF on a good contract, you have all your picks, and now the need to make panic moves for Lance and Jeff Green is a lot smaller. I am actually a bit bothered that no reporter has pressed them to clarify why on earth the did that trade. If they tell me we effed up, we were new and didn't know what we were doing, I'm fine with it. If they try to spin it as some sort of way to open the capspace to sign CDR while you have $2M in dead capspace for 5 years, I might lose my head and turn into one of the whiners.
The sad thing is they were so ahead of the pack when they got Redick and Dudley and turned the CP/BG duo into one of the most pace and space-y teams in the league, only to crap the bed like that one year later.

http://podbay.fm/show/1065985281/e/1500831156?autostart=1

At 13:20, Ballmer talks about the previous decisions they made and how they were a bit shortsighted and they probably didn't think things through as well as they did. Still don't know what the thought process was with that trade, I talked about it recently that if you string all the assets together and see the end result, there was a huge waste.

Jared Dudley + 1st = Cap Space (CDR, Udoh, Big Baby)

Matt Barnes + Spencer Hawes + 1st = Jeff Green Rental

The Clippers got NOTHING to show for out of two 1st Round picks and three nice contracts of productive wings (if you add Jamal), you just can't do that. We've been saying for years, "turn Jamal into a SF", package him with a draft pick, etc. Now, imagine the team in 14-15 had these assets to offer in a trade for a player: Matt Barnes + Jared Dudley + Jamal Crawford + Two 1st Round Picks. Barnes was making like $3-4M, Dudley $4.3M and Crawford between $5-6M, and he wasn't even fully guaranteed every season. Any combination of those assets, what could the return have been?

[madmaxmedia]

As long as Ballmer is learning, that makes me feel better with our current org structure, especially with Jerry West as advisor.

It is a valid point that fortunately we didn't turn into the Brooklyn Nets West. At the same time we've made some really egregious trades the last few years, I don't care what players were or weren't available in the draft, or if none of the picks ultimately panned out. The Clippers have made some good later picks in previous years, including DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe. By continually trading away picks, we were basically knee-capping any real chance of becoming more than our Big 3, because the players we got in return were supplemental pieces (in best case scenario.) What happens if in 2008 we traded our 2nd round pick for Sasha Vujacic or some other random decent bench guy? The Spurs were ultimately able to leverage the 26th pick in 2008 (George Hill) for Kawhi Leonard. Yes that's a rarity, but it only happens if you actually try to find and develop young talent.

The Dudley trade was bad, I though the Jeff Green rental trade was worse.

[esqtvd]

As long as Ballmer is learning, that makes me feel better with our current org structure, especially with Jerry West as advisor.

It is a valid point that fortunately we didn't turn into the Brooklyn Nets West. At the same time we've made some really egregious trades the last few years, I don't care what players were or weren't available in the draft, or if none of the picks ultimately panned out. The Clippers have made some good later picks in previous years, including DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe. By continually trading away picks, we were basically knee-capping any real chance of becoming more than our Big 3, because the players we got in return were supplemental pieces (in best case scenario.) What happens if in 2008 we traded our 2nd round pick for Sasha Vujacic or some other random decent bench guy? The Spurs were ultimately able to leverage the 26th pick in 2008 (George Hill) for Kawhi Leonard. Yes that's a rarity, but it only happens if you actually try to find and develop young talent.

The Dudley trade was bad, I though the Jeff Green rental trade was worse.

Yah but the Spurs' last killer draft pick was Hill, and that was almost 10 years ago. And they were able to flip him for Kawhi only because of a stroke of luck that saw the Pacers already set at SF with Paul George and needing a PG. And the Spurs already had Tony Parker, so Hill was redundant anyway. Brilliant trade, but luck was still involved.

As for the Jeff Green "rental," it turned out that way only because CP and BG went down in quick succession. Green was playing adequately in that playoffs, and had we made a run he'd have contributed to it and it wouldn't have been the total waste that it was. As for the pick, Memphis already traded it for a couple picks in the 30s. I'd rather have them than not, but it's not like we gave away gold--the pick was lottery-protected. Besides, we just bought two picks in the late 30s for cash. Not as good, but not bad either. We're talking maybe 5 draft positions, hardly the difference between being a championship team and not.

As for Dudley, I was a huge critic from the very first preseason game. He did play injured and wasn't as bad as he seemed, but he still was pretty bad. I was willing to give him another chance but I think something might have been up with him being a clubhouse cancer or something, and that was the real reason for dumping him, damn the cost.

