Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[gaspar]

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[gaspar]

A good lesson why keeping your so-so players at all costs is not a good idea. I'm looking at you, Alex Len and TJ Warren.

[SkinnyOMiller]

Eric Bledsoe 21/5/6

Kyrie Irving 25/3/6

Why would anyone think that we would get so much better with Irving is beyond me they pretty much do the same thing. Not only that but people are saying to throw in Warren who is a good player. So therefore if that trade went down statistically we would get worse. And then just to **** all over the suns throw a pick in there as well....

gtfoooooooooooooooooo

I'm surprised how many people seem to think Bledsoe is on Irving's level. Looking at numbers to come up with your conclusion is a risky choice. Irving is light years ahrad of Bledsoe offensively, and despite Bledsoe definitely being better defensively, Bledsoe has slipped considerably in his defensive chops. Hes not the lock down defender he was once touted to be.

Dont get me wrong, Bledsoe is a nice player. But he is not the caliber of Irving. And its really not close. Keep in mind Irving was playing alot side one of the most ball dominant players in the league.

The problem is that the numbers show that Cleveland went into the dumpster anytime LeBron was off the floor, even when Irving was playing with Love at the same time. As much as you argue that people are overrating Bledsoe, which is a fair point, its become clear that many are overrating Irving as well. He's basically a bigger Isaiah Thomas, a guy who can score well but gives you little value as a passer or defender.

Forget his gaudy per-game stats and highlight-reel plays from the NBA Finals. There are numbers that should really concern any team that trades for him. The Cavs were minus-120 in 635 minutes with Kyrie on and LeBron off last season, and nearly half of those minutes (312) came with Kevin Love. Tyronn Lue could hardly afford to take LeBron off the floor in the playoffs: Their net rating plummeted from plus-13.6 with him to minus-13.8 without him. The Cavs had three All-Stars, yet were as close to a one-man team as they could be. Kyrie ranked 40th in assist percentage and 71st in defensive RPM among NBA point guards, and if he couldn’t be bothered to play defense or share the ball when he was contending for a title, what is he going to do on a team that will struggle to crack .500? No matter how many points a backcourt of Kyrie and Booker score, they might give up just as many on the other end of the floor.

[JoRain]

Didn't Nets made that ridiculous offer sheet last year to Crabbe? now eating it anyway.

[RaisingArizona]

Why did the poll change from Warren to Jackson?

[8on]

Why did the poll change from Warren to Jackson?

That, and I can't change my vote

[Villalobos]

Now the Nets can't offer a horrible contract to Warren next year.

Spoiler:

I think?

[gaspar]

Didn't Nets made that ridiculous offer sheet last year to Crabbe? now eating it anyway.

Well, at least Crabbe waived his trade bonus and they traded useless Nicholson, so they are essentially paying him $12M per year. Not great, but not THAT bad.

[Kerrsed]

What do you guys think of this trade...

Cavs get: Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Miami's 1st round pick (possibly more)
Kings get: Kyrie Irving
Suns get: De'Aaron Fox


Not a rumor or something that's being talked about.. just seeing if it's something that the Suns fan base likes

I'd so it in a second and never think twice. We get our defensive PG of the future who was the #5 pick in a great draft, all for our PG of the past, a 6th man, and what seems to be non lotto pick (while keeping our own).

[JJ13]

IMO there is no way we trade Jackson. We JUST held a press conference where Sarver and McD committed to building through draft and FA, and taking time to invest in player development. They see Josh as a steal in the draft, up there as a top 2 pick. Guessing we explored Bled+#4 for Kyrie before we knew Jackson would drop. Completely ridiculous to think we'd now include Josh PLUS a pick. My guess is that McD will hold the line at Bledsoe + one of warren, chriss or Bender...and potentially Miami pick next year. That's it. That's all I would do for Kyrie.

[King4Day]

What do you guys think of this trade...

Cavs get: Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Miami's 1st round pick (possibly more)
Kings get: Kyrie Irving
Suns get: De'Aaron Fox


Not a rumor or something that's being talked about.. just seeing if it's something that the Suns fan base likes

I'd be interested but I really want Fox. I'm scared of paying Bledsoe and Warren a crap ton of money.
We'd then have 2 guys who can become elite if they fix their shooting...or role players if they don't.
We're in the era of needing to take chances. That's a lot to give up but might be worth it.