Even through this year, Dudley was still talkin' s*&!

Dudley was on the 'In the Zone' Podcast, hosted by Chris Broussard when he talked about how terrible the team chemistry was in Los Angeles. They would never hang out, never go out to eat together, and just the overall dysfunction was toxic. He went to go as far as to say that he'd bet money that the CP3-DJ-Blake core will never even make the WCF.
Link to podcast:

Watch on YouTube

[nickhx2]

As long as Ballmer is learning, that makes me feel better with our current org structure, especially with Jerry West as advisor.

It is a valid point that fortunately we didn't turn into the Brooklyn Nets West. At the same time we've made some really egregious trades the last few years, I don't care what players were or weren't available in the draft, or if none of the picks ultimately panned out. The Clippers have made some good later picks in previous years, including DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe. By continually trading away picks, we were basically knee-capping any real chance of becoming more than our Big 3, because the players we got in return were supplemental pieces (in best case scenario.) What happens if in 2008 we traded our 2nd round pick for Sasha Vujacic or some other random decent bench guy? The Spurs were ultimately able to leverage the 26th pick in 2008 (George Hill) for Kawhi Leonard. Yes that's a rarity, but it only happens if you actually try to find and develop young talent.

The Dudley trade was bad, I though the Jeff Green rental trade was worse.

yeah. i think most everyone understands the catastrophe that all was by now. but poo-pooing the dudley stuff is just kind of wasted energy for me, at this point. the one thing i really care about is whether ballmer is learning, and whether he will keep improving the organization going forward. so far it seems very much like that is his priority so i'm on board as long as it is.

sometimes i think about what the clippers would look like 10 years from now, or 20 years. will blake ever win a ring here? hard to say but more likely than not. but if ballmer holds true to making this organization a top tier one, even if it's not a team built around blake, eventually it'll be a team built around someone else. we will get there one day, because with ownership that truly cares, it's just inevitable.

[madmaxmedia]

Yah but the Spurs' last killer draft pick was Hill, and that was almost 10 years ago. And they were able to flip him for Kawhi only because of a stroke of luck that saw the Pacers already set at SF with Paul George and needing a PG. And the Spurs already had Tony Parker, so Hill was redundant anyway. Brilliant trade, but luck was still involved.

I don't think we're arguing as much as just discussing both sides of the same coin. But I just wanted to add that, yes, it was a serendipitous event for the Spurs to ultimately land Kawhi- but that's what can happen when you take your shots. That one pick changed the course of their franchise.

Lucky or not, that late draft pick was parlayed into their new superstar post Duncan, Parker, etc. Whereas we constantly traded our picks to try to get that vet that would put us 'over the top'. I think when you have a coach/GM, it's very easy for the team to sacrifice long-term potential for short-term gains.

[esqtvd]

Yah but the Spurs' last killer draft pick was Hill, and that was almost 10 years ago. And they were able to flip him for Kawhi only because of a stroke of luck that saw the Pacers already set at SF with Paul George and needing a PG. And the Spurs already had Tony Parker, so Hill was redundant anyway. Brilliant trade, but luck was still involved.

I don't think we're arguing as much as just discussing both sides of the same coin. But I just wanted to add that, yes, it was a serendipitous event for the Spurs to ultimately land Kawhi- but that's what can happen when you take your shots. That one pick changed the course of their franchise.

Lucky or not, that late draft pick was parlayed into their new superstar post Duncan, Parker, etc. Whereas we constantly traded our picks to try to get that vet that would put us 'over the top'. I think when you have a coach/GM, it's very easy for the team to sacrifice long-term potential for short-term gains.

But George Hill wasn't just a "pick," he was a player, a longshot who had already come in and therefore had enough value to exchange for the 11th pick. And if you look at the Spurs--the presumed gold standard for clever drafting--they haven't done anything like Hill since 2008.

So yeah, something like 1 in 10 of those late picks comes in and I would certainly allow that it's better to have them than not have them. But we had the CP-BG window and hey, we took our shot. Now that we're really not a top 5 team anymore, that strategy and that type of gamble is not as defensible--although we did just spend another one for Gallo...