[AtheJ415]

I think that is too much to give up for Fox. I am not convinced Fox's upside is even higher than Warren's, let alone to also include Bledsoe and the Miami first.

Warren was our best player for much of last year. If you remove his weird head injury stats then he is an efficient scorer, average defender who improved in a number of ways over his time here.

I would trade Bledsoe for Fox for age/salary reasons. The Miami pick I would be less likely to include because it could very well net us a top 2 PG in next year's draft on its own.

Bledsoe and a pick with added protection (lottery protected), then sure. Otherwise, I say no.

[phrazbit]

I want some people to be honest with themselves here.

Take Bledsoe and (probably) Jackson off the team, put Kyrie on. Does that team compete? Is that team even a playoff team? Even if you really really like Kyrie the answer to the first question is heeeeeeell no, the answer to the 2nd is; probably not.

If you trade for him... that is you're team. The idea that he is going to lure another star is really far fetched for a lot of reasons. Chief of them being a superstar isn't going to be eager to join a 35 win team being led by a guy who shots 20 times per game and just forced his way off a title contender because his top 5 usage rate wasn't enough for his liking.

Also, I say probably Jackson because I doubt Cleveland has any interest at all in Warren. Cleveland will not be keen on dropping 15 mil (over 30 mil with their lux tax) to keep him next summer.

[Kerrsed]

#BurtWatch2017

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[8on]

I want some people to be honest with themselves here.

Take Bledsoe and (probably) Jackson off the team, put Kyrie on. Does that team compete? Is that team even a playoff team? Even if you really really like Kyrie the answer to the first question is heeeeeeell no, the answer to the 2nd is; probably not.

If you trade for him... that is you're team. The idea that he is going to lure another star is really far fetched for a lot of reasons. Chief of them being a superstar isn't going to be eager to join a 35 win team being led by a guy who shots 20 times per game and just forced his way off a title contender because his top 5 usage rate wasn't enough for his liking.

Also, I say probably Jackson because I doubt Cleveland has any interest at all in Warren. Cleveland will not be keen on dropping 15 mil (over 30 mil with their lux tax) to keep him next summer.

Yeah, you're probably right. All right, I give up.

EDIT: Nope, I don't give up. Warren's a young guy. I wouldn't extend him if I'm Phoenix because we have Jackson, and they both aren't great shooters (yet), but I would definitely extend him if I'm Cleveland. He's definitely worth $12M with all the contracts being bandied about lately.

[JJ13]

#BurtWatch2017

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Had never heard of this guy, but his tweets are epic. Offering Morey hookers and cigars if he pulled of Cousins trade. My new favorite follow, thanks Kerrsed!

[phrazbit]

The funny thing is that DEFENSE is a major point people keep bringing up, but when you look at the advance stats, they show Bledsoe and Irving both rated the same with 112, and Irving BLOWING Bledsoe out of the water on offense with 116 vs 111.

PER36 stats of the two are very identical, with Bledsoe averaging about 2 more rebounds, but Irving dominating all the shooting percentages.

That isn't how those stats really work...

Defensive rating is merely "team points allowed per 100 possessions with that player on the court". So, Cleveland is giving up 112 per 100 possessions with Irving... despite him playing alongside some solid defenders. Meanwhile the Suns give up slightly less with Bledsoe out there... playing along side a bunch of kids who can't drink and still don't know where to stand half the time.

So, if anything those stats paint Bledsoe in a really positive light. Overall the Suns play other teams to a near standstill with him on the court, despite the youth and questionable talent he is surrounded by.

And I agree with what others pointed out. You put Bledsoe on Cleveland and his efficiency will likely go up. And... on the same note, you put Kyrie here and his efficiency will almost certainly go down.

Merely swapping Bledsoe for Irving straight up... statistically it is hard to claim it improves us at all. I would agree that Kyrie is a far more gifted talent than Bledsoe, but basketball is more than just 1 on 1 offense, it is a team game with 5 guys and 5 guys that have to make an effort on both ends.

[Jarlaxle0204]

What do you guys think of this trade...