[madmaxmedia]

Put it this way- had the Spurs traded that very late first in 2008 for 2008 version of Jared Dudley, where would the Spurs be now? I mean you keep saying they were so lucky, they're bad at drafting...and yet they have Kawhi today because of it. Yes, it did take 2 serendipitous moves in a row- drafting Hill to begin with, and then flipping Hill for Leonard. My only point is that good things can happen with later picks, even if unlikely. They have SOME value with regards to the future.

Trading a pick for Gallo is more defensible to me in that we also dumped Jamal Crawford's contract, so yeah it's not all black and white to me either. But it's my opinion that the Clipper roster management has been very bad the last few seasons under Doc, that's all. If you think it has been good (or just not as bad as I think), that's fine too.

[esqtvd]

Put it this way- had the Spurs traded that very late first in 2008 for 2008 version of Jared Dudley, where would the Spurs be now? I mean you keep saying they were so lucky, they're bad at drafting...and yet they have Kawhi today because of it. Yes, it did take 2 serendipitous moves in a row- drafting Hill to begin with, and then flipping Hill for Leonard. My only point is that good things can happen with later picks, even if unlikely. They have SOME value with regards to the future.

Trading a pick for Gallo is more defensible to me in that we also dumped Jamal Crawford's contract, so yeah it's not all black and white to me either. But it's my opinion that the Clipper roster management has been very bad the last few seasons under Doc, that's all. If you think it has been good (or just not as bad as I think), that's fine too.

Well, I think the options were severely limited, is all. The sword of Damocles was hanging over the past 2 seasons, the CP and BG opt-outs. As it turns out we didn't keep Chris anyway but certainly the message was sent that we were not wasting his prime preparing for a future that may never come, a future that really didn't involve him. And that included signing Jamal to the extra year too, which was also a "big happy family" move, which IMO the DJ re-signing was too.

Yes, there have been blinders on, but the only realistic option was to double down on the CP-BG window. As it turned out, it was a losing hand regardless of what was done and wasn't done. We needed a miracle like the Kawhi deal and Doc didn't come up with one. But the Spurs haven't come up with another one either. The only miracles out there have been LeBron returning home and the 2nd best player in creation deciding to join his God Buddies up in Oakland.

I've never been against firing Doc, but I've been unconvinced the alternatives were any better. A lot of folks were lamenting losing Olshey, but he's made a bloody mess of the sal cap up in Portland. Right now, adding Jerry West to a middling front office is the best of all worlds. The Clips also replaced the entire scouting staff in September 2016, and added development guru John Welch as well. Things are not the same as when Doc took over the Donald Sterling operation, historically the worst in the business.

Doc might still suck, mind you.

[madmaxmedia]

I'm with you on all those points- I do understand the rationale behind doubling down on the CP-BG window. I'm also unconvinced there have been any obviously better alternatives to Doc the coach.

[DLaren]

Watch on YouTube

[JGOJustin]

Put it this way- had the Spurs traded that very late first in 2008 for 2008 version of Jared Dudley, where would the Spurs be now? I mean you keep saying they were so lucky, they're bad at drafting...and yet they have Kawhi today because of it. Yes, it did take 2 serendipitous moves in a row- drafting Hill to begin with, and then flipping Hill for Leonard. My only point is that good things can happen with later picks, even if unlikely. They have SOME value with regards to the future.

Trading a pick for Gallo is more defensible to me in that we also dumped Jamal Crawford's contract, so yeah it's not all black and white to me either. But it's my opinion that the Clipper roster management has been very bad the last few seasons under Doc, that's all. If you think it has been good (or just not as bad as I think), that's fine too.

Well, I think the options were severely limited, is all. The sword of Damocles was hanging over the past 2 seasons, the CP and BG opt-outs. As it turns out we didn't keep Chris anyway but certainly the message was sent that we were not wasting his prime preparing for a future that may never come, a future that really didn't involve him. And that included signing Jamal to the extra year too, which was also a "big happy family" move, which IMO the DJ re-signing was too.

Yes, there have been blinders on, but the only realistic option was to double down on the CP-BG window. As it turned out, it was a losing hand regardless of what was done and wasn't done. We needed a miracle like the Kawhi deal and Doc didn't come up with one. But the Spurs haven't come up with another one either. The only miracles out there have been LeBron returning home and the 2nd best player in creation deciding to join his God Buddies up in Oakland.