Cavs get: Eric Bledsoe, TJ Warren and Miami's 1st round pick (possibly more)
Kings get: Kyrie Irving
Suns get: De'Aaron Fox


Not a rumor or something that's being talked about.. just seeing if it's something that the Suns fan base likes

This is the kind of trade we really need to make much more than for Irving in my opinion. I would be sooooo happy if this happened as I'm a big fan of Fox.

I don't think much of the Miami pick this year. That Miami team is most likely going to be around a 4 or 5 seed in the east next year. That means it's probably a pick in the early 20's. Not that big of a deal to get our PG of the future.

Most here acknowledge that Bledsoe is not in our future plans and are afraid to commit to him due to the amount he will demand, his age, and his injury history.

The real question is do you think that TJ Warren will be a starter on this team in two years? I think that's where a lot of the difference of opinion is on Warren. I like Warren a lot. I think he's a good player. Even if he stays on this team and signs a somewhat large contract, I don't think he'll be starting over Jackson in two years time. I think he will this year but I think Jackson compliments our team much better. I personally think that eventually Bender will be our starting PF (unless Chris continues to surprise me or Bender winds up playing the 5). I think Warren would be very good in a 6th man role but I also think we could find someone else to fill in off the bench. Bench players are easier to come by and adding him into a package for Fox really wouldn't give me much pause.

Fox/Ulis
Booker/Knight/Reed
Jackson/DJJ
Bender/Chris/Dudley
Chandler/Len/Williams

Looks good to me and allows us to continue developing the youth while almost assuring us a top 5 pick next year to fill out the center position. After that, start spending on free agents and make any necessary trades to round out the roster or upgrade based on how they develop.

[matt131]

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Heven't listened, just putting it out there

[Phystic]

Eric Bledsoe 21/5/6

Kyrie Irving 25/3/6

Why would anyone think that we would get so much better with Irving is beyond me they pretty much do the same thing. Not only that but people are saying to throw in Warren who is a good player. So therefore if that trade went down statistically we would get worse. And then just to **** all over the suns throw a pick in there as well....

gtfoooooooooooooooooo

I'm surprised how many people seem to think Bledsoe is on Irving's level. Looking at numbers to come up with your conclusion is a risky choice. Irving is light years ahrad of Bledsoe offensively, and despite Bledsoe definitely being better defensively, Bledsoe has slipped considerably in his defensive chops. Hes not the lock down defender he was once touted to be.

Dont get me wrong, Bledsoe is a nice player. But he is not the caliber of Irving. And its really not close. Keep in mind Irving was playing alot side one of the most ball dominant players in the league.

The problem is that the numbers show that Cleveland went into the dumpster anytime LeBron was off the floor, even when Irving was playing with Love at the same time. As much as you argue that people are overrating Bledsoe, which is a fair point, its become clear that many are overrating Irving as well. He's basically a bigger Isaiah Thomas, a guy who can score well but gives you little value as a passer or defender.

Forget his gaudy per-game stats and highlight-reel plays from the NBA Finals. There are numbers that should really concern any team that trades for him. The Cavs were minus-120 in 635 minutes with Kyrie on and LeBron off last season, and nearly half of those minutes (312) came with Kevin Love. Tyronn Lue could hardly afford to take LeBron off the floor in the playoffs: Their net rating plummeted from plus-13.6 with him to minus-13.8 without him. The Cavs had three All-Stars, yet were as close to a one-man team as they could be. Kyrie ranked 40th in assist percentage and 71st in defensive RPM among NBA point guards, and if he couldn’t be bothered to play defense or share the ball when he was contending for a title, what is he going to do on a team that will struggle to crack .500? No matter how many points a backcourt of Kyrie and Booker score, they might give up just as many on the other end of the floor.

oh I agree, Irving's horrible at half the game. just terrible. But I agree with many that Cle struggling lebron out shouldn't fall squarely on Irving. Most teams struggle when their star player sits. Because the team is built around them, players are used to their predetermined roles. Suddenly having to go from scorer to facilitator isn't something everyone is comfortable in doing.

To be clear, I'm not sold on bringing Irving in. It would be exciting as hell but from a game standpoint I dont think he fits our roster. and I dont see him attracting other star players considering the Rumor mill circling why he wants out of Cleveland.