I've never been against firing Doc, but I've been unconvinced the alternatives were any better. A lot of folks were lamenting losing Olshey, but he's made a bloody mess of the sal cap up in Portland. Right now, adding Jerry West to a middling front office is the best of all worlds. The Clips also replaced the entire scouting staff in September 2016, and added development guru John Welch as well. Things are not the same as when Doc took over the Donald Sterling operation, historically the worst in the business.

Doc might still suck, mind you.

Well said my man.

[JGOJustin]

As i've said on this board before,hail mary's and miracles with late draft picks aside, it was always going to be tough for LAC to fill out the roster with the deals they had in place with Blake, DJ, and CP.

At the end of the day, your roster will never be perfect, it'll have glaring holes. GSW's roster does, Cle's roster does, The way the salary cap works in the NBA functions for this to happen. The difference is, is that Lebron James, Kyrie Irving, KD Steph Draymond, Klay, etc. are good enough to override the roster's weak spots in spectacular fashion.

Blake, CP, and DJ were not those guys, and that's an issue when they get paid like they are. Are there things doc could have done better? Sure. The dudley trade is an eyesore, the 1st rounder given away in the jeff green deal was pure panic, but at the end of the day those moves don't matter NEARLY as much if CP/Blake/DJ together performed up to the expectations that their salaries suggest.

When they don't, you have to make up for it and that is when you start overextending guys and having guys like JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, Luc Mbah Amoute, etc. having roles on the team that are probably bigger than their talent and ability would suggest and that wouldn't be necessary if Blake/CP/DJ were ALL all the elite talents that we needed them to be to win big.

[esqtvd]

As i've said on this board before,hail mary's and miracles with late draft picks aside, it was always going to be tough for LAC to fill out the roster with the deals they had in place with Blake, DJ, and CP.

At the end of the day, your roster will never be perfect, it'll have glaring holes. GSW's roster does, Cle's roster does, The way the salary cap works in the NBA functions for this to happen. The difference is, is that Lebron James, Kyrie Irving, KD Steph Draymond, Klay, etc. are good enough to override the roster's weak spots in spectacular fashion.

Blake, CP, and DJ were not those guys, and that's an issue when they get paid like they are. Are there things doc could have done better? Sure. The dudley trade is an eyesore, the 1st rounder given away in the jeff green deal was pure panic, but at the end of the day those moves don't matter NEARLY as much if CP/Blake/DJ together performed up to the expectations that their salaries suggest.

When they don't, you have to make up for it and that is when you start overextending guys and having guys like JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, Luc Mbah Amoute, etc. having roles on the team that are probably bigger than their talent and ability would suggest and that wouldn't be necessary if Blake/CP/DJ were ALL all the elite talents that we needed them to be to win big.

When the chips were down, Chris Paul dribbled the ball off his leg. Chris is my favorite Clipper of all time, even my favorite sportsman of all time. First-ballot Hall of Famer. Classiest guy ever, and the NBA Players Assn elected him their president. Twice. I admire him as a person so much. Brought the kids into the locker room, made the Clippers a family scene.


But he dribbled the ball off his leg. Chris--and let's face it Blake--not to mention DJ and the rest of our cast for the past 5 years, are simply not Top 10 all-timers. Not Top 20. 50 of the past 40 championships were won with LeBron, Steph, Duncan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Jordan, and Magic and Bird in the decade before those. And now Durant, who has overturned the chessboard.

Blake and even Chris are not in the same paragraph with those guys. They had their chance--and we gave them their chance--but they dribbled the ball off their leg.

His critics wave away Doc's complaint that with CP/BG/DJ being paid at top market value, he had no room under the sal cap to do anything significant. Oh, and BTW, 3 of our next six 2nd rounders were already traded away by previous GMs before Doc even got here.

You could look it up.

I did look it up, to see if Doc's bull was bull or if it had some reality to it.

Well, it's bull, but it has a lot of reality to it. He guessed wrong on Dudley, Hawes, Stephenson and JeffG, but they were all part of the same extended gamble, a chain of fools triggered like dominoes by no room under the sal cap. If he actually had some money to sign a decent FA, or had something decent to trade, Doc would not have targeted any of those mooks. This was thrift store ****, because that was Doc's budget.

Collison, Aldridge, Felton and Speights were thrift store **** too. Turned out way-OK.

Doc din't come up with any miracles, and I think GM's are in the miracle business. That wins championships, because if you noticed when I posted the Spurs' draft list of the past 10 years, there are no more miracles on it.


I'm not defending Doc except to say I don't see anyone out there who did any better. [John Hammond.]

I've still been following my hometown Sixers through the horror of the past few years but Hinkie just acquired draft picks--he didn't color outside the lines and find anyone. Ainge has been stacking up draft picks but last year's East Coast Finals Celtics team would have struggled with the Jazz.

[And I think his new max-salary acquisition Gordon Hayward is garbage but that's another story... ]

[JGOJustin]

As i've said on this board before,hail mary's and miracles with late draft picks aside, it was always going to be tough for LAC to fill out the roster with the deals they had in place with Blake, DJ, and CP.

At the end of the day, your roster will never be perfect, it'll have glaring holes. GSW's roster does, Cle's roster does, The way the salary cap works in the NBA functions for this to happen. The difference is, is that Lebron James, Kyrie Irving, KD Steph Draymond, Klay, etc. are good enough to override the roster's weak spots in spectacular fashion.

Blake, CP, and DJ were not those guys, and that's an issue when they get paid like they are. Are there things doc could have done better? Sure. The dudley trade is an eyesore, the 1st rounder given away in the jeff green deal was pure panic, but at the end of the day those moves don't matter NEARLY as much if CP/Blake/DJ together performed up to the expectations that their salaries suggest.

When they don't, you have to make up for it and that is when you start overextending guys and having guys like JJ Redick, Jamal Crawford, Luc Mbah Amoute, etc. having roles on the team that are probably bigger than their talent and ability would suggest and that wouldn't be necessary if Blake/CP/DJ were ALL all the elite talents that we needed them to be to win big.

When the chips were down, Chris Paul dribbled the ball off his leg. Chris is my favorite Clipper of all time, even my favorite sportsman of all time. First-ballot Hall of Famer. Classiest guy ever, and the NBA Players Assn elected him their president. Twice. I admire him as a person so much. Brought the kids into the locker room, made the Clippers a family scene.


But he dribbled the ball off his leg. Chris--and let's face it Blake--not to mention DJ and the rest of our cast for the past 5 years, are simply not Top 10 all-timers. Not Top 20. 50 of the past 40 championships were won with LeBron, Steph, Duncan, Kobe, Olajuwon, Jordan, and Magic and Bird in the decade before those. And now Durant, who has overturned the chessboard.

Blake and even Chris are not in the same paragraph with those guys. They had their chance--and we gave them their chance--but they dribbled the ball off their leg.

His critics wave away Doc's complaint that with CP/BG/DJ being paid at top market value, he had no room under the sal cap to do anything significant. Oh, and BTW, 3 of our next six 2nd rounders were already traded away by previous GMs before Doc even got here.

You could look it up.

I did look it up, to see if Doc's bull was bull or if it had some reality to it.

Well, it's bull, but it has a lot of reality to it. He guessed wrong on Dudley, Hawes, Stephenson and JeffG, but they were all part of the same extended gamble, a chain of fools triggered like dominoes by no room under the sal cap. If he actually had some money to sign a decent FA, or had something decent to trade, Doc would not have targeted any of those mooks. This was thrift store ****, because that was Doc's budget.

Collison, Aldridge, Felton and Speights were thrift store **** too. Turned out way-OK.

Doc din't come up with any miracles, and I think GM's are in the miracle business. That wins championships, because if you noticed when I posted the Spurs' draft list of the past 10 years, there are no more miracles on it.


I'm not defending Doc except to say I don't see anyone out there who did any better. [John Hammond.]

I've still been following my hometown Sixers through the horror of the past few years but Hinkie just acquired draft picks--he didn't color outside the lines and find anyone. Ainge has been stacking up draft picks but last year's East Coast Finals Celtics team would have struggled with the Jazz.

[And I think his new max-salary acquisition Gordon Hayward is garbage but that's another story... ]

I agree with everything you said. Our big 3 not being championship caliber but being paid like it hampered our franchise.

At the end of the day though, Chris Paul doesn't dribble the ball off his leg in those moments if the ball could go to Blake Griffin instead and that captures maybe the biggest crime in the CP era.

Injuries, roster construction, his own ineptness, whatever it was, Blake's inability to become our Kevin Durant, our Lebron James had a tremendous trickle down effect. Chris Paul as you said is a First Ballot HoF'er, the best clipper ever...but he shouldn't have been still better than Blake Griffin in 2017 but he was. The 6'10 uber athletic power forward who can pass, dribble etc. couldn't stay on the floor and was a mental midget more often than we would like. He wasn't our best player, but the 6ft pg was.

I do believe that pairing Blake with Chris, DJ, JJ, and Jamal marginalized his potential as a basketball player and stunted his growth individually a bit, but regardless he wasn't our best player and that overextended everyone and made everyone else's roles larger than they should of been, including Chris Paul.

[madmaxmedia]

Each of those players is roughly worth the money the make, I don't consider any of them 'overpaid'. The teams winning chips generally have superstar players who are actually worth more than their contract (but are not allowed to make more), or have significant contributors on rookie contracts that have huge ROI as well. We had neither, as well as that Big 3 not being a synergistic combination. We were always roughly equal to the sum of our parts, but rarely more.

Execution-wise, I don't disagree with most of these points, on their own most of the trades were justifiable. But it's a very slippery slope that we went down, and I think most all of us saw that coming as well. At some point when it was too late, we were definitely throwing good money after bad. And then when each succeeding bet turned up a loser, we tried to make it all back up the next offseason with another short-term gain/long term loss move. I think my biggest complaint about the Jeff Green trade was that we had no chance at a title, and Jeff Green was simply not going to move that needle, so why trade a 1st for a mid-season rental?

The final straw for me was not even so much the trading of picks, it was re-signing Jamal Crawford and Wesley Johnson to those ridiculous contracts, that ensured going forward we were going to continually pay more and more, for diminishing returns. Especially this offseason, where we would have had an even higher payroll with repeater tax had we re-signed both Blake and Chris (without even getting Reddick back who was a significant contributor despite his faults.)

I don't think you can quite argue that "we had no choice", but once that choice was made the path unfolded as it did (and didn't work out for reasons we have all discussed.) I'm looking forward to this season more than I have in awhile, not because I'm expecting to get further, but because we we're finally changing course- because we were forced into it (also, subjectively, I stopped enjoying watching Chris Paul play.)

[madmaxmedia]

Injuries, roster construction, his own ineptness, whatever it was, Blake's inability to become our Kevin Durant, our Lebron James had a tremendous trickle down effect. Chris Paul as you said is a First Ballot HoF'er, the best clipper ever...but he shouldn't have been still better than Blake Griffin in 2017 but he was. The 6'10 uber athletic power forward who can pass, dribble etc. couldn't stay on the floor and was a mental midget more often than we would like. He wasn't our best player, but the 6ft pg was.

I do believe that pairing Blake with Chris, DJ, JJ, and Jamal marginalized his potential as a basketball player and stunted his growth individually a bit, but regardless he wasn't our best player and that overextended everyone and made everyone else's roles larger than they should of been, including Chris Paul.

I think if Blake had Elton Brand's wingspan, everything changes.

[JGOJustin]

Injuries, roster construction, his own ineptness, whatever it was, Blake's inability to become our Kevin Durant, our Lebron James had a tremendous trickle down effect. Chris Paul as you said is a First Ballot HoF'er, the best clipper ever...but he shouldn't have been still better than Blake Griffin in 2017 but he was. The 6'10 uber athletic power forward who can pass, dribble etc. couldn't stay on the floor and was a mental midget more often than we would like. He wasn't our best player, but the 6ft pg was.

I do believe that pairing Blake with Chris, DJ, JJ, and Jamal marginalized his potential as a basketball player and stunted his growth individually a bit, but regardless he wasn't our best player and that overextended everyone and made everyone else's roles larger than they should of been, including Chris Paul.

I think if Blake had Elton Brand's wingspan, everything changes.

perhaps

But i'm not all out on Blake. He was really good during certain parts of the season. Like ELITE level good. February, end of the year he finished on a tear, he's still a really good basketball player and if he can stay healthy, he can be that top 5 player that he was projected to be. 25/10/6 is very reasonable IMO and if he does that for like 70 games, LAC will be in a great position.

[madmaxmedia]

http://www.makemetaller.org/index.php?topic=2101.0

Yes! There is certainly some pain involved in arm lengthening (LL), but it most cases the pain is manageable using painkillers and therapies. For an increase of 2.5cm (25mm) a normal, healthy adult should expect the whole process to take about 2 - 3 months from operation, to being able to use their arms unaided again.

Some people will take longer. For those who are particularly fit, healthy and have a high pain tolerance, it may be possible to do it more quickly.

[nickhx2]

i heard the lead singer of weezer did the heightening thing